Our Current Coach Says Something Important

[damienc]

I know many on here have mixed feelings about Ratts.

Quite frankly IMO he’s hasn’t been steering the ship long enough to jump to a conclusion about him as the senior coach.

Anyway, putting that to one side his post match address in Sydney, included something important.

He said our skill levels, particularly our kicking was atrocious.

Then he said, players who’ve repeatedly shown they lack these skills will be moved on. Wow. That hasn’t been said before. Not actually getting rid of people.

My questions o all of you: Who is he talking about? Who are the worst offenders?

[WellardSaint]

Here's my take...
the ones who cannot kick reliably, but have trade value, might be
Acres
Webster (can kick long but often goes over a player's head or drops short to an opponent)
Newnes (actually, as an FA, he's been offered 2 years but he wants to see what other clubs might offer him hahaha)
Dunstan, his helicopter kicks are friggin awful, and he's been in the system long enough, why the F is he a rubbish kick

The statement might have been a public roasting to get them to work harder in the pre-season.
The List Manager will have a lot of input about who we'll offload, and it won't be purely on skill.
But I like the way he delivered the rocket.
Heck, I'd even trade Membrey, he can be good but when he misses, he is atrocious.

[saintsRrising]

Heck, I'd even trade Membrey, he can be good but when he misses, he is atrocious.

So apart from one bad season kicking wise, he has been a superb shot on goal. This year 44 Goals 17 Behinds.

At that was bad for him as at 34:28 it was still better than most players.
Career wise he is on 169:84

He is one of the most accurate at goal in the AFL, and yet you want to trade him in the forlorn hope of getting a better kick on goal, just because he sometimes misses?

We struggled for years to replace Hamill with another "third tall" and now we have a superb one we should give him up?

[Wayne42]

Keep Membrey, dump the GOPs.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Seb Ross.

Streaming into the forward line and missing Bruce by a large margin might have been exactly what Ratten was thinking of.

[saynta]

Here's my take...
the ones who cannot kick reliably, but have trade value, might be
Acres
Webster (can kick long but often goes over a player's head or drops short to an opponent)
Newnes (actually, as an FA, he's been offered 2 years but he wants to see what other clubs might offer him hahaha)
Dunstan, his helicopter kicks are friggin awful, and he's been in the system long enough, why the F is he a rubbish kick

The statement might have been a public roasting to get them to work harder in the pre-season.
The List Manager will have a lot of input about who we'll offload, and it won't be purely on skill.
But I like the way he delivered the rocket.
Heck, I'd even trade Membrey, he can be good but when he misses, he is atrocious.

Membrey is regarded as one of the best kicks in the AFL and has kicked nearly 90 goals in the past two seasons. So a big no from me.

[older saint]

Big statement but year after year of the worst conversion in the league nothing we dont know, we are just used to years of spin and dont be honest if it is negative.

Issue is who else will want players that cannot kick.

No co-incidence McKenzie only played 1 game under Ratten ( when others were ill ).

Don't agree with Dunstan comment, on the run perhaps so but weights kicks really well when has time.
Acres blazes away too much , Ross butches it , Steven the same( although will be gone) .
Thing is cant get rid of all of them so need to look what else they bring.

Ross and Dunstan find it a lot so keep.
Acres may be trade bait if Hill deal is done.
Several older players , Hayes i specifically remmeber talking about how good a kick Webster was, wonder if the Richo style hurt that? Although again a month in the reserves may mean bye bye.

Good kicking is great but no good if the guy can only get 10 possessions per game - remember Arryn Siposs or Daniel Healy?

[prwilkinson]

Everyone’s thinking it, really glad he said it. He’s spot on! If you can’t even do the basics you shouldn’t be here regardless if I’m coach or not next season... well put Ratts.

[B.M]

Dunstan is a woeful kick, he has a terrible kicking action.

[saynta]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... e1f447aa74

"Brett Ratten admits he’s fed up with the Saints’ sloppy skills — and players will be ‘moved out’ if they can’t kick the footy. Who should be worried?
Sam Edmund and Al Paton, Herald Sun

August 25, 2019 12:51pm


Caretaker St Kilda coach Brett Ratten has slammed his side’s skill level and put continued inability to hit targets on the table as the Saints assess their list.

Not for the first time this year St Kilda failed in front of goal, kicking 5.9 to halftime against Sydney and finishing with 8.16 to the Swans’ 17.7.

In a video to Saints members, Ratten, tipped to get the head coach role full-time, didn’t mince his words. “Honestly, I’ve only had the job for six weeks, but I’m actually getting a bit sick of talking about the missed opportunities,” Ratten said.

“Really, we had our chances.

