I hate to say it but the path that our new List Manager has taken..........

[ListManager]

..........can only end in tears. He has cut Freeman and Goddard just when they finally got their bodies right. Short sighted and silly decision. He got rid of Wright and Minch yet they have both showed glimpses. Why? And more importantly, now we have all these spots open that will be filled with cast offs like Kent or filled with picks in the 70's and above. Is Kent going to be better than Freeman? I doubt it. He is doing this because he wants St Kilda to be better next year but ultimately we will be worse in the long run.

I would have made moves that may keep us in the bottom 6 for another couple of years (in order to scum up more prized top end picks), that would give us a real crack at winning the flag between 2022 and 2026. Instead of rebuilding from the top of the list I would have concentrated on rebuilding the list from the bottom.

The 2 most significant moves I would make are,,,,,,,1. Trade Jack Steven this year to Geelong for their first pick (pick 11 overall). Then next year I would Trade Jake Carlisle for a pick as near to the top 10 as possible. So this year we would go to the draft with picks 4 and 11. Providing we nail those picks then we would have 2 gun mids with around 70 games under their belts come 2022. Assuming we finish 14th next year that gives us pick 5 plus Carlisles pick say 11. Nail those picks and we have another 2 gum mids with around 50 games under their belts come 2022. Add them to Clark and Coffield and that's 6 gun mids ready to go come 2022. Then you have Gresham, Sinclair, Ross, Acres, Steele, Freeman, Billings, Long, Phillips etc etc.

What our List Manager has done is maybe made us more competitive next year by signing Hanners and Kent and maybe even Wingard but overall he has consigned us to finishing middle of the ladder which means that we miss out on the high end draft picks and we will not be a serious threat for the flag for another 5 years and by then we will be forced to start the rebuild again.

The only way out of the twilight zone is to drink deep in the draft for 3 or 4 years before loading up. We are in this predicament because Richo actually coached too well and we didn't stay down long enough to drink deep enough. So now we must cash in Steven this year and Carlisle next year.

[BenLong#21]

Wright is 24.
What has he shown glimpses of?
His tatts?

[stonecold]

Glad your not our list manager!!!!!

[ausfatcat]

Glad your not our list manager!!!!!

very glad recipe for disaster there

[bigred]

You are talking full rebuild and resigning us to four more years in the bottom four. I don't think we are there yet. If we went down that road anyway, it could be the end of us.

Just as a point, Wright has barely been at fringe level. Goddard was a big bust unfortunately.

Trading Carlisle is just plain dumb.I mean, really, really dumb. REALLY dumb.

Trading Steven for pick 11 is not good enough. Even entertaining that number is trolling.

Stop being lazy and go back to the table and make those other clubs earn it. Get two picks in the top twenty for Steven at least. One of those should at least be top tennish. If Geelong want him they can pay for him.

Your second last paragraph is just plain wrong. They are reinforcing the midfield and at this point it is really just adding some depth. We have some serious deficiencies. I would expect some turnover. Kent vs Freeman, sorry but Kent has runs on the board, Freeman has none. Your argument there is purely speculative on Freeman achieving anything. Personally I think we gave him plenty of time. Many will disagree, but it is what it is.

I am not completely sold on Hanner's. At his best, he is a contested ball BEAST and massive runner. A huge win for us. At worst we cant get him on the park and everyone is telling us they told us so. We are shockingly one paced and our inside mids, while many can find the pill they are butchers or too slow. This guy is a very, very good footballer.

If we trade or use our fist pick this year is simply must be on a line breaking pacey mid that can find their own ball. The BEST way right now would to be someone tried and true... Such as Shiel. If we end up taking it to the draft and use it on a key posi or ruckman then we are being run by buffoons and we should get the pitchforks out. I mean, quite literally we should rock up at Linton street with Pitchforks and lit torches.

