Is The Pelican Weird Or What?

[damienc]

Now I might be completely out of order in saying this, but I'm going to say it anyway and to hell with the criticism.

But I happened to be on the AFL website just now as you do. I confess to being a draft junkie this last week but I'm probably not alone this time of year.

Anyway, I was reading a story written by Chris Pelchen, headlined his club-by-club draft trade analysis.

This is not the first time the Pelican has expressed his opinion on this year's draft.

He wrote a piece before the draft announcement.

Of course he was extremely careful not to give anything away with respect to St Kilda given that he had inside knowledge. As you might expect.

But now, with the draft over and done with and him no longer an office bearer at the St Kilda football club, the Pelican was free to say what he liked about how he thought each club had fared with their picks.

I was particularly interested in what he had to say about the Saints and their picks. Afterall I'm sure he would have had some influence if not a great deal of influence on the outcome.

I should also mention that he also gave clubs a rating on their picks, for example A+, A-, A, B+, B etc etc.

Now I will be honest here and say I was genuinely shocked that he only gave the St Kilda football club a B+ for its efforts in the draft ( I'm not talking about the rookie draft).

A B+?

What's that all about?

He would have been privy to what eventually transpired on draft night so why the low rating? Seems very odd unless he was very much at odds with what the club selected. I am not saying I have any inside knowledge. I don't. I am just saying it's unusual.

I mean, he gave the Brisbane Lions and the GC Suns a higher rating than St Kilda. And, as if to add insult to injury, he gave the filth the same rating as us. I mean has this guy no shame?

Yeah. Look I am probably making something where there is nothing. But I don't get this at all.

[plugger66]

It makes complete sense to me if he wanted Petracca so I would suggest he did.

[damienc]

It makes complete sense to me if he wanted Petracca so I would suggest he did.

Point taken. But..if that were true then surely he would have rated Melbourne who got Petracca and Brayshaw, arguably the two best midfielders available, ahead of us. But he gave Melbourne the same rating as St Kilda.

I would say, without a single shred of evidence to back this up, that the Pelican's departure from St Kilda was not as amicable as everyone including him has made out.

So I reckon you are on to something.

[jaxons]

Jury still out on how we performed in the draft.
We should have taken Petracca in a lot of people's opinion including mine and there was a reason Goddard slid to 21, he is no world beater.
We needed to add midfielders and quality ones and in both drafts have added one midfielder in McKenzie, who is a more a back flanker sweeper type.
Teams are going to smash us in running and midfield next year.
We won the inside 50 count 2-20 this year and more possessions in s game we were 4-18.
Doesn't matter who is in the forward line with those numbers.
Most teams have 8-12 gun mids.
We have 1 with a few emerging still.
I didn't think we were strategically brilliant in this draft either.

[White Winmar]

He was told to go.

[Teflon]

Jury still out on how we performed in the draft.
We should have taken Petracca in a lot of people's opinion including mine and there was a reason Goddard slid to 21, he is no world beater.
We needed to add midfielders and quality ones and in both drafts have added one midfielder in McKenzie, who is a more a back flanker sweeper type.
Teams are going to smash us in running and midfield next year.
We won the inside 50 count 2-20 this year and more possessions in s game we were 4-18.
Doesn't matter who is in the forward line with those numbers.
Most teams have 8-12 gun mids.
We have 1 with a few emerging still.
I didn't think we were strategically brilliant in this draft either.

Agree.

Weve all bought the 'we couldnt afford to buy a forward FA so had to draft one' and the 'next years is choc full of mids'

I am worried bout our midfield - in modern footy gun mids win games and mids who kick goals and can play forward are of enormous value. We dont have enough mids and what is there now is not screaming 'elite'.

IF Petracca turns Judd Im truning feral as it'll be a massive I fkn told u so!
IF Petracca turns Brock Mclean and McCartin turns Roughead I'll eat humble pie by the truck load and love chewing it

[damienc]

Jury still out on how we performed in the draft.
We should have taken Petracca in a lot of people's opinion including mine and there was a reason Goddard slid to 21, he is no world beater.
We needed to add midfielders and quality ones and in both drafts have added one midfielder in McKenzie, who is a more a back flanker sweeper type.
Teams are going to smash us in running and midfield next year.
We won the inside 50 count 2-20 this year and more possessions in s game we were 4-18.
Doesn't matter who is in the forward line with those numbers.
Most teams have 8-12 gun mids.
We have 1 with a few emerging still.
I didn't think we were strategically brilliant in this draft either.

You make some interesting points.

The general consensus among expert commentators is that the Saints did well from the draft. We had a tough call to make on pick 1. It was line ball between McCartin and Petracca and in the end we opted for what the club hopes will be a worthy successor to Roo.

But I agree with you.

If it was my decision to make, I would have taken Petracca over McCartin. No question. Petracca was clearly the best player in the draft.

He is, i believe a once in a generation midfielder and the way the modern game of footy is played they are the engine room for any club serious about winning a premiership.

