Billings out for the season

[saintspremiers]

4 to 6 weeks according to saints.com.au

[plugger66]

4 to 6 weeks according to saints.com.au

So why the season. Im not sure if people have had shin splints but it is very hard to get a correct amount of time out. You can rest and think you are ok but as soon as you get back to a bigger load they can hurt again.

Looks like a rubbish headline to me.

[FQF]

There are more than 6 weeks left in the season?

[Saint wagga]

I'm a bit miffed about how they diagnose another "hot spot" on the same area within 12 months. In my experience, a "hot spot" is a term used to describe a point of increased bone metabolism that has an increased uptake of radionuclear material on a 3 phase scan, taken at standard intervals over a couple of hours...I was under the understanding that this area will show up as hot for approx 12 months, even post recovery (which is usually 2-6 weeks depending on the spectrum of damage from bone stress to thru to stress fracture). A positive bone scan or "hot spot" is correlated to the symptom (pain and disbaility) severity, for the average weekend warrior, a posotive scan matched with symptoms of a stress reaction, they will generally just diagnose on those two things...for an AFL player, i'm fairly sure they would then undergo a CT scan or MRI to assess if it's a fracture which will show up on CT, or if there is no visible fracture line, they'll call it a stress reaction...given how hard they ride the line in terms of getting players out there asap, they'll be right on the edge of accetped time lines...another really important factor is accurate synptom reporting from the athlete...in my experiecne younger athletes are pretty poor at being 100% truthful or even having that very good body tissue sense awareness, probably because they haven't had heaps of injuries before, and the whole mentality of being bulletproof when your young...with experience and age this tends to improve (my experience is more with track and field athletes FWIW).

If someone more on the momey with regards to current practice in terms of diagnosis/imaging could enlighten us it'd be helpful.

Either way, it's pretty bad news for Jack Billings. I'd be surprised if he got back before the end of the season to make a meanigful contribution. Given the amount of weight he's put on in the last 12 months, i think they'll be conservative as to how quickly they reload the leg with full weight bearing training. IMO.

[asiu]

Conservative , at this stage of things is Good
... is it not ?

See ya in '16 Jack.

[8856brother]

Well 1 week has already turned into 10. I would be surprised to see him again this year.

[SaintPav]

Is Billings training in the main group Tony74?

Didn't someone on here write that they were told he had a fracture?

[Junction Oval]

Thanks for the professional insight, Saint wagga. He "must" be managed for the longer term. If that means taking the rest of the season off, then so be it. This is obviously a very delicate injury to handle.

Unfortunately, AFL Clubs nearly always prioritise for "the immediate future."

[tony74]

Was training with the main group spasmodically, with swimming sessions and work in the altitude room on the harness treadmill. It is not a stress fracture, but after he had his soft tissue injury pre season he put a lot of miles in his legs and it's told. They played him mainly forward instead of rotating through the midfield, to look after him, but obviously now it's too risky. He's a class act as you know.

[S.A Saint]

Was training with the main group spasmodically, with swimming sessions and work in the altitude room on the harness treadmill. It is not a stress fracture, but after he had his soft tissue injury pre season he put a lot of miles in his legs and it's told. They played him mainly forward instead of rotating through the midfield, to look after him, but obviously now it's too risky. He's a class act as you know.

That's fair enough.

He is one player we cannot afford to run into the ground and needs to become elite for us to move forward rapidly.

[Saint wagga]

Was training with the main group spasmodically, with swimming sessions and work in the altitude room on the harness treadmill. It is not a stress fracture, but after he had his soft tissue injury pre season he put a lot of miles in his legs and it's told. They played him mainly forward instead of rotating through the midfield, to look after him, but obviously now it's too risky. He's a class act as you know.

Thanks Tony. Not sure "it's not a stress fracture" is that important. The difference in management between bone stress injury and stress fracture in the tibia (shin) is pretty minimal, perhaps a couple of weeks longer for an actual fracture. Much less important an issue than problem healing areas like the navicular which is getting lots of press lately for botched management and serious time out for players and 5th metatarsal (long narrow bone on the outside of the foot) fractures. Wheather the shin cracks or not, not really long term dangers like the foot ones...so the clubs emphasis on saying it's 'not a stress fracture", think it's just a bit of PR spin to not put fans into a panic given the negative connotations with stress fracture these days...

[SaintPav]

Thanks, Tony74.

[Kernal75]

Nothing to really be gained by playing him again this season. At best its a couple more games experience. Put him in cotton wool until next year and get another pre-season under his belt so he can start to rotate through the midfield.

[GrumpyOne]

Can we elevate another rookie? Holmes?

[RW&B]

Was training with the main group spasmodically, with swimming sessions and work in the altitude room on the harness treadmill. It is not a stress fracture, but after he had his soft tissue injury pre season he put a lot of miles in his legs and it's told. They played him mainly forward instead of rotating through the midfield, to look after him, but obviously now it's too risky. He's a class act as you know.

Thanks Tony. Not sure "it's not a stress fracture" is that important. The difference in management between bone stress injury and stress fracture in the tibia (shin) is pretty minimal, perhaps a couple of weeks longer for an actual fracture. Much less important an issue than problem healing areas like the navicular which is getting lots of press lately for botched management and serious time out for players and 5th metatarsal (long narrow bone on the outside of the foot) fractures. Wheather the shin cracks or not, not really long term dangers like the foot ones...so the clubs emphasis on saying it's 'not a stress fracture", think it's just a bit of PR spin to not put fans into a panic given the negative connotations with stress fracture these days...