We should be shopping players though and I daresay we are. Guys like Dunstan, Newnes and some others of that ilk should be used to get us back into the second and third round of this draft. I would also expect some more of our future picks will be used to secure Hannebery, King and one or two others.

Our list needs some tuning, some class and work ethic. It is not terrible, but it went backwards in 2018.

Then there is the game plan.

[WellardSaint]

One area where we seem to be rubbish is
Player Development.

Regardless of picks, we can't nurture them and make them any good.

[Barneysaint]

Stupid post. Why trade Carlisle?he holds up our defence. Crazy. He's 27 by end of year. 28 by the time you want to trade him. Seriously? Glad you're not our list manager freeman had to go. Kent has played 6 years and played many more games and is tough and hard. Freeman body won't hold up to the rigours of afl football. He's slow now. He was traded for his pace which he doest have anymore.

[supersaints2]

Some crazy ideas ...

Why would you you trade out our best player in Steven (besides and as I've posted before Geelong cannot trade their first round pick in the next draft because of the five year rule they've traded out too many )

Carlisle is too valuable at CHB he's currently the glue that hold it together...take him and Steven out the side for the year we would probably not win more than two games

The club believes we lack leadership and experience and you want to throw what little we have out? Look at the Chasm Roo and Joey leaving left us in

And what the hell makes you think we can " nail our draft picks ????) Draft picks are an unknown quantity , we should know .... we're not great at nailing the best available .. some poor low round pick players floating around in the AFL

[prwilkinson]

Trade our 2 best players? Nah.

Kent isn’t exactly a cast off. He was in Melbourne’s best 22 heading into September and was cruelled by injury.

You know, St Kilda actually won the key statistics in a lot of matches this year but still lost by 4-5 goals. Our biggest losing margin for the year was only 54 points. That suggests to me that there’s still a bit there, they just need to be developed and coached better. Hence the complete overhaul of the footy department.

Hold onto your plums for one more season before declaring full rebuild time.

[Yorkeys]

Son of Pelchen? What could possibly go wrong.

[Ghost Like]

Utter nonsense in my opinion, we are always building, every club is, the idea is to plan, identify and fill holes by trading & drafting. If we were to look ahead to 2020 & 2021, Steven & Carlisle are keys in ability & experience.

B: Webster Austin White
HB: Coffield Carlisle Roberton
C: Clark Steele Billings
HF: Membrey Battle Long
F: Gresham Bruce Kent
R: ??? Hannerbury Steven
IC: Marshall Ross Acres (Pick #4 - 2018)

*** Edited, Acres in for Paton. Paton, Long, Kent are a little interchangeable.

Obviously this is fluid and will change with some trades, FA and drafts but if done correctly all those will be improvements. The above is hopefully our worst possible team...exciting times ahead, let's be positive that if a simpleton like me can see a plan then the ones who do it for a living should nail it, our list is not all doom & gloom.

[prwilkinson]

Utter nonsense in my opinion, we are always building, every club is, the idea is to plan, identify and fill holes by trading & drafting. If we were to look ahead to 2020 & 2021, Steven & Carlisle are keys in ability & experience.

B: Webster Austin White
HB: Coffield Carlisle Roberton
C: Clark Steele Billings
HF: Membrey Battle Long
F: Gresham Bruce Kent
R: ??? Hannerbury Steven
IC: Marshall Ross Paton (Pick #4 - 2018)

Obviously this is fluid and will change with some trades, FA and drafts but if done correctly all those will be improvements. The above is hopefully our worst possible team...exciting times ahead, let's be positive that if a simpleton like me can see a plan then the ones who do it for a living should nail it, our list is not all doom & gloom.

+1

[samuraisaint]

Utter nonsense in my opinion, we are always building, every club is, the idea is to plan, identify and fill holes by trading & drafting. If we were to look ahead to 2020 & 2021, Steven & Carlisle are keys in ability & experience.