“You’re 5.9 at halftime we could have been two to four goals up and we squandered that opportunity again.”

Ratten has finished 3-3 from his six games in charge and is considered the favourite to be appointed the full-time coach.

If he is given the job, he last night left no doubt as to what his priority would be.

“Overall, I thought our skill level was poor and that’s something we’ve got to address over summer,” Ratten said.

“We’ve got to train it harder, we’ve actually got to move players out who can’t execute and bring players in who can.

“That’s something we’ll focus on.”

Blake Acres had three kicks against the Swans and hit the target with one of them, Jack Newnes hit two targets from five attempts while Jack Steele, Jack Lonie, Luke Dunstan and Dan Hannebery all kicked at 50 per cent efficiency or worse.

Over the season Lonie, Hunter Clark, Jarryn Geary, Ben Paton and Dalton Langlands are all rated as “below average” kicks by Champion Data. The Saints’ best kicks are key-position players Josh Battle, Nathan Brown and Billy Longer, while Acres, Steele, Seb Ross, Nick Hind and Shane Savage are rated above average.

“We’ve had a really mixed year with performance, but we still won nine games of football.

“2019 is finished, we didn’t make finals, but that’s our goal in 2020 — to move up the ladder and do it as quickly as we can,” Ratten said."

[cwrcyn]

Dunstan hits about one in every five targets inside forward 50. Helicopter kicks, tumblers, and grubbers are a regular feature of his kicks to our forward line. He's a very good contested ball player, and has improved this year, but he's in the bottom 20% of league players when in comes to ball use by foot. Not far behind him is Jack Steele, who, although he kicks it reasonably straight, can't control the depth of his kicks, and then there's Seb Ross, who either nails it or kicks it way off target, usually because he fails to properly look where he's going to kick it. Seb Ross has scope to improve his kicking because it's mostly about decision making, but I just don't think the other two have it in them.

[saynta]

Dunstan hits about one in every five targets inside forward 50. Helicopter kicks, tumblers, and grubbers are a regular feature of his kicks to our forward line. He's a very good contested ball player, and has improved this year, but he's in the bottom 20% of league players when in comes to ball use by foot. Not far behind him is Jack Steele, who, although he kicks it reasonably straight, can't control the depth of his kicks, and then there's Seb Ross, who either nails it or kicks it way off target, usually because he fails to properly look where he's going to kick it. Seb Ross has scope to improve his kicking because it's mostly about decision making, but I just don't think the other two have it in them.

"Over the season Lonie, Hunter Clark, Jarryn Geary, Ben Paton and Dalton Langlands are all rated as “below average” kicks by Champion Data. The Saints’ best kicks are key-position players Josh Battle, Nathan Brown and Billy Longer, while Acres, Steele, Seb Ross, Nick Hind and Shane Savage are rated above average


From the article I posted above.

[Cordz2]

I know many on here have mixed feelings about Ratts.

Quite frankly IMO he’s hasn’t been steering the ship long enough to jump to a conclusion about him as the senior coach.

Anyway, putting that to one side his post match address in Sydney, included something important.

He said our skill levels, particularly our kicking was atrocious.

Then he said, players who’ve repeatedly shown they lack these skills will be moved on. Wow. That hasn’t been said before. Not actually getting rid of people.

My questions o all of you: Who is he talking about? Who are the worst offenders?

It’s almost tragic that it’s taken this long but I was so relieved to hear that. All aboard the Ratt train!

[freely]

I just don't get how anyone would want to employ a coach whose only suggestion is that we should get better players. Workman - tools, anyone?

[Goose is king]

For me, take the 2 year deal for Newnes off the table and tell him to move on.
Steven I’d let go but would prefer he stays but after his career we owe it to him. Period.
Only one of Ross and Dunstan can stay if we are serious and Dunstan has more upside so bye Ross.
I’m still a sucker for Acres and he wouldn’t get us much in a trade so I say one more year before a decision is made on him.

[poatina]

Gresham is an awful field kick, albeit an often impressive snap goal kick.
Lonie cannot kick more than 30 metres reliably. But he seems not to understand that, and so continues to take set shots beyond that distance without thought of passing it off .
Ross seems to have got the message at the same time Ratten came in as coach and his goal kicking and field kicking both improved almost immediately.
Acres is an unreliable kick.
Membery has strange misses, just seems to forget how sometimes. Usually good , but then inexplicably sprays it , badly .
The most reliable kick for goal under pressure seems to be Josh Bruce who is strangely unappreciated on this forum for reasons I cannot understand; he never stops trying,
Newnes is simply a waste of a set shot, as is Dunstan. It is a complete surprise if either nail a set shot .
Hinds should kick more, as should Parker if we ever see him again.
Gerry is adequate, which is a great improvement on what he was. Same as Steven.
Ed Phillips cannot kick , must go.
I wish McKenzie could kick because I like him as a player except for his rotten kicking.
Battle, Brown, Webster and Savage are all good kicks , all backmen. Carlisle is a good exponent of the 15 metre kick.
Long is a very good kick.
I fail to see the slightest difference the appointment of Dixon has made to anyone’s kicking style or effectiveness.

