Is Dempster becoming a liability?

[Bluthy]

I know that might sound crazy with Dempster being listed in the best. But you need to look beyond the surface of him doing an ok job on his direct opponenet.

Against Dogs - 5 kicks 8 handballs
Against Port - 6 kicks 2 hanballs

Dempster is basically doing tagging jobs. But that is playing right into the oppo's hands. They go "Great. You tag this guy and you as a key defender are out of the action. We can now press right up on you with your defenders unable to return fire against us and keep us honest"

We need defenders who can hurt the oppo the other way. That is modern footy. You can't have players who are basically taggers like Geary and Dempster. It's playing too safe that is actually a risk. Most teams don't play taggers/heavy-markers. Players are trained to be in defensive mode then when they have the ball move into aggressive attack, sweeping forward in waves. Dempster doesn't have the legs to run hard or the ball use to work it out by foot.

In the last qtr against Port we got trapped badly in our back 50. Dogs pressed us in our back 50 again confident we couldn't slice our way out. We need to be aggressive from the back to put the oppo on the back foot and get them to back off from their press. We can't do that with playes like Dempster and Geary. We need to move into the next generation of football where the backline is an attacking option. We are living in the past. Not guts, no glory.

[White Winmar]

Geary and Dempster are anachronisms. Great servants but the game has passed them by. I hate saying that about Shinner, but with him you can at least argue, he represents more value than Geary. The game hasn't passed Jarryn by. I doubt he ever caught up to it. I love his endeavour and the example he sets. He is a great club man. I know people pull stats out about effectiveness, but he offers nothing in terms of offence, which is the modern game.

Shinner can still negate the best in the opposition, but that's not enough anymore. You have to be able to hurt them the other way, which has never been his strong suit. Tough call, Bluthy, but when emotion is laid aside, probably correct. I've posted something similar in another thread about moving on the oldies. With respect, of course.

[SMS]

Very disrespectful.
You should apologize personally to Sean.

IF you are indeed correct in your analysis.... And you well maybe ... Its the COACH that is the liability NOT DEMPSTER.
Dempster has been our best backman, trainer and a very good leader (by example) of the stkilda football club.

Shame.

[Bluthy]

Very disrespectful.
You should apologize personally to Sean.

IF you are indeed correct in your analysis.... And you well maybe ... Its the COACH that is the liability NOT DEMPSTER.
Dempster has been our best backman, trainer and a very good leader (by example) of the stkilda football club.

Shame.

What a load of rubbish. I'm saying Dempster brings assets (marking, shut-down on forwards, cool head) and he has liabilities (slow, poor kicking, can't attack) and when you add it up it up he is tipping into the loss category over-all. That is a cold hard rational analysis this isn't in anyway disrespectful. To me he is drifting into the Dawson category - a great cover defender but the opposition love it when he has the ball and feel confident pressing up because of his lack of attack ability.

[White Winmar]

You do have a valid point, SMS. I've posted as much in another thread. Shinner is a great of the club. Not his fault that at 32, he's probably our best "lock down" style defender. It's just if we are moving forward, continuity with change style, we need to find a replacement who can also attack. Pronto!

[Bluthy]

Geary and Dempster are anachronisms. Great servants but the game has passed them by. I hate saying that about Shinner, but with him you can at least argue, he represents more value than Geary. The game hasn't passed Jarryn by. I doubt he ever caught up to it. I love his endeavour and the example he sets. He is a great club man. I know people pull stats out about effectiveness, but he offers nothing in terms of offence, which is the modern game.

Shinner can still negate the best in the opposition, but that's not enough anymore. You have to be able to hurt them the other way, which has never been his strong suit. Tough call, Bluthy, but when emotion is laid aside, probably correct. I've posted something similar in another thread about moving on the oldies. With respect, of course.

I'm starting to get that way with Geary WW. He is part of Richo's cover system but him and Dempster are too much cover. - its too negative to play both Personally I think we start to rest Dempster some weeks. We need to get Goddard out there, Lee out there. Geary will get under more pressure once McKenzie, White and Rice come through as they have ball kicking and line breaking class. But if Wright or Murdoch can at least put in solid performances in the VFL then maybe it gives Richo some pause for thought. I understand the balancing act between having experience and mentors and cool heads out there vs blooding slightly under-done youth but I feel we're too far tipped on the conservative side.

[kosifantutti]

Very disrespectful.
You should apologize personally to Sean.