B: Webster Austin White
HB: Coffield Carlisle Roberton
C: Clark Steele Billings
HF: Membrey Battle Long
F: Gresham Bruce Kent
R: ??? Hannerbury Steven
IC: Marshall Ross Paton (Pick #4 - 2018)

Obviously this is fluid and will change with some trades, FA and drafts but if done correctly all those will be improvements. The above is hopefully our worst possible team...exciting times ahead, let's be positive that if a simpleton like me can see a plan then the ones who do it for a living should nail it, our list is not all doom & gloom.

I don't think White will even last 'til the end of the end of the trade period. Let's be honest, if he wasn't getting a game this year (what'd he play - one game?) then he will be traded or delisted. And if I was him, if I wasn't traded or delisted, I'd be requesting a trade.
I gather by your team selection that you think Lonie will be traded this year and that McCartin won't be playing by 2020? Where do you see those guys going?
Did Paton show more than Pierce this year? I think Pierce is finally starting to show something. Do you think Pierce will be delisted this year?

[Junior]

Stopped reading at Wright has shown glimpses.

[derby Street]

..........can only end in tears. He has cut Freeman and Goddard just when they finally got their bodies right. Short sighted and silly decision. He got rid of Wright and Minch yet they have both showed glimpses. Why? And more importantly, now we have all these spots open that will be filled with cast offs like Kent or filled with picks in the 70's and above. Is Kent going to be better than Freeman? I doubt it. He is doing this because he wants St Kilda to be better next year but ultimately we will be worse in the long run.

I would have made moves that may keep us in the bottom 6 for another couple of years (in order to scum up more prized top end picks), that would give us a real crack at winning the flag between 2022 and 2026. Instead of rebuilding from the top of the list I would have concentrated on rebuilding the list from the bottom.

The 2 most significant moves I would make are,,,,,,,1. Trade Jack Steven this year to Geelong for their first pick (pick 11 overall). Then next year I would Trade Jake Carlisle for a pick as near to the top 10 as possible. So this year we would go to the draft with picks 4 and 11. Providing we nail those picks then we would have 2 gun mids with around 70 games under their belts come 2022. Assuming we finish 14th next year that gives us pick 5 plus Carlisles pick say 11. Nail those picks and we have another 2 gum mids with around 50 games under their belts come 2022. Add them to Clark and Coffield and that's 6 gun mids ready to go come 2022. Then you have Gresham, Sinclair, Ross, Acres, Steele, Freeman, Billings, Long, Phillips etc etc.

What our List Manager has done is maybe made us more competitive next year by signing Hanners and Kent and maybe even Wingard but overall he has consigned us to finishing middle of the ladder which means that we miss out on the high end draft picks and we will not be a serious threat for the flag for another 5 years and by then we will be forced to start the rebuild again.

The only way out of the twilight zone is to drink deep in the draft for 3 or 4 years before loading up. We are in this predicament because Richo actually coached too well and we didn't stay down long enough to drink deep enough. So now we must cash in Steven this year and Carlisle next year.

Go back and have another good hard think about the above. It doesn't make much sense.Of course you do realise that Geelong cannot trade this years first round pick?

[samuraisaint]

Trade our 2 best players? Nah.

Kent isn’t exactly a cast off. He was in Melbourne’s best 22 heading into September and was cruelled by injury.

You know, St Kilda actually won the key statistics in a lot of matches this year but still lost by 4-5 goals. Our biggest losing margin for the year was only 54 points. That suggests to me that there’s still a bit there, they just need to be developed and coached better. Hence the complete overhaul of the footy department.

Hold onto your plums for one more season before declaring full rebuild time.