So no use having a gun forward if we have no one capable of winning the contested ball and kicking it to them. And as you point out we were smashed in that department in season 2014.

But opinions are like rear ends. Everyone's got one. So while I'm on a roll let me say I would also have taken Reece McKenzie and Caleb Daniel. But that's me.

And it's not to say I won't be getting behind the club and the decisions it has made. Paddy McCartin is a fine young man. He has a good attitude. He has a vice like marking grip on the footy. He's a good kick for goal. And his leading patterns are smart.

But to my knowledge he never kicked 10 goals in a TAC match this year. He played against the same defenders Reece McKenzie came up against.

Am I suggesting Mckenzie is a better forward than McCartin? In the view of footy brains more expert than mine, I would be foolish and wrong to do so.

Paddy McCartin is a work in progress just like Reece McKenzie. It remains to be seen who will end up having the greater impact in the AFL.

History shows that pick 1 is no guarantee you will make the grade.

People who know the draft backwards and the players who were available in it, do say the club got it right with their choices, given our needs.

I just hope they got it right. But I can't be any more certain than that.

[tweedaletomanning]

Jury still out on how we performed in the draft.
We should have taken Petracca in a lot of people's opinion including mine and there was a reason Goddard slid to 21, he is no world beater.
We needed to add midfielders and quality ones and in both drafts have added one midfielder in McKenzie, who is a more a back flanker sweeper type.
Teams are going to smash us in running and midfield next year.
We won the inside 50 count 2-20 this year and more possessions in s game we were 4-18.
Doesn't matter who is in the forward line with those numbers.
Most teams have 8-12 gun mids.
We have 1 with a few emerging still.
I didn't think we were strategically brilliant in this draft either.

Agree.

Weve all bought the 'we couldnt afford to buy a forward FA so had to draft one' and the 'next years is choc full of mids'

I am worried bout our midfield - in modern footy gun mids win games and mids who kick goals and can play forward are of enormous value. We dont have enough mids and what is there now is not screaming 'elite'.

IF Petracca turns Judd Im truning feral as it'll be a massive I fkn told u so!
IF Petracca turns Brock Mclean and McCartin turns Roughead I'll eat humble pie by the truck load and love chewing it

Me too!

Odds are we have to get it right eventually. ( don't we?)

[SuperDuper]

well unlike some other people rating the draft, Pelchin clearly rated in terms of degree of difficulty... i.e. us and Melbourne did not have much work to do in picking 1-3.. with the only debate about the 1-2 order... while grabbing a good player at 25 is hard...

So... if he gave melbourne A+, then I would agree he must have thought Petrcacca a better option.. but he didnt.. he gave them also a B+ (god knows how.. they seemed to draft well IMO with ABN and McDonald)

and besides... he was rating the whole trade period.. the fact is Brisbane got Beams and Christenson.... and got A-
So... it would be silly for him to rate us as highly as that, given the fact that those 2 are known guns

So.. I would not worry too much

[kimberly saint]

Maybe he thought he would look like a tool giving us A+ having so much involvement in our selections and draft process

[saintspremiers]

He was told to go.

Exactly.

So he's being a bitter turd and ranked us poorly

[Dr Spaceman]

Who cares?

Pelchen's rankings, or anyone else's rankings, won't change how our recruits play.

It's worth reading, but that's about all.

[St DAC]

Teams are going to smash us in running and midfield next year.

It wouldn't have mattered who we drafted; this would still happen. Our 2014 draft choices won't be ready for AFL-level impact next year anyway, even if we had drafted all midfielders.

We are a work in progress with some more pain to come, and Petracca wouldn't have changed that situation much.

[Beekay]

Can't help but do Hawthorn comparisons.

They botched a lot of quality picks. 2005 - Ellis & Dowler, picks 3 & 6. Muston picked 22.

2006. Mitch Thorp pick 6. Brent Renouf pick 24. Jarryd Morton pick 33.

Going back to 2003. Harry Miller and Zac Dawson, picks 25. & 41.

Pretty sure they had at least 3 players originally selected as rookies in their last flag.

Hodge immense, obviously. But, in my opinion, Sam Mitchell has been the better player, and the true 2014 Norm Smith. Pick 36.

Which draft am I missing? .................

2004 - Roughhead & Franklin. Richmond popping champagne bottles like it's 11:59:59pm December 31st 1999.


Lewis a quality addition, but no Chris Judd, "once in a generation" tag bullshite. Hell, WCE just beat a plodding Sydney team in the 2005 GF with an immense midfield. Better than what Melbourne will put together.

Watching the 2004 Draft Live:

[saintspremiers]

Beekay, what about the Tigers picking up "Pav"?!!

[Beekay]

Beekay, what about the Tigers picking up "Pav"?!!

People too obsessed with Wayne Carey. The Tigers need some run through the middle, and Aaron Fiora WILL provide that.

