Preseason Analysis

[Beno88]

Well that’s the preseason done and dusted. In two weeks the real stuff begins. Our preseason ended with a 1-1 AFLX record and two moderate losses in the JLT Series. What can we take from those hit outs?

Despite the general consensus on this forum, there were some huge positives to take out of the preseason.

Nick Coffield and Hunter Clark are readymade footballers. Both showed fantastic composure at the top level and used the ball very well. Clark picked up 20 disposals at 89% efficiency across both games and slotted 3 goals from five shots, while Coffield amassed 37 disposals at 71% efficiency and proved to be an excellent link out of the back half with 8 rebounds out of the defensive 50. It’s a huge step up from practice match to the real deal, but these two kids seem good enough already.

David Armitage’s return to senior footy has been a welcome one, he seems to shaken off his groin problems and played almost 100% game time last night. His contested ball work was badly missed last season. Paddy McCartin is back and without dominating games he has still been building nicely. With better delivery I see Paddy having a very strong 2018. Jack Steven running at full pace is a sight for sore eyes. His form has been excellent and at full fitness he could be the vital midfield leader that takes us into the eight this season.

Shane Savage has begun 2018 the way he finished 2017, continuing to be our most damaging running player. His metres gained were by far the most in both games and his ability to break lines was vital to our forward entries. I also liked the way Blake Acres looked in both games, 2018 could be his year.

From an overall team perspective there’s been a number positives from the early hitouts. Our key midfielders have picked up solid game time and vastly improved their run and spread from game to game. In JLT1 we were beaten in the uncontested possession count (-7) however in JLT2 we were +60. A huge improvement. The contested ball was relatively even in both games however the clearances only fell in our favour when Billy was in the ruck. His ability to give us first use is grossly underrated by many Saints supporters. In JLT1 we won the hitout count, in JLT2 we lost it by 19, albeit against a fine ruckman. If fit, Billy Longer has to be the first choice ruckman going into round one. Beyond Billy, I really like the way Rowan Marshall is progressing.

Our ability to work our way back into both contests after poor starts was encouraging, after quarter time we outscored our opposition in both games. However, that highlights how poor our starts were. While I must admit, in 20 years of playing footy I never got overly fired up before a practice match, but this is something the team will need to address before round one. The lack of solid defending in both first quarters was ugly, but more often than not we were caught out by turning the ball over in our forward half, giving the defenders little chance of being in position. In the real stuff I'm sure we'd push men back and stop the flow.

Our ball use overall wasn’t too bad, 74% across both JLT games is right on league average, which isn’t bad given its March. Like much of 2017, our skills let us down in the forward half, particularly early in both games. In terms of forward 50 entry to score conversion, we averaged just 39%. That must improve if the three talls set up is going to work. It’s just asking too much of the key forwards and the crumbers if you’re going to butcher the footy going inside 50. This must be the main target for improvement from the preseason.

One area we all hoped to see significant improvement was goal kicking. We managed 23.22 across both JLT games. I was hoping to see better than 51%, but it is only early days and conditions were difficult in JLT1.

Overall, we come out of the preseason with no significant injuries, no reports, and two solid hitouts. There are some obvious areas for improvement (first quarters, forward 50 entries) but there’s certainly no reason for alarm.

My Round 1 Team

B : Geary – Brown – Roberton
HB : Webster – Carlisle – Savage
C : Newnes – Armitage – Sinclair
HF : Billings – Bruce – Acres
F : Gresham – McCartin – Membrey
R : Longer – Steven – Ross
I : Steele – Dunstan – Coffield – Clark

E : Stevens – Gilbert – White - Hickey

[parkeysainter]

Top review.