71 versus the Swans

[Ghost Like]

Only my opinion samurai, like I said, our worst possible team come that time. We can all single out individual players and make pros & cons for them. Then when the dust settles we still have the same list.
For me, that's my look to the future.
Paton & Pierce are different players, put Pierce where the ??? are.
Richo took White to one of the finals so dialogue is open there and has a plan for him. Geary is currently in White's spot so opportunity is limited to a degree.
I do believe Lonie is likely to move on.
I believe Paddy will be best served going to another club and that may be a win for us.
As with Newnes, Dunstan etc.
We also have a lot of other players who may develop and go past the above plus future draft picks we don't even know yet.
Like I said, my opinion, some which will be proven wrong in time but from where I sit, the future is not that bleak.
One player I did forget to include was Acres, I think best 22 and a key to the future. Apologies Blake.

[prwilkinson]

Trade our 2 best players? Nah.

Kent isn’t exactly a cast off. He was in Melbourne’s best 22 heading into September and was cruelled by injury.

You know, St Kilda actually won the key statistics in a lot of matches this year but still lost by 4-5 goals. Our biggest losing margin for the year was only 54 points. That suggests to me that there’s still a bit there, they just need to be developed and coached better. Hence the complete overhaul of the footy department.

Hold onto your plums for one more season before declaring full rebuild time.

71 versus the Swans

Missed that one. Remains a valid point though. Highly competitive for long periods of matches without converting. I can’t recall a watching any footy team that’s had to work as hard to convert as this team. But throwing the baby out with the bath water would be the worst thing we can do.

Overhaul the coaching department and restructuring how we bring the ball forward hopefully will make a considerable difference next season.

[ListManager]

Fair enough, nobody agrees with me. That's fine. I hope you are all correct and the path chosen by our new List Manager gets us that second flag but I seriously doubt it will. If it goes the way I think it will then you will seee St Kilda in full rebuild mode as soon as 2020 and not later than 2022. Time will tell.

[sunsaint]

I dont think what you wrote that unreasonable - at least you added points of further discussion
JS was thinking about his future at the end of the year and was concerned enough to raise issues
JC - is serviceable but needs a big bodied AA player next to him to shine as he did with Hurley at EFC

really really surprised no one came out swinging for Paddy tho

[Moods]

I genuinely thought the OP was a piss take. I'm still not sure it isn't.

[Harvey To Hayes]

Glad your not our list manager!!!!!

Beat me to it

[skeptic]

Fair enough, nobody agrees with me. That's fine. I hope you are all correct and the path chosen by our new List Manager gets us that second flag but I seriously doubt it will. If it goes the way I think it will then you will seee St Kilda in full rebuild mode as soon as 2020 and not later than 2022. Time will tell.

Agree with the part about not liking our current direction.

Didn’t really like your suggestions... you’d be the first person I know of that hasn’t made a call on Wright. I don’t really understand a plan that involves trading your best players for picks that may become your best players.

Don’t need to get snippy about it though

[mightysainters]

Surely OP is taking the Mickey.. trade our two best players for a couple of pick 10’s..

[BenLong#21]

Utter nonsense in my opinion, we are always building, every club is, the idea is to plan, identify and fill holes by trading & drafting. If we were to look ahead to 2020 & 2021, Steven & Carlisle are keys in ability & experience.

B: Webster Austin White
HB: Coffield Carlisle Roberton
C: Clark Steele Billings
HF: Membrey Battle Long
F: Gresham Bruce Kent
R: ??? Hannerbury Steven
IC: Marshall Ross Acres (Pick #4 - 2018)

*** Edited, Acres in for Paton. Paton, Long, Kent are a little interchangeable.

Obviously this is fluid and will change with some trades, FA and drafts but if done correctly all those will be improvements. The above is hopefully our worst possible team...exciting times ahead, let's be positive that if a simpleton like me can see a plan then the ones who do it for a living should nail it, our list is not all doom & gloom.

Looking ahead to 2020, 2021. Always we will be good in 3 years. 3 years. 3 years. 3 years.
LOL.

One flag in 120 years
33% wins in the last 5 years

Besides blind hope there is no reason to think 2020-2021 will be any better than now
Other clubs wont just lie down and let us go past them.