The other key piece is which part of the tibia. Non-critical (medial) stress reactions/fractures heal in weeks. Critical (anterior) stress reactions/fractures take months.

[saintsRrising]

Can we elevate another rookie? Holmes?

If Billings goes on the LTI...Yes.

[Teflon]

Conservative , at this stage of things is Good
... is it not ?

See ya in '16 Jack.

Yep rest up Jack - yours is the war not the battle of 15

[The Fireman]

That's it...if Jack is out so am I.

[Austinnn]

That's it...if Jack is out so am I.

You bailed out a long time ago. It will be good to have you back!

[thequarry]

Was training with the main group spasmodically, with swimming sessions and work in the altitude room on the harness treadmill. It is not a stress fracture, but after he had his soft tissue injury pre season he put a lot of miles in his legs and it's told. They played him mainly forward instead of rotating through the midfield, to look after him, but obviously now it's too risky. He's a class act as you know.

Thanks Tony. Not sure "it's not a stress fracture" is that important. The difference in management between bone stress injury and stress fracture in the tibia (shin) is pretty minimal, perhaps a couple of weeks longer for an actual fracture. Much less important an issue than problem healing areas like the navicular which is getting lots of press lately for botched management and serious time out for players and 5th metatarsal (long narrow bone on the outside of the foot) fractures. Wheather the shin cracks or not, not really long term dangers like the foot ones...so the clubs emphasis on saying it's 'not a stress fracture", think it's just a bit of PR spin to not put fans into a panic given the negative connotations with stress fracture these days...

The other key piece is which part of the tibia. Non-critical (medial) stress reactions/fractures heal in weeks. Critical (anterior) stress reactions/fractures take months.

Thanks tony74, Saint wagga and RW&B for the input in this one. It's amazing how difficult these kinds of injuries can be to manage - let alone alleviate completely - whether you're an elite athlete with the best facilities, physios and sports science available, or an amateur/weekend warrior (as I've found out myself over the last few years with MTSS and compartment syndrome).

I had similar reservations about Hickey and how much impact he'd be able to have given his troubles, although fortunately that seems to have passed for the time being. My first reaction is to just put Jack on ice for the year but that's easy for me to say form this distance. I just don't think it would be worth pushing him any harder than beyond getting this fixed up.

Interesting one because I think it was 2011 (maybe more recently?) that Siposs had shin splints, and Jamie Cripps when he was with us and Simpkin I think had compartment syndrome around the same period. Might be the kind of thing that young players are struggling with as part of stepping up to AFL level and as pre-seasons seem to get more and more intense (although I wouldn't have the numbers to back that up).

[samuraisaint]

Players in the old VFL-era used to get it when they returned to full training after long layoffs - they would do too much running to over compensate.
On Jack B - I wouldn't be in a mood to rush him back this year - he finished up early last year too, didn't he, if memory serves me correct?
10 games last year, 10 this year, hopefully more next year and he will be on track.

[The Fireman]

That's it...if Jack is out so am I.

You bailed out a long time ago. It will be good to have you back!

The skunks..3 losses in a row...this warms the heart..stuff it I'm back in.

[Con Gorozidis]

Kid is done for the year. Wont do him any harm. Still only 19. Already has 25 AFL games under his belt.

[Dr Spaceman]

From another thread:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/j ... 7435807458

After playing three games for GWS in 2012 and 11 in 2013 the club offered him a two-year extension but with the club already loaded with star youngsters Jeremy Cameron, Jonathon Patton and the prospect of more key forwards to come Bruce made the move to the Saints.

“He went to St Kilda for more opportunity,” Giants coach Leon Cameron said.

“It was disappointing to lose Josh but we’re rapt in the way he is going. Anyone who leaves our club on the right note goes with our blessing and that’s the case with Josh.

“We always knew he could take a big mark and had a big motor. He had two years of interruptions here because of his shins but he’s playing some great footy.

“Whether it’s Nick Haynes, Matt Buntine or whoever it is they will have their work cut out playing on him.

Let's hope Jack can overcome his problems as well as Josh obviously has

[Saint wagga]

From another thread:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/j ... 7435807458

After playing three games for GWS in 2012 and 11 in 2013 the club offered him a two-year extension but with the club already loaded with star youngsters Jeremy Cameron, Jonathon Patton and the prospect of more key forwards to come Bruce made the move to the Saints.

“He went to St Kilda for more opportunity,” Giants coach Leon Cameron said.

“It was disappointing to lose Josh but we’re rapt in the way he is going. Anyone who leaves our club on the right note goes with our blessing and that’s the case with Josh.

“We always knew he could take a big mark and had a big motor. He had two years of interruptions here because of his shins but he’s playing some great footy.

“Whether it’s Nick Haynes, Matt Buntine or whoever it is they will have their work cut out playing on him.

Let's hope Jack can overcome his problems as well as Josh obviously has

I think from memory and don't quote m as gospel on this, that bruce had compartment syndrome type issues with his shins and had surgery last year before the end of the season to be right for pre season. If it was more compartment syndrome type stuff, different to what JB is going thru...the main concern with JB would be the amount of weight he has gained in a relatively short time and runnig volume. I rekcon they'll be careful and get it right...