Agree with everything. We WILL be ready for Rd 1. I reckon we will win the first 2 games comfortably. I posted the below in another thread:



Pleasing aspects from praccie games in no particular order:

-Armo and Paddy are fit, injury free, moving well and got plenty of the footy (if they keep going its like having 2 new players to select every week compared to last year)
-Savage is looking like having a big year
-Seb Ross ops normal and another big year
-More improvement in Steele, Billings, Acres and Gresham (our young guns)
-Despite a very minor injury, Jack Steven looks like he did in 2016
-Got plenty of game time and minutes into the top two picks (the recruiters nailed those selections). They really look the goods.
-Goal kicking last night was a major positive
-The majority of our best players are fit and in form getting lots of touches

Yeah, we lost a couple of meaningless praccie game by 3 or 4 goals, but its not the end of the world. We dominated the Carlton game after the initial 4 goal burst and were just as good as Melbourne most the game despite their first quarter burst. We could have won both games, but its not important as praccie matches are there to try new things and players, gain some touch and fitness whilst ignoring the scoreboard. If they were real games then things would have been done differently in the coaches box and on the field. Anyone with half an ounce of a footy brain or has played can tell you that.

Anyway, the Saints WILL be ready for Rd 1. I reckon we will win both of our first games comfortably.

[Con Gorozidis]

Two first games against the two bottom sides.
Cool bro.

[saynta]

Well that’s the preseason done and dusted. In two weeks the real stuff begins. Our preseason ended with a 1-1 AFLX record and two moderate losses in the JLT Series. What can we take from those hit outs?

Despite the general consensus on this forum, there were some huge positives to take out of the preseason.

Nick Coffield and Hunter Clark are readymade footballers. Both showed fantastic composure at the top level and used the ball very well. Clark picked up 20 disposals at 89% efficiency across both games and slotted 3 goals from five shots, while Coffield amassed 37 disposals at 71% efficiency and proved to be an excellent link out of the back half with 8 rebounds out of the defensive 50. It’s a huge step up from practice match to the real deal, but these two kids seem good enough already.

David Armitage’s return to senior footy has been a welcome one, he seems to shaken off his groin problems and played almost 100% game time last night. His contested ball work was badly missed last season. Paddy McCartin is back and without dominating games he has still been building nicely. With better delivery I see Paddy having a very strong 2018. Jack Steven running at full pace is a sight for sore eyes. His form has been excellent and at full fitness he could be the vital midfield leader that takes us into the eight this season.

Shane Savage has begun 2018 the way he finished 2017, continuing to be our most damaging running player. His metres gained were by far the most in both games and his ability to break lines was vital to our forward entries. I also liked the way Blake Acres looked in both games, 2018 could be his year.

From an overall team perspective there’s been a number positives from the early hitouts. Our key midfielders have picked up solid game time and vastly improved their run and spread from game to game. In JLT1 we were beaten in the uncontested possession count (-7) however in JLT2 we were +60. A huge improvement. The contested ball was relatively even in both games however the clearances only fell in our favour when Billy was in the ruck. His ability to give us first use is grossly underrated by many Saints supporters. In JLT1 we won the hitout count, in JLT2 we lost it by 19, albeit against a fine ruckman. If fit, Billy Longer has to be the first choice ruckman going into round one. Beyond Billy, I really like the way Rowan Marshall is progressing.

Our ability to work our way back into both contests after poor starts was encouraging, after quarter time we outscored our opposition in both games. However, that highlights how poor our starts were. While I must admit, in 20 years of playing footy I never got overly fired up before a practice match, but this is something the team will need to address before round one. The lack of solid defending in both first quarters was ugly, but more often than not we were caught out by turning the ball over in our forward half, giving the defenders little chance of being in position. In the real stuff I'm sure we'd push men back and stop the flow.

Our ball use overall wasn’t too bad, 74% across both JLT games is right on league average, which isn’t bad given its March. Like much of 2017, our skills let us down in the forward half, particularly early in both games. In terms of forward 50 entry to score conversion, we averaged just 39%. That must improve if the three talls set up is going to work. It’s just asking too much of the key forwards and the crumbers if you’re going to butcher the footy going inside 50. This must be the main target for improvement from the preseason.

