what do we have of trade value?

[older saint]

Lots of talk about trading down and getting multiple picks and perhaps a US type trade of 1 for 3 and 10 in 3 way, but player wise what do we have that we can afford to get rid of? Montagna is the obvious but we need him to teach the younger players (especially if Lenny retires), same as per Roo. Armitage and Steven are to be the experienced players we need for the next few years as the younger mids develop.
That leaves not many players really - Stanley , Gilbert, may have some value but that is about it.

I think we will see Hayes, Fisher, retire
Delist : Maister, Milera , Jones

Schnieder a question mark with injury also.

I just can't see how we can act like last year and accumulate picks early apart from trading down from 1 , which i think is a risk as the key forwards available at 1 McCartin ( not Wright as he is a ruck forward) looks good from all reports and most barring Watts key forwards selected in top couple have worked - Roughhead, Franklin, Roo, Hawkins ( would have been top 3).

[plugger66]

Forgetting the kids with 3 years or less experience i think the only real tradable players are Joey, Armo, Steven and maybe Gilbert. Only Joey and Armo would get picks under 30 and just as i am discounting Steven as we cant afford to get rid of our best young player just to get another pick inside 20. Actually cant see how we can get another pick inside 20. Still not sure we wont trade pick one but it will depend on what we can get.

[Old Mate]

Steven is a good player but far too many deficiencies to be an elite midfielder of the competition. Disposal and decision making very poor. I would strongly consider trading him if it were to help get some elite talent through the door such as Shiel, Patton, Boyd etc.

[White Winmar]

Gilbo and Armo. Not much beyond those two. Either there is little of sufficient quality to enthuse potential suitors, or we can't afford to give away those that would attract interest, for example Joey and Jackie boy.

[plugger66]

Steven is a good player but far too many deficiencies to be an elite midfielder of the competition. Disposal and decision making very poor. I would strongly consider trading him if it were to help get some elite talent through the door such as Shiel, Patton, Boyd etc.

Did he fluke last year? His kicking is actually pretty good when he steadies but due to the injury he copped at the start of the year he has last a little pace which hasnt allowed him to have that steadying step or two before kicking. It would be huge error trading him on this years form firstly because we wouldnt get his true value and secondly he will be a star when fully fit. If anyone suggested trading him at the end of last year and think they may have been put in an institution. A year seems to be long time in footy.

[Old Mate]

Steven is a good player but far too many deficiencies to be an elite midfielder of the competition. Disposal and decision making very poor. I would strongly consider trading him if it were to help get some elite talent through the door such as Shiel, Patton, Boyd etc.

Did he fluke last year? His kicking is actually pretty good when he steadies but due to the injury he copped at the start of the year he has last a little pace which hasnt allowed him to have that steadying step or two before kicking. It would be huge error trading him on this years form firstly because we wouldnt get his true value and secondly he will be a star when fully fit. If anyone suggested trading him at the end of last year and think they may have been put in an institution. A year seems to be long time in footy.

No he didn't fluke it last year. But to put it into perspective he won the best and fairest in a team that finished 16th. Still he had a very good year last year, and still regularly butchered the footy. The point is, every player is tradable if the right deal is offered. Not many thought Ben would be traded last year but we got offered a deal we couldn't refuse. The same may be offered ( a deal we cannot refuse) for Steven at the end of the year.

[Old Mate]

Moving away from the Steven discussion...

Gwilt (similar value to WCE's Lynch) as a free agent may get us a 3rd rounder, currently around pick 40.

Gilbert, pick 30-40

Armo, pick 20-30

[plugger66]

Steven is a good player but far too many deficiencies to be an elite midfielder of the competition. Disposal and decision making very poor. I would strongly consider trading him if it were to help get some elite talent through the door such as Shiel, Patton, Boyd etc.

Did he fluke last year? His kicking is actually pretty good when he steadies but due to the injury he copped at the start of the year he has last a little pace which hasnt allowed him to have that steadying step or two before kicking. It would be huge error trading him on this years form firstly because we wouldnt get his true value and secondly he will be a star when fully fit. If anyone suggested trading him at the end of last year and think they may have been put in an institution. A year seems to be long time in footy.

No he didn't fluke it last year. But to put it into perspective he won the best and fairest in a team that finished 16th. Still he had a very good year last year, and still regularly butchered the footy. The point is, every player is tradable if the right deal is offered. Not many thought Ben would be traded last year but we got offered a deal we couldn't refuse. The same may be offered ( a deal we cannot refuse) for Steven at the end of the year.