IF you are indeed correct in your analysis.... And you well maybe ... Its the COACH that is the liability NOT DEMPSTER.
Dempster has been our best backman, trainer and a very good leader (by example) of the stkilda football club.

Shame.

Are you the same person that wrote this?

Shame.

Why the love for LEE? He looks and plays like a 14 year old virgin.
Bruce is a gun. Those stats are bruces worst games DOUBLE TEAMED vs LEEs best games with no oppo concern.

Fair dinkum.

Lee will be delisted in a few months THANK GOD!!!

Hes a spud. Potential yes but he is weak. Wont do the extra work or cut that virgin looking pimply looking FING HAIR! Just want to punch him for it. Anyone else feel that!! Ffs LEE get a haircut.

[terry smith rules]

Geary and Dempster are anachronisms. Great servants but the game has passed them by. I hate saying that about Shinner, but with him you can at least argue, he represents more value than Geary. The game hasn't passed Jarryn by. I doubt he ever caught up to it. I love his endeavour and the example he sets. He is a great club man. I know people pull stats out about effectiveness, but he offers nothing in terms of offence, which is the modern game.

Shinner can still negate the best in the opposition, but that's not enough anymore. You have to be able to hurt them the other way, which has never been his strong suit. Tough call, Bluthy, but when emotion is laid aside, probably correct. I've posted something similar in another thread about moving on the oldies. With respect, of course.

I'm starting to get that way with Geary WW. He is part of Richo's cover system but him and Dempster are too much cover. - its too negative to play both Personally I think we start to rest Dempster some weeks. We need to get Goddard out there, Lee out there. Geary will get under more pressure once McKenzie, White and Rice come through as they have ball kicking and line breaking class. But if Wright or Murdoch can at least put in solid performances in the VFL then maybe it gives Richo some pause for thought. I understand the balancing act between having experience and mentors and cool heads out there vs blooding slightly under-done youth but I feel we're too far tipped on the conservative side.

So McKenzie White and Rice all have ball kicking and line breaking class. And you base this on how many games of AFL all 3 have played under the sort of pressure that our backline is under every week. Do you have the lotto numbers as well?

[remboy]

The main problem with Dempster is that he's being forced to play as a CHB when he is only a HBF. The sooner we get another key defender the better.

[The OtherThommo]

The main problem with Dempster is that he's being forced to play as a CHB when he is only a HBF. The sooner we get another key defender the better.

Again, I like perspective.

[Beno88]

Take Dempster and Geary out of the side and watch the amount of opposition marks inside 50 go through the roof. They might not be setting the world on fire in 2016, but they're way ahead of the alternatives.

Wright, Lee, Delaney, McKenzie, Rice, Shenton, Coughlan, etc have a long way to go before they're pushing either of Dempster or Geary out.

[matrix]

Sooooo
Dempster, fisher, gears all dropped this week

Choke Cloke will kick 7.15

Sweet
Ill get on the piez

[dragit]

Didn't he just beat Stringer who was an All Australian last year?

Confusing.

[Con Gorozidis]

Didn't he just beat Stringer who was an All Australian last year?

Confusing.

Stringer had 18 disposals and kicked 2 goals 2 and took 8 marks. How was he 'beaten'?

Same goes for the delusional crap Richo was speaking on Monday that Geary had 'beaten' Dalhaus. Dalhaus still managed 16 disposals as a small fwd to Geary's 8 and the ball was locked in the Dogs fwd 50 for for most the game with Geary providing zero drive from defence. If the coach thinks this is a 'win' he is either an idiot, a bullshitter or has extremely low standards/expectations of our senior players. Take your pick. Add to that Dalhaus is only 23 and Stringer only 21. If we are patting our senior players on the back for just not being absolutely thrashed - then we have become a joke. Dempster and Geary were soundly beaten by much younger players. It seems we are living in parallel Alice in Wonderland looking glass world at St Kilda at the moment. The whole place is drowning in denial.

If we had a 21yo kick 2.2 and take 8 marks and get 18 disposals we would be blowing our top about how good he is.

[cwrcyn]

I admire Dempster. He's got the best out of himself, and is always playing against much bigger guy. It would be nice if we had mature 200cm key defender available, so that Dempster wouldn't have to play this role. He had his limitations, of course, such as being terrible below his knew, and a bit iffy with his kicking, but he's the best we've got at the moment. It's not like Geary, who could be replace relatively easily. Anyone who can hold their own in a key defensive role is of great value.