One area we all hoped to see significant improvement was goal kicking. We managed 23.22 across both JLT games. I was hoping to see better than 51%, but it is only early days and conditions were difficult in JLT1.

Overall, we come out of the preseason with no significant injuries, no reports, and two solid hitouts. There are some obvious areas for improvement (first quarters, forward 50 entries) but there’s certainly no reason for alarm.

My Round 1 Team

B : Geary – Brown – Roberton
HB : Webster – Carlisle – Savage
C : Newnes – Armitage – Sinclair
HF : Billings – Bruce – Acres
F : Gresham – McCartin – Membrey
R : Longer – Steven – Ross
I : Steele – Dunstan – Coffield – Clark

E : Stevens – Gilbert – White - Hickey

Excellent post mate.

[Linton Lodger]

Good analysis.

[Vazelos]

Excellent analysis and cant argue with your Round 1 team either.

[terry smith rules]

Great op and the team looks about right

I do have a ? On Webster and I would replace him with #19. Gilbert for me gets a game Tall tackling line breaker who can ruck has more options than Jimmy

[DJ Higgins]

Firstly Good positive post
I would have a few changes to your team and that would be Coffield and Clark. They played OK in the pre-season but I always worry about bringing kids straight in rather than thru the vfl. Definitely pros and cons for doing either but I prefer to give them a taste of a real vfl game and then an AFL one later to show how hard vfl is and then the step up needed for AFL
Although Gilbo can be inaccurate with his field kicking we need some experience out there with a young team and I think his experience would out weigh his kicking somewhere in the vicinity of where he was aiming.

[tony74]

Experimented quite a lot and got some game time into some newbies. Also Juice and Jack will be better for the run. Coaches weren’t happy yesterday and I can assure you they didn’t follow the game plan in the first half. Long bombs into the arc is NOT the instruction. Last quarter was a bit more experimentation.
Also it’s worth noting that clubs/ players are required to have some time off before the season starts. Most clubs haven’t, we have.

[felix]

[quote="Beno88"]Well that’s the preseason done and dusted. In two weeks the real stuff begins. Our preseason ended with a 1-1 AFLX record and two moderate losses in the JLT Series. What can we take from those hit outs?

Despite the general consensus on this forum, there were some huge positives to take out of the preseason.

Nick Coffield and Hunter Clark are readymade footballers. Both showed fantastic composure at the top level and used the ball very well. Clark picked up 20 disposals at 89% efficiency across both games and slotted 3 goals from five shots, while Coffield amassed 37 disposals at 71% efficiency and proved to be an excellent link out of the back half with 8 rebounds out of the defensive 50. It’s a huge step up from practice match to the real deal, but these two kids seem good enough already.

David Armitage’s return to senior footy has been a welcome one, he seems to shaken off his groin problems and played almost 100% game time last night. His contested ball work was badly missed last season. Paddy McCartin is back and without dominating games he has still been building nicely. With better delivery I see Paddy having a very strong 2018. Jack Steven running at full pace is a sight for sore eyes. His form has been excellent and at full fitness he could be the vital midfield leader that takes us into the eight this season.

Shane Savage has begun 2018 the way he finished 2017, continuing to be our most damaging running player. His metres gained were by far the most in both games and his ability to break lines was vital to our forward entries. I also liked the way Blake Acres looked in both games, 2018 could be his year.

From an overall team perspective there’s been a number positives from the early hitouts. Our key midfielders have picked up solid game time and vastly improved their run and spread from game to game. In JLT1 we were beaten in the uncontested possession count (-7) however in JLT2 we were +60. A huge improvement. The contested ball was relatively even in both games however the clearances only fell in our favour when Billy was in the ruck. His ability to give us first use is grossly underrated by many Saints supporters. In JLT1 we won the hitout count, in JLT2 we lost it by 19, albeit against a fine ruckman. If fit, Billy Longer has to be the first choice ruckman going into round one. Beyond Billy, I really like the way Rowan Marshall is progressing.

