The club, not the players

[portosaint]

Hey all

I like to read on here, don't post though... I find there tends to be too much criticism when people have an opinion that goes against the mainstream.

Anyway, why is St Kilda so bad at developing youth? I believe we have drafted well... We have some genuine talent who would flourish in the right environment. For some reason this club just does not provide said environment.

What do we do wrong? Why do players like Billings stagnate in the red, white and black? People calling him soft... He was never hard? He was recruited for pure silk. Believe it or not, outside runners have a place in our game. Billings is only one example. But I have no doubt, if he was in a Sydney jumper, or a Geelong guernsy, he would be an out and out star by now.

Why is our development so bad??

[sainters85]

i said this in another thread. Coaching box needs to be replaced and started fresh. The kids at the saints don't resemble the kids at other clubs. Carlton have done a much better job at development.

[spert]

i said this in another thread. Coaching box needs to be replaced and started fresh. The kids at the saints don't resemble the kids at other clubs. Carlton have done a much better job at development.

It's starting to become very obvious now- there is a problem.

[magnifisaint]

It's all got to do with money, facilities and culture. St Kilda has never had any of that. At least they bit the bullet and are now farking of from Outer Frankston or Seaford wherever that is. Thanks Archie Fraser for setting the club back about 5 years. We might have a chance if the Moorabin redevelopment is up to scratch

[Ellaandjohn]

We always look for excuses. It's the players. No depth. No stars. Not good enough. 12 win side. Get Kelly or any other star


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[portosaint]

We always look for excuses. It's the players. No depth. No stars. Not good enough. 12 win side. Get Kelly or any other star


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So it's our recruiting then? I find it hard to believe our recruiting team have missed on most. Did you know about Melican? What about Menegola from Geelong? The point I make is, good clubs make players fit. Our players have talent... We just don't make it work

[WellardSaint]

Get rid of Hamill.
he's like a nasty bunion on your foot.
It's there, and you want to get rid of it, just remove it surgically.
Remove Hamill, and tell Richo that unless he smartens up, he's next on the chopping block

[sainters85]

We always look for excuses. It's the players. No depth. No stars. Not good enough. 12 win side. Get Kelly or any other star


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a star won't save us, not with our current game plan anyways. There is no movement, bulls*** handballs without looking everytime we mark it and bombing it long into the 50 whilst the swans kick it to space. Don't think kelly will fix that. Richo and the coaches need to go. Grab a coach from the swans

[longtimesaint]

We always look for excuses. It's the players. No depth. No stars. Not good enough. 12 win side. Get Kelly or any other star


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a star won't save us, not with our current game plan anyways. There is no movement, bulls*** handballs without looking everytime we mark it and bombing it long into the 50 whilst the swans kick it to space. Don't think kelly will fix that. Richo and the coaches need to go. Grab a coach from the swans

This is what StKilda has always done -the first sign of adversity we sack the coach.
Good sides have stability and it is the playing list that needs further improvement not a knee jerk reaction of sacking the coach.
I've watched the Saints for 50 plus years and every time we sack a coach it's not long before we are ready to sack his replacement.

[White Winmar]

Hey all

I like to read on here, don't post though... I find there tends to be too much criticism when people have an opinion that goes against the mainstream.

Anyway, why is St Kilda so bad at developing youth? I believe we have drafted well... We have some genuine talent who would flourish in the right environment. For some reason this club just does not provide said environment.

What do we do wrong? Why do players like Billings stagnate in the red, white and black? People calling him soft... He was never hard? He was recruited for pure silk. Believe it or not, outside runners have a place in our game. Billings is only one example. But I have no doubt, if he was in a Sydney jumper, or a Geelong guernsy, he would be an out and out star by now.

Why is our development so bad??

You're spot on portosaint. It's the development, or lack of it. We've always been behind in this area, mainly through a lack of resources, but you only have to look at Collingwood to see what poor development does for a list. We've got a number of assistants who've been there a while, without getting great results. Our potential is far greater than we've shown. Others, as well as I have called for some changes. McPhee's been there long enough, Hamill seems to have run out of ideas, Gilbee, Searle, Sexton and Skrobalak all need some heavy scrutiny. Spud Frawley is part time I believe, so that's not really ideal, either. At least three to four changes are needed. Shake things up a bit and get some fresh ideas.

[mr six o'clock]

Troll alert

[kazonte13]

ROO to replace Hamill,Harvey must be ready and available ? Get Kelly, Rocky and Sinclair

[sendmehomehappy]

I don't think you are a troll Mr 18:00

[kazonte13]

Hey all

I like to read on here, don't post though... I find there tends to be too much criticism when people have an opinion that goes against the mainstream.

Anyway, why is St Kilda so bad at developing youth? I believe we have drafted well... We have some genuine talent who would flourish in the right environment. For some reason this club just does not provide said environment.

What do we do wrong? Why do players like Billings stagnate in the red, white and black? People calling him soft... He was never hard? He was recruited for pure silk. Believe it or not, outside runners have a place in our game. Billings is only one example. But I have no doubt, if he was in a Sydney jumper, or a Geelong guernsy, he would be an out and out star by now.

Why is our development so bad??

Your opion is correct and any criticsism is also warrented .Imagine Roo in a great team F$$$ M$

[Scollop]

We'll be a better TEAM when Roo retires

[Ellaandjohn]

We always look for excuses. It's the players. No depth. No stars. Not good enough. 12 win side. Get Kelly or any other star


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a star won't save us, not with our current game plan anyways. There is no movement, bulls*** handballs without looking everytime we mark it and bombing it long into the 50 whilst the swans kick it to space. Don't think kelly will fix that. Richo and the coaches need to go. Grab a coach from the swans

Sack another coach. Worked previously.