[cwrcyn]

terrible below his knees

[lefty]

I'm happy with Dempster.

Its the rest of the team that's the issue, when the ball comes down all the time.

We are in dire need of a #1 high draft pick midfielder.

What I'd give for Patrick Cripps....

[saynta]

I'm happy with Dempster.

Its the rest of the team that's the issue, when the ball comes down all the time.

We are in dire need of a #1 high draft pick midfielder.

What I'd give for Patrick Cripps....

+ 1000000000

[dragit]

Didn't he just beat Stringer who was an All Australian last year?

Confusing.

Stringer had 18 disposals and kicked 2 goals 2 and took 8 marks. How was he 'beaten'?

Same goes for the delusional crap Richo was speaking on Monday that Geary had 'beaten' Dalhaus. Dalhaus still managed 16 disposals as a small fwd to Geary's 8 and the ball was locked in the Dogs fwd 50 for for most the game with Geary providing zero drive from defence. If the coach thinks this is a 'win' he is either an idiot, a bullshitter or has extremely low standards/expectations of our senior players. Take your pick. Add to that Dalhaus is only 23 and Stringer only 21. If we are patting our senior players on the back for just not being absolutely thrashed - then we have become a joke. Dempster and Geary were soundly beaten by much younger players. It seems we are living in parallel Alice in Wonderland looking glass world at St Kilda at the moment. The whole place is drowning in denial.

If we had a 21yo kick 2.2 and take 8 marks and get 18 disposals we would be blowing our top about how good he is.

He's one of the most dangerous forwards in the comp, probably the hardest to match up on because of his versatility and explosiveness... He kicked 5 goals the week before and only 2 against us when the dogs dominated the midfield and had 58 i50's.

I think if we had a player anywhere remotely better than Dempster to play on stringer then we should play him. Dempster is the least of our problems at this stage... In our best few this year.

[Bluthy]

He's one of the most dangerous forwards in the comp, probably the hardest to match up on because of his versatility and explosiveness... He kicked 5 goals the week before and only 2 against us when the dogs dominated the midfield and had 58 i50's.

I think if we had a player anywhere remotely better than Dempster to play on stringer then we should play him. Dempster is the least of our problems at this stage... In our best few this year.

[/quote]

Well Webster actually picked Stringer up when he pushed higher up but lets just give Dempster all the credit because apparently he is now an irreplaceable AA defender that if we left out would make us lose by 100+ pts . The Dempster glorification is getting out of hand. He has been a utility player his whole career - only in the last few has he transitioned into a genuine defender where his experience and play reading has been handy. A lot of his marks (he only had 5 last week and 4 the week before) are uncontested taken going back on the last line of defense. Handy, but not threatening, attacking intercepts marks at CHB that Goddard is capable of. Dempster doesn't rack up huge possessions, doesn't want to kick anymore because he struggles to hit targets. He's become extremely risk averse and its hurting our rebound.

We rely too much on Webster and Savage for rebound and moving it out of the back and its predictable. If you want the team to show dare and risk, you need to but your balls on the line at the selection table and give them tools to do it otherwise its empty rhetoric.

[White Winmar]

Carlisle.........sigh!

[Myron Gaines]

I understand we require some experience in our team specifically in the back half. My concern is we have both Dempster & Fisher taking too much or being given too much responsibility in the back half when at their stage in their careers they should move aside for younger players. I'm not saying they should be dropped....keep them there for stability...with a lesser role with a Goddard or Lee taking key posts to complement our succession planning. But do we have an eye for the future? Perhaps Richo plans on playing them for another decade....

[skeptic]

The problem is (IMHO) not so much with Dempster and Geary but with both of them in the team together.

Neither player gives us drive, and I don't think you can afford to have too many players in the backline that don't have that offensive capability.

[Con Gorozidis]

Dempster is good in the air so would be fine if he had three speedsters around him who he could dish off to - but we dont - so we have to question the entire defensive structure which he is a part of. He doesn't get off the hook because he is good at one aspect of the game. His game is fairly limited and if we dont have the guys around him to compensate - then we have a problem and he is part of the problem. Our backline worries even more than our midfield at the moment. Yes we defend pretty well but then what? We are terrible at getting it out of our back half and everyone knows it and clubs are going to exploit it.

[Goose is king]

No