Our ability to work our way back into both contests after poor starts was encouraging, after quarter time we outscored our opposition in both games. However, that highlights how poor our starts were. While I must admit, in 20 years of playing footy I never got overly fired up before a practice match, but this is something the team will need to address before round one. The lack of solid defending in both first quarters was ugly, but more often than not we were caught out by turning the ball over in our forward half, giving the defenders little chance of being in position. In the real stuff I'm sure we'd push men back and stop the flow.

Our ball use overall wasn’t too bad, 74% across both JLT games is right on league average, which isn’t bad given its March. Like much of 2017, our skills let us down in the forward half, particularly early in both games. In terms of forward 50 entry to score conversion, we averaged just 39%. That must improve if the three talls set up is going to work. It’s just asking too much of the key forwards and the crumbers if you’re going to butcher the footy going inside 50. This must be the main target for improvement from the preseason.

One area we all hoped to see significant improvement was goal kicking. We managed 23.22 across both JLT games. I was hoping to see better than 51%, but it is only early days and conditions were difficult in JLT1.

Overall, we come out of the preseason with no significant injuries, no reports, and two solid hitouts. There are some obvious areas for improvement (first quarters, forward 50 entries) but there’s certainly no reason for alarm.

My Round 1 Team

B : Geary – Brown – Roberton
HB : Webster – Carlisle – Savage
C : Newnes – Armitage – Sinclair
HF : Billings – Bruce – Acres
F : Gresham – McCartin – Membrey
R : Longer – Steven – Ross
I : Steele – Dunstan – Coffield – Clark

E : Stevens – Gilbert – White - Hickey[/quote


What ??? No Lonie , Gilbert and wheller, no whipping boys in your team at all.

[Bruce G McAbee]

I would play Marshall, he is a better option for Longer or Hickey's back up ruckman on the day. Plus Bruce played a whole lot better when he wasn't doubling up in the ruck. That hasn't worked for the last 2-3 seasons. Plus Marshall can go forward and can mark plus is very mobile.
Yes these were practice matches and for me it was a little disturbing to see the same problems we had last year still there, but, I will wait until after the first two rounds against teams we should beat, especially at Etihad.

[Stephen Theodore]

Positive Post, I love it Beno 88

[The Real Numpty]

My Round 1 Team

B : Geary – Brown – Roberton
HB : Webster – Carlisle – Savage
C : Newnes – Armitage – Sinclair
HF : Billings – Bruce – Acres
F : Gresham – McCartin – Membrey
R : Longer – Steven – Ross
I : Steele – Dunstan – Coffield – Clark

E : Stevens – Gilbert – White - Hickey

After consulting with my great friend and fellow patriot James Mattis, that team would be wright if you include White. White is wright, believe me! James Mattis also wants the Marshall and the Gilbert in to ruck. So Coffield out for now, and Longer. FIRED!!! Then, there will be winning. So much winning, and nobody knows so much winning like I do, believe me. #makingsomuchwinninggreatagain

[parkeysainter]

My Round 1 Team

B : Geary – Brown – Roberton
HB : Webster – Carlisle – Savage
C : Newnes – Armitage – Sinclair
HF : Billings – Bruce – Acres
F : Gresham – McCartin – Membrey
R : Longer – Steven – Ross
I : Steele – Dunstan – Coffield – Clark

E : Stevens – Gilbert – White - Hickey

After consulting with my great friend and fellow patriot James Mattis, that team would be wright if you include White. White is wright, believe me! James Mattis also wants the Marshall and the Gilbert in to ruck. So Coffield out for now, and Longer. FIRED!!! Then, there will be winning. So much winning, and nobody knows so much winning like I do, believe me. #makingsomuchwinninggreatagain

Dear Numpty, thanks for the being the only US President that has had the skills, determination and balls to stop the NK's from continuing their nuclear weapons program. All in your 1st term and year as POTUS! You have made the Korean Peninsula great again and brought peace to those lands!
Even Paul Keating agrees that you are great at foreign diplomacy!
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/amp.can ... 4z3mh.html

[Linton Lodger]

Experimented quite a lot and got some game time into some newbies. Also Juice and Jack will be better for the run. Coaches weren’t happy yesterday and I can assure you they didn’t follow the game plan in the first half. Long bombs into the arc is NOT the instruction. Last quarter was a bit more experimentation.
Also it’s worth noting that clubs/ players are required to have some time off before the season starts. Most clubs haven’t, we have.