If field kicking inproved a fair bit last year. he was in the top 40 for AA and that has nothing to do with how good or bad sides are. He won the B&F with 50% more votes than any other player. And yes every single player is tradable but you would have to get an offer you cant refuse to trade a 24 year old when our list lacks that age player as it is. If he went we would lose Steven, hayes and CJ from our midfield next season. Where is the pace of the slowest midfield in the AFL.

Would you have traded Steven at the end of last year forgetting a deal you cant refuse?

[Old Mate]

Steven is a good player but far too many deficiencies to be an elite midfielder of the competition. Disposal and decision making very poor. I would strongly consider trading him if it were to help get some elite talent through the door such as Shiel, Patton, Boyd etc.

Did he fluke last year? His kicking is actually pretty good when he steadies but due to the injury he copped at the start of the year he has last a little pace which hasnt allowed him to have that steadying step or two before kicking. It would be huge error trading him on this years form firstly because we wouldnt get his true value and secondly he will be a star when fully fit. If anyone suggested trading him at the end of last year and think they may have been put in an institution. A year seems to be long time in footy.

No he didn't fluke it last year. But to put it into perspective he won the best and fairest in a team that finished 16th. Still he had a very good year last year, and still regularly butchered the footy. The point is, every player is tradable if the right deal is offered. Not many thought Ben would be traded last year but we got offered a deal we couldn't refuse. The same may be offered ( a deal we cannot refuse) for Steven at the end of the year.

If field kicking inproved a fair bit last year. he was in the top 40 for AA and that has nothing to do with how good or bad sides are. He won the B&F with 50% more votes than any other player. And yes every single player is tradable but you would have to get an offer you cant refuse to trade a 24 year old when our list lacks that age player as it is. If he went we would lose Steven, hayes and CJ from our midfield next season. Where is the pace of the slowest midfield in the AFL.

Would you have traded Steven at the end of last year forgetting a deal you cant refuse?

My position on Steven hasn't changed between this year and last year. It would be hard to knock back the chance at getting a key forward such as Patton, Boyd, Cameron, Hogan or Daniher to replace Riewoldt. Shiel and O'Meara, once in a generation midfielders I wouldn't knock back either. Draft picks are a much lesser known commodity so unless the draft pick was for a talent like Tom Boyd, who dominated TAC Cup and the Nationals like no other forward we've seen, I would stay away from draft picks when considering to trade a quality player such as Steven.

[bigcarl]

IMO the only tradeable players we have are the young players with a future. I guess we could offload a slow inside mid for a quicker outside player. We've tried that before of course. Didn't quite work out like we hoped

[plugger66]

Steven is a good player but far too many deficiencies to be an elite midfielder of the competition. Disposal and decision making very poor. I would strongly consider trading him if it were to help get some elite talent through the door such as Shiel, Patton, Boyd etc.

Did he fluke last year? His kicking is actually pretty good when he steadies but due to the injury he copped at the start of the year he has last a little pace which hasnt allowed him to have that steadying step or two before kicking. It would be huge error trading him on this years form firstly because we wouldnt get his true value and secondly he will be a star when fully fit. If anyone suggested trading him at the end of last year and think they may have been put in an institution. A year seems to be long time in footy.

No he didn't fluke it last year. But to put it into perspective he won the best and fairest in a team that finished 16th. Still he had a very good year last year, and still regularly butchered the footy. The point is, every player is tradable if the right deal is offered. Not many thought Ben would be traded last year but we got offered a deal we couldn't refuse. The same may be offered ( a deal we cannot refuse) for Steven at the end of the year.

If field kicking inproved a fair bit last year. he was in the top 40 for AA and that has nothing to do with how good or bad sides are. He won the B&F with 50% more votes than any other player. And yes every single player is tradable but you would have to get an offer you cant refuse to trade a 24 year old when our list lacks that age player as it is. If he went we would lose Steven, hayes and CJ from our midfield next season. Where is the pace of the slowest midfield in the AFL.

Would you have traded Steven at the end of last year forgetting a deal you cant refuse?

My position on Steven hasn't changed between this year and last year. It would be hard to knock back the chance at getting a key forward such as Patton, Boyd, Cameron, Hogan or Daniher to replace Riewoldt. Shiel and O'Meara, once in a generation midfielders I wouldn't knock back either. Draft picks are a much lesser known commodity so unless the draft pick was for a talent like Tom Boyd, who dominated TAC Cup and the Nationals like no other forward we've seen, I would stay away from draft picks when considering to trade a quality player such as Steven.

Not sure how the forwards would ever see the ball without Hayes and Steven. I havent said dont trade the pick by the way. Just dont see the point of trading our best young fast midfielder.