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[portosaint]

Troll alert

Exactly why I usually "read only" on here.

Do you require my membership number? Better yet, I can provide you an itinerary of my attendance history, even though I'm 4 hours away from a home game.

I bleed for this club, and I have concerns. Shoot me

[Scollop]

Troll alert

Exactly why I usually "read only" on here.

Do you require my membership number? Better yet, I can provide you an itinerary of my attendance history, even though I'm 4 hours away from a home game.

I bleed for this club, and I have concerns. Shoot me

Politics. Power. Money. They all get in the way. I believe that the power balance within the club and within the playing group will improve when Nick retires. The TEAM ethos and equality within the playing group will help especially with some of the younger guys. With the selection committee and coaches not focussing on 'where' to play Nick, because we need to find a position for Nick to play, this will free up the coaches to concentrate on player development. That's what I meant when I said, we'll be a better TEAM when Roo retires.

[The OtherThommo]

Troll alert

Exactly why I usually "read only" on here.

Do you require my membership number? Better yet, I can provide you an itinerary of my attendance history, even though I'm 4 hours away from a home game.

I bleed for this club, and I have concerns. Shoot me

You made the point I was going to make, porto, so kudos for framing the right question. I didn't even get the whiff of a troll.

I've become particularly tired of people who rail against an individual player. What makes it worse is they usually pick someone who is in their infancy of their career.

The game is now about systems, way, way more than ever before. And, the one we have is brittle, vulnerable, unadaptable, incoherent and generally pretty much rubbish. And, who is reposnsible for the system?

We have a demonstrable inability to develop players, to capitalise on their strengths and address (or minimise the impact of) their weaknesses.

Example: Jack Billings. A superb field kick (so say the numbers and reasonable observance), yet his set shot kicking for goal is an abomination - completely rigid arms, waving the ball side to side, yet somehow the expectation is the kicking leg travelling at right angles to the side to side waving will yield a positive outcome?!?! It's just maths - it cannot work.

Go and take a look at Levi Casboult. Until this year, you could not have found a less reliable set shot for goal - he was Capt Gumby. Yet, someone recognised the problem, devoted the time and analytics to address the problem, and it worked.

But, hey, Richo went to Asia and learned about the value of meditation, so that's positive.

[The OtherThommo]

Troll alert

Exactly why I usually "read only" on here.

Do you require my membership number? Better yet, I can provide you an itinerary of my attendance history, even though I'm 4 hours away from a home game.

I bleed for this club, and I have concerns. Shoot me

Politics. Power. Money. They all get in the way. I believe that the power balance within the club and within the playing group will improve when Nick retires. The TEAM ethos and equality within the playing group will help especially with some of the younger guys. With the selection committee and coaches not focussing on 'where' to play Nick, because we need to find a position for Nick to play, this will free up the coaches to concentrate on player development. That's what I meant when I said, we'll be a better TEAM when Roo retires.

There is coitanly something in that, scollop.

Late 2015, and the 'strategic' direction was Roo would spend more time up the ground, for his and the team's benefit (incl next gen development). Progress was made in '16, then in early '17 Roo hurt his knee.

So, did Roo tell the football hierarchy his knee(s) wouldn't allow him to play up the ground, or did the football hierarchy decide that all by themselves?

Take a guess.

[David-Lee]

Hmm

[WellardSaint]

Troll alert

Exactly why I usually "read only" on here.

Do you require my membership number? Better yet, I can provide you an itinerary of my attendance history, even though I'm 4 hours away from a home game.

I bleed for this club, and I have concerns. Shoot me

Politics. Power. Money. They all get in the way. I believe that the power balance within the club and within the playing group will improve when Nick retires. The TEAM ethos and equality within the playing group will help especially with some of the younger guys. With the selection committee and coaches not focussing on 'where' to play Nick, because we need to find a position for Nick to play, this will free up the coaches to concentrate on player development. That's what I meant when I said, we'll be a better TEAM when Roo retires.

There is coitanly something in that, scollop.

Late 2015, and the 'strategic' direction was Roo would spend more time up the ground, for his and the team's benefit (incl next gen development). Progress was made in '16, then in early '17 Roo hurt his knee.

So, did Roo tell the football hierarchy his knee(s) wouldn't allow him to play up the ground, or did the football hierarchy decide that all by themselves?

Take a guess.

Tail wagging the dog ?
If this be true, it bodes not well for a team sport where everyone is supposed to be on the same page,
yet one fella has his own damn book that takes precedence uber alles (above all others)
And "there's no "i" in "team"?
Unless you've played over 300 games.
Could this be one reason (just one of many) why forward entries are like me picking lottery numbers?
Honest question

[mullet]

Look what Richmond did.

Bought in ex senior coach leppich and Blake Carracella who people say has a great football mind and will be a senior coach one day.

thats what we need to do. get richo some decent support. and ive been saying all year get fev as a kicking coach

[The_President]

Very valid points.

Swans have developed blokes like
Rampe
Lloyd
Aliir Aliir
Melican
Hewitt
Papley

We seemingly can't even develop anyone drafted without the first 25 picks.

[WellardSaint]

Look what Richmond did.

Bought in ex senior coach leppich and Blake Carracella who people say has a great football mind and will be a senior coach one day.

thats what we need to do. get richo some decent support. and ive been saying all year get fev as a kicking coach

The club could roll the dice and drop at least 2 of the assistants- say Hamill and Skrobalak (keep Kingsley as he is said to be talented)
bring in guys from successful clubs who have senior coaching aspirations.
Hamill has been there far too long.