So I take it we're a tad behind most Clubs in preparation? Which is precisely the way it has looked.

[Drake Huggins]

Experimented quite a lot and got some game time into some newbies. Also Juice and Jack will be better for the run. Coaches weren’t happy yesterday and I can assure you they didn’t follow the game plan in the first half. Long bombs into the arc is NOT the instruction. Last quarter was a bit more experimentation.
Also it’s worth noting that clubs/ players are required to have some time off before the season starts. Most clubs haven’t, we have.

So I take it we're a tad behind most Clubs in preparation? Which is precisely the way it has looked.

Just like last year. Any danger we could hit the ground running for a change? Cost us in the first two rounds last year. If we drop our first two this year, it'll be a disaster.

[Linton Lodger]

Experimented quite a lot and got some game time into some newbies. Also Juice and Jack will be better for the run. Coaches weren’t happy yesterday and I can assure you they didn’t follow the game plan in the first half. Long bombs into the arc is NOT the instruction. Last quarter was a bit more experimentation.
Also it’s worth noting that clubs/ players are required to have some time off before the season starts. Most clubs haven’t, we have.

So I take it we're a tad behind most Clubs in preparation? Which is precisely the way it has looked.

Just like last year. Any danger we could hit the ground running for a change? Cost us in the first two rounds last year. If we drop our first two this year, it'll be a disaster.

All that matters is how we front up Round 1.

Agreed that we appeared to be underdone in the first two last season and that two losses first up would be a disaster. If that occurred, for once some of the anguished here may actually have cause for their rants.

I think Tony74 is indicating the most other teams' players will have a break prior to Round 1, whilst we've done that and will be working through. Doesn't mean we won't be ready Round 1. Richo seemed to indicate that he was happy with our conditioning over the summer in his Presser.

[santazzi]

Experimented quite a lot and got some game time into some newbies. Also Juice and Jack will be better for the run. Coaches weren’t happy yesterday and I can assure you they didn’t follow the game plan in the first half. Long bombs into the arc is NOT the instruction. Last quarter was a bit more experimentation.
Also it’s worth noting that clubs/ players are required to have some time off before the season starts. Most clubs haven’t, we have.

So I take it we're a tad behind most Clubs in preparation? Which is precisely the way it has looked.

T74, if taking time of before preseason is a requirement, how is it that other clubs manage to circumvent that requirement? Any penalties?

[Linton Lodger]

Experimented quite a lot and got some game time into some newbies. Also Juice and Jack will be better for the run. Coaches weren’t happy yesterday and I can assure you they didn’t follow the game plan in the first half. Long bombs into the arc is NOT the instruction. Last quarter was a bit more experimentation.
Also it’s worth noting that clubs/ players are required to have some time off before the season starts. Most clubs haven’t, we have.

So I take it we're a tad behind most Clubs in preparation? Which is precisely the way it has looked.

T74, if taking time of before preseason is a requirement, how is it that other clubs manage to circumvent that requirement? Any penalties?

There not circumventing, I understood that they will take their breaks.

[Moods]

Experimented quite a lot and got some game time into some newbies. Also Juice and Jack will be better for the run. Coaches weren’t happy yesterday and I can assure you they didn’t follow the game plan in the first half. Long bombs into the arc is NOT the instruction. Last quarter was a bit more experimentation.
Also it’s worth noting that clubs/ players are required to have some time off before the season starts. Most clubs haven’t, we have.