[SaintPav]

Heck, I'd even trade Membrey, he can be good but when he misses, he is atrocious.

Ya reckon?!

Keep up the good work.



Priceless.

[Special]

I’ve had enough of Acres.

He’s had 6 f****** seasons and we are STILL WONDERING IF HE WILL BE A PLAYER!!!!

This is ridiculous.

[seano1]

Acres is frustrating as for Dunstan I don’t mind his tumblers or helicopter kicks as some call them to me his strength is at the bottom of packs handballing it out or quick kicks to open it up for the runners to sprint off with and hopefully score or hit a target. Again this might highlight stats...if you have 30 looks good but if only 6 hit a target then that is poor return if you have 6 resulting in goals your a winner

[Yorkeys]

Langlands has played too few games to condemn his kicking. If we think Brett was pointing the finger when he highlighted mistakes when not under direct pressure and kicking for goal the suspects are Newnes, Lonie, Hind, Dunstan, Savage (?), Ross and maybe Sinclair. I think he rates Membrey - he put him in the middle a bit, his Saturday's inaccuracy was an aberration. Unfortunately Billings and Steele can miss targets at crucial times too - but that might be decision making/composure/exhaustion rather than technical skill. The few that you can usually mark down target hit before the release are Battle, Hannebery and very often Clark and Coffield. Another aspect is that our forwards and forward craft often produces small (as in margin for error) moving targets, quite often competing for the opportunity in near vicinity so the kicker is placed in two minds when that happens. But its good lack of skill has been called out and we all look forward to the new non negotiable being implemented. I wonder if we will know the new coach before Spring.

[The Recruit]

Players are
Jack steven - been doing it forever, turns the ball over all the time. We will be better for the trade.
Seb Ross - Kicks safe and not much creativity, plenty of turnovers by foot.
Dunstan - should only ever handball like McRae can’t kick under pressure
Geary- wow where do I start, tried hard but can’t kick.

Three of those guys above are our main ball winners which is a problem. Steven has to go and Ross is no better then a 3-4 best midfielder, not no. 1 or 2.
We will be better when Clarke, Gresh, Hanners, Steele and Bytel are our main men.

Newnes isn’t as bad as people say, doesn’t get it enough to affect the team, will probably be traded anyway for a compo pick.

Acres is a high risk player, that’s the way he plays, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t. If we don’t like that we need to move him on, he isn’t going to change.

Webster is a good kick but turns it over due to high risk high reward. Savage and him need to use Billings and Hill next year off half back for run and carry and elite ball use, not do it all themselves.

The rest are all ok for their positions....if we want to see what a high standard of ball use is, just watch Billings and Hanners, they are both elite.

[Zed]

The one positive that came out of the game was the press conference and coaches message

The fact that lack of skill has been called out , and now we are talking about it, hopefully means our hierarchy are also talking about it.

I doubt the mistakes of the past can be fixed in one preseason, but at least now we might see an improvement next year in general skill execution.

[terry smith rules]

I hate this by Ratten.

He is a caretaker coach only at this stage, not his position to discuss future tactics

Secondly what has he been doing for the last 9 months as forwards coach to try and improve skills

Poor form.

[mad saint guy]

I've been harping on about this since Clint Jones became a regular in the 22. We haven't been a skillful side since 2006. The most basic skill of the game is kicking the football. It's why Hawthorn have been so successful. They don't mind if a player is athletically limited if they make good decisions and execute with the ball. We have been recruiting athletes who can't get the ball, make bad decisions with it and can't kick it well since the early 2000s. I was so happy when we took Billings, Gresham and Clark because those three are actually intelligent, skillful and inventive ball users. It's why I'm a big fan of Wilkie and Hind as well. Geary embodies the Richo era so well; a tough, uncompromising athlete with B grade ammo level skills. Our next leaders need to provide more than effort.

[freely]

I was so happy when we took Billings, Gresham and Clark because those three are actually intelligent, skillful and inventive ball users. It's why I'm a big fan of Wilkie and Hind as well. Geary embodies the Richo era so well; a tough, uncompromising athlete with B grade ammo level skills. Our next leaders need to provide more than effort.

Er I don't think Richo had much to do with the recruitment of Geary. Those other blokes you mention though...