[matrix]

Teams are going to smash us in running and midfield next year.

It wouldn't have mattered who we drafted; this would still happen. Our 2014 draft choices won't be ready for AFL-level impact next year anyway, even if we had drafted all midfielders.

We are a work in progress with some more pain to come, and Petracca wouldn't have changed that situation much.

so now we draft mids next year and we are a year behind in development yet we have 2351 forwards on the list

ohh ohh we have a goddard
big deal
kids over rated

[stinger]

He was told to go.

yep...sacked...

[gringo]

I don't think Pelchen rated Petracca so he obviously doesn't really rate some one else we picked up. Goddard was about his value and Mc Kenzie was more a speculative decision. Lonnie was about value too so Mc Kenzie is the one who went before a few highly rated players. I think teams like Essendon probably did best out of the draft because they were limited by the picks they had but still got quality.

[bergholt]

It wouldn't have mattered who we drafted; this would still happen. Our 2014 draft choices won't be ready for AFL-level impact next year anyway, even if we had drafted all midfielders.

Untrue. How'd Dunstan go this year? Not to mention:

2013: McDonald (23 games), Taylor (22), Aish (21), Merrett (20), Impey, Kelly, Kolodjashnij, Lemmens (18)
2012: Wines (24 games), Rampe (23), Whitfield (19), Mayes, Vlastuin (18)
2011: Ellis (21 games), Smith (20), Greene, Wingard (19)
2010: Heppell (23 games), Swallow (21), O'Shea (18)
2009: Morabito (23 games), Bastinac (22), Scully, Martin (21), Cunnington, Fyfe, Trengove (18)

There's a bunch of guys every year who have impact straight after being drafted. A lot of them are early picks. We had pick 1. There's no doubt Petracca would have made a difference to our competitiveness next year.

Look, it remains ridiculous in the short term that we didn't pick up midfielders. It will continue to be ridiculous for at least a few years. Hopefully McCartin and Goddard turn out to be stars, in which case we'll feel better about it - but that'll be 2017 at the earliest.

[MC Gusto]

might be over analysing the pelican's comments and ratings just a tad.

He gave us an equal 3rd and a very positive review.

[MC Gusto]

It wouldn't have mattered who we drafted; this would still happen. Our 2014 draft choices won't be ready for AFL-level impact next year anyway, even if we had drafted all midfielders.

Untrue. How'd Dunstan go this year? Not to mention:

2013: McDonald (23 games), Taylor (22), Aish (21), Merrett (20), Impey, Kelly, Kolodjashnij, Lemmens (18)
2012: Wines (24 games), Rampe (23), Whitfield (19), Mayes, Vlastuin (18)
2011: Ellis (21 games), Smith (20), Greene, Wingard (19)
2010: Heppell (23 games), Swallow (21), O'Shea (18)
2009: Morabito (23 games), Bastinac (22), Scully, Martin (21), Cunnington, Fyfe, Trengove (18)

There's a bunch of guys every year who have impact straight after being drafted. A lot of them are early picks. We had pick 1. There's no doubt Petracca would have made a difference to our competitiveness next year.

Look, it remains ridiculous in the short term that we didn't pick up midfielders. It will continue to be ridiculous for at least a few years. Hopefully McCartin and Goddard turn out to be stars, in which case we'll feel better about it - but that'll be 2017 at the earliest.

yes but to your point - if midefielders impact early then given where we are now does it not make sense to draft the KPPs we need as they take more time?

Seems logical to me..?

[bergholt]

yes but to your point - if midefielders impact early then given where we are now does it not make sense to draft the KPPs we need as they take more time?

Sure, but that's not really who we picked. 4 of our 8 picks were small forwards. They don't take time to develop, why are we loading up on them?

[Spinner]

Is this the biggest jumping at shadows ever?

First of all its a trade and draft analysis. Our trade results were not outstanding, missed KJ and JOR who we both made a play for. Pelchen was a part of this.

Secondly - he state each stk draftee by name and says it's an excellent return.


What more would you want? A+++? We had pick one... I think B+ is a fair result given only brisbane and Gold Coast got higher and doesn't represent even the slightest bitterness. I'm actually quite surprised by the original post.

[Dr Spaceman]

I don't think Pelchen rated Petracca so he obviously doesn't really rate some one else we picked up. Goddard was about his value and Mc Kenzie was more a speculative decision. Lonnie was about value too so Mc Kenzie is the one who went before a few highly rated players. I think teams like Essendon probably did best out of the draft because they were limited by the picks they had but still got quality.

And of course the players have to still be there. Langford and Laverde for Essendon, Lever for Adelaide, Goddard for St Kilda. Even the great haul that many think Melbourne picked up. The sliders have to be there at the time of the pick in order to be selected.

Really great recruiting is picking up kids that no one really rated that highly in the lead up to the Draft and seeing them turn into really good/great players. And that phenomenon usually takes a bit of time to reveal itself.