Cheers Tony. Always appreciate the insight

[Moods]

Experimented quite a lot and got some game time into some newbies. Also Juice and Jack will be better for the run. Coaches weren’t happy yesterday and I can assure you they didn’t follow the game plan in the first half. Long bombs into the arc is NOT the instruction. Last quarter was a bit more experimentation.
Also it’s worth noting that clubs/ players are required to have some time off before the season starts. Most clubs haven’t, we have.

Cheers Tony. Always appreciate the insight

[Moods]

I would like to see the team defend better in transition after turnovers. Always difficult I know, but the way we set up seems to leave us massively exposed and teams just run the ball down the ground at will.

Did Mav Weller play last night? I don't recall seeing him.

I guess it could be argued if young Marshall hadn't of dropped that pudding in the middle of the ground in the last quarter we may have been a chance to win the game. It seemed to sap all the momentum we were gaining.

My biggest concern and I've said it for 10 years. I don't think I can recall a Saints team playing great footy when Roo wasn't in the team and playing well. When Roo played well the whole team seemed to function as intended. Even in 2010 when we came within a whisker of jagging a flag. None of those wins we had when Roo was out injured were pretty. They were ALL ugly. We didn't look anything like a contender until Roo came back in. His constant running put backs out of position and created space. He drew defenders and allowed others into the game. He was a once in a generation player.

It will take awhile for us to adjust. I'm hoping that at least one of the big 3 in our fwd line finds their feet and becomes a weapon. Last night when Bruce started dragging the ball in in the 3rd quarter, we looked a different team.

[Drake Huggins]

Indeed, Moods. It's going to take a long time to get over the loss of Roo. We got a glimpse of life without him in the last seven rounds last year. Ugly.

[spert]

My analysis of the pre season and the coming season:

If Steven is up and about having a good game, then we may have a chance of winning.

If Steven is injured or tagged out, then it's see you later alligator

[desertsaint]

The Carlton loss didn't bother me - typical preseason game against a lower ranked team - they were playing to win, we were using it as a practice game.
The Melbourne game bothered me. They controlled us well for most of the first half. We resorted to the same old 'tactic' (whether due to instruction or panic) when going forward. The third quarter was due to a change up, and a drop off in endeavour from the Dees. The Saints increased in desperation and got on a burst. We've seen this many times - that one quarter out of four where we look like a very capable team. Last quarter - game on the line. Melbourne renewed their vigour, went back to their regular line up and game plan, and waltzed past us.
From what I've seen i'm confident we are ahead of carlton, and some way behind melbourne.
If things go very right we'll push for a spot in the eight - but i see us lower midstream in that large group of so-so teams that will fall 8th to 14th.

I see a lot of potential in the likes of dunstan, steele, roberton, sinclair, gresham, billings, membrey, our new kids hunter and coffield, heck even in paddy and acres. but it isn't being developed as well (or as quickly) as i'd hoped. i see savage finally looking like fulfilling his potential, carlisle already shown his, but again, he's capable of more. weller is going backwards, newnes is capable but has shown no improvement - B grade at best, webster has stalled, as has bruce, geary is capable, brown is capable, lonie is trying, ross has reached his ceiling, actually exceeded it, so good on him. stevens reached his before we got him - shows it occassionally - B grade. Armo better but past his zenith. Steven a true A grader. Our ruck situation is a real concern - longer clearly the better at ruckwork, but a liability around the ground. we just aren't getting the best out of our list. Our leadership group by force of hand is a collection of B graders bar Steven.

We all know the large group leading this paragraph is where our future lies. We'll have a better idea by seasons end as to whether the rebuild is working. We certainly can't factor in a free agent - simply a cherry on top if we get one, but as far as us being a destination club - we're possibly 15th in line.

So, can our coaching staff help the guys get the best out of themselves - motivate self improvement, and identify individual strengths to help mould our game plan around? The latter is important to the likely success of a team as it maximises individual worth and increases the liklihood of team and self improvement.
I'm less confident on the potential of our coaching staff than i am on many of our players.