[dragit]

Perhaps something like Gilbert & our 3rd round for Brisbanes 2nd round, which would be around the 20 mark?

[BackFromUSA]

Can't afford to lose Steven or Armitage if we are eyeing finals again in 2018. If we are willing to wait until 2020 then they are trade options

[Old Mate]

Perhaps something like Gilbert & our 3rd round for Brisbanes 2nd round, which would be around the 20 mark?

With an abundance of medium back flankers coming through I would take that deal and run. I doubt a bloke turning 29 next year would interest Brissy though. I see the Qld connection but Brissy are not the team that picks older guys to finish off a premiership winning 22. Gilbert may interest Gold Coast a little more but then I see them as having a lot of confidence in building their own list through the draft and not look at poaching players unless a free agent.

[Con Gorozidis]

Perhaps something like Gilbert & our 3rd round for Brisbanes 2nd round, which would be around the 20 mark?

I quite like that trade as I think he would be very very handy for Brissie for a few years.
Impossible to know how people rate him externally atm after the last two years of injuries. But when he actually plays hes been pretty good.

I think we need to keep Jack.
Armo - I think we need to keep. We wiill be relying on him a lot once Lenny goes but very disappointing season for Armo so far.

To me the big question is can we get a top 30 pick for Joey? If we can we should do it.

[plugger66]

Perhaps something like Gilbert & our 3rd round for Brisbanes 2nd round, which would be around the 20 mark?

I quite like that trade as I think he would be very very handy for Brissie for a few years.
Impossible to know how people rate him externally atm after the last two years of injuries. But when he actually plays hes been pretty good.

I think we need to keep Jack.
Armo - I think we need to keep. We wiill be relying on him a lot once Lenny goes but very disappointing season for Armo so far.

To me the big question is can we get a top 30 pick for Joey? If we can we should do it.

Im unsure we need to have Hayes, Joey and CJ all out the midfield next season. Who coaches the younger kids during the game. Think that is vital to their learning.

[WellardSaint]

I can't quote as the text box has no room for my comments.

But those guys asking whether we should trade Armo as his kicking is off, maybe it's a combination of poor fitness and that pesky knee.

He'll get fitter, just takes time.
The inside hardness will make up for any kicking clangers, unless he can work on his kicking accuracy.
Need that sort of grunt inside.
Billings and co will provide the laser-like accuracy, that's their strength.

[St Ick]

I think there are players on our list who provide a need for other teams. TC may well be overrated by a few on here, myself included - but he was chased by Blues, Pies and Cats in his draft year (as a rookie).

He won a b&f for Sandy in his second year, has showed real signs at times as either a tagger or inside mid. I think a club like Carlton would absolutely be keen on him. Might be worth an upgrade on our third to their second or something like that.

Armo, Gilbert, Steven, Stanley, Ross (any kid who doesnt want to buy in), we wont get first rounders from any bar Steven - but all these guys hold at least some value at the trade table even if its just to upgrade a pick.

[Dis Believer]

As P66 pointed out, if we lose Lenny & CJ from the middle next year, losing Joey or Armo as well would decimate us. We don't necessarily having to be looking at trades this year though. Think of this as more than one year process and it gets easier.

For a start there has been a lot of talk of Shiel wanting to come home and us being into him in a big way. GWS could elect to trade him this year while still under contract. We could potentially look at pick one for him and their second pick.

If we hang one to picks this year and trade next year, we could end up with something worth some value - ruckmen. We have three young rucks on our list plus Rhys, and Holmes as a rookie making great strides.

Pierce will make it, and in a substantial way IMO - have seen him at Sandy a bit and he will be very good. By the end of next season we will all know much more about how Hickey, Longer and Pierce are going to turn out. We can't play them all and I suspect all three are going to be pretty good. To me, one of them will have value in a trade next year. Either as a first rounder straight swap or as a package with our 2nd or 3rd round pick.

I also think that after another season of games into our kids we will be in much more able to use Armo in a trade as I suspect a Newnes, Webster, Billings, Saunders and Wright will all be spending more time in the middle. Potentially so will Minchington.

[Playon]

What are our chances of getting a priority pick?
We might do a trade with our second pick and a steak knives player to upgrade it, but is this the draft to to even consider it?
With no stand outs and even as the season plays out there may be only one or 2, the draft could end up being a lucky dip anyway.
Perhaps we'd be better off to try some poaching and try to lure a couple of players to the club.

The recruiting staff have their work cut out for them this year. We can't afford to replace all our stars, Roo etc, with GOPs.
It's going to be an interesting trade year

[saint6709]

End of 2015 we might have a tradable ruck man surplus to our best 2

[Con Gorozidis]

Im unsure we need to have Hayes, Joey and CJ all out the midfield next season. Who coaches the younger kids dusenior youn. Think that is vital to their learning.

Not sure cj is much of a teacher.
What are the coaches doing exactly?

Given we are on the bottom with a % of 50 I think we should be cautious in exaggerating or over stating the impact of our senior players.

Armo and Geary need to step up next year and become real leaders.

[Old Mate]

Im unsure we need to have Hayes, Joey and CJ all out the midfield next season. Who coaches the younger kids dusenior youn. Think that is vital to their learning.

Not sure cj is much of a teacher.

A science teacher and good with a bunsen burner.

[Dave McNamara]

As P66 pointed out, if we lose Lenny & CJ from the middle next year, losing Joey or Armo as well would decimate us. We don't necessarily having to be looking at trades this year though. Think of this as more than one year process and it gets easier.

For a start there has been a lot of talk of Shiel wanting to come home and us being into him in a big way. GWS could elect to trade him this year while still under contract. We could potentially look at pick one for him and their second pick.

If we hang one to picks this year and trade next year, we could end up with something worth some value - ruckmen. We have three young rucks on our list plus Rhys, and Holmes as a rookie making great strides.

Pierce will make it, and in a substantial way IMO - have seen him at Sandy a bit and he will be very good. By the end of next season we will all know much more about how Hickey, Longer and Pierce are going to turn out. We can't play them all and I suspect all three are going to be pretty good. To me, one of them will have value in a trade next year. Either as a first rounder straight swap or as a package with our 2nd or 3rd round pick.

I also think that after another season of games into our kids we will be in much more able to use Armo in a trade as I suspect a Newnes, Webster, Billings, Saunders and Wright will all be spending more time in the middle. Potentially so will Minchington.

Great post TB!

Refreshing to read someone who understands the concept of list-building tactics...
and hence... crucially..., list-building timing.

[PurpleHayes]

Steven is a good player but far too many deficiencies to be an elite midfielder of the competition. Disposal and decision making very poor. I would strongly consider trading him if it were to help get some elite talent through the door such as Shiel, Patton, Boyd etc.

Did he fluke last year? His kicking is actually pretty good when he steadies but due to the injury he copped at the start of the year he has last a little pace which hasnt allowed him to have that steadying step or two before kicking. It would be huge error trading him on this years form firstly because we wouldnt get his true value and secondly he will be a star when fully fit. If anyone suggested trading him at the end of last year and think they may have been put in an institution. A year seems to be long time in footy.

No he didn't fluke it last year. But to put it into perspective he won the best and fairest in a team that finished 16th. Still he had a very good year last year, and still regularly butchered the footy. The point is, every player is tradable if the right deal is offered. Not many thought Ben would be traded last year but we got offered a deal we couldn't refuse. The same may be offered ( a deal we cannot refuse) for Steven at the end of the year.

If field kicking inproved a fair bit last year. he was in the top 40 for AA and that has nothing to do with how good or bad sides are. He won the B&F with 50% more votes than any other player. And yes every single player is tradable but you would have to get an offer you cant refuse to trade a 24 year old when our list lacks that age player as it is. If he went we would lose Steven, hayes and CJ from our midfield next season. Where is the pace of the slowest midfield in the AFL.

Would you have traded Steven at the end of last year forgetting a deal you cant refuse?

My position on Steven hasn't changed between this year and last year. It would be hard to knock back the chance at getting a key forward such as Patton, Boyd, Cameron, Hogan or Daniher to replace Riewoldt. Shiel and O'Meara, once in a generation midfielders I wouldn't knock back either. Draft picks are a much lesser known commodity so unless the draft pick was for a talent like Tom Boyd, who dominated TAC Cup and the Nationals like no other forward we've seen, I would stay away from draft picks when considering to trade a quality player such as Steven.

Not sure how the forwards would ever see the ball without Hayes and Steven. I havent said dont trade the pick by the way. Just dont see the point of trading our best young fast midfielder.

I'm with Plugger here. Steven needs to stay on the list.
Even if it was a straight swap Shiel for Steven (Say Shiel wanted to come back to VIC) how would Shiel cope with a tag being our #1 mid? GWS midfield is much better than ours. Steven has proved he can cope with a tag which is very important.
We need to add talent to our midfield, not swap players in and out!

I still think Montagna and our 3rd round pick to Bomber for their 1st round compo pick is on..
Then we upgrade our 2nd round pick with a player for a 1st round pick (not sure who the player is yet!).
There's our 3 1st round picks for net year.. 1, 16 and 19 for example