How do you define Toughness

[skeptic]

Greetings all, I was thinking about this earlier today.

When you describe an AFL footballer as tough, specifically what characteristic of their game are you referring too?

Is a tough footballer an aggressive player. Someone like Aaron Hamil that uses their physical presence, lays bumps and strong tackles?

Is it someone that like Lenny Hayes that throws himself at the contest w/o regard for their own safety?

Is it a freak like Robert Harvey that keeps running no matter how bad it hurts and how tired he gets?

Do you consider toughness as the ability to win a contest?

Please nobody answer all of the above... I'm looking for your specific requirement... and the player you associate that quality with the most


For mine, I think of players that are able to change the outcomes of games especially when they are on the line as tough players. The guys that take the big pack mark, kick the vital goal, win the pivotal contest, spot the free man up etc... again and again and again because the team needs them to do it

Over the last 10 years we have relied on Nick Riewoldt more than any other player to be our match winner... the guy to get us back into the game, or the one to win it for us. Whilst he has been far from perfect, he's pbly responsible for winning us more games than any other.

Conversely, Aaron Fiora is the player that stands out to me as one of the more softer ones. Don't get me wrong... I DO NOT under any circumstance doubt the man's courage, his ability to back into packs, put his head over the ball etc What I don't remember seeing from him was great performances and acts when games were on the line.
I never remember thinking to myself, geeeez we would have been in trouble if Aaron hadn't of played. I also don't remember many close losses when Aaron was one of our stand out players. It's a shame because Aaron very much a supremely talented player. Cut after 2008? Didn't demand his spot on the list but was exactly the type of player we could have really benefited with in the 09 GF

[stinger]

fair questions.....

[plugger66]

Tough is a player like hayes or Harvey.

[Devilhead]

Toughness is running out on to the field and giving 100% both mentally and physically for the team

[slider]

Hayes and Harvey for mine.

[HitTheBoundary]

Riewoldt - his knee is totally stuffed but he just keeps running.

The players that play through pain (mental and physical) are in my opinion the toughest.

[Statsman]

In your example above I would think of Hamill and Hayes as "physically tough" and Harvey with his gut running as "mentally tough". Some players can obviously exhibit both of those forms of toughness.

I don't know that I'd necessarily describe that ability to produce when the game is on the line as "tough" though. Yes it does require mentally toughness to just will yourself to keep going and keep fighting, but it's more than that. Clinton Jones has the mental toughness to keep gut running all game, but he's not going to step up in the final minutes and win a game off his own boot. To do that requires the rare combination of mental toughness, an uncompromising will to win but also the elite talent to be able to take over the game or make that special play. For us that has been players like Harvey, Hayes, Goddard and Riewoldt in recent years.

[HitTheBoundary]

Slightly off topic, but I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who may have read "League of Denial".
http://www.amazon.com/League-Denial-Con ... B00DXKJ6IQ

It's the book about head injuries and brain damage in the NFL.

AFL players are presumably at risk,
"Greg Williams told a television interviewer his concussions had a permanent impact. He is suffering memory loss. His moods have become erratic.
These are classic symptoms of CTE, or chronic traumatic encephalopathy, a brain disease which causes early-onset dementia, memory loss and depression. CTE is deemed responsible for the suicide of several former professional football players."
http://www.smh.com.au/comment/concussio ... 2f6c2.html

Former players like Nathan Burke, and current players (Luke Ball, Selwood etc.) would have to be concerned about this. And what of the effects on Kosi?

I think in the future we'll view the tough players as the ones who put their body on the line, and the stupid players as the ones that go head first.

[happy feet]

For the old folks on this forum, toughness = Eric Guy. Toughest man to ever play the game. Neil Roberts labelled Leigh Matthews and Dermott Brereton as cream puffs compared to Eric Guy. One day at the Lakeside Oval Guy ironed out Bobby Skilton with probably the most lethal, but entirely legal front on hip and shoulder hits I have seen. Skilton was stretched off and Alan Jeans, in fear of Guy's safety from the incensed Swans fans, benched him for the last quarter.

[SaintPav]

Fiora

[samoht]

Other than Riewoldt's mark vs the Swans, toughness was exemplified by Clint Jones, a few years ago, who ran unflinchingly 20 metres or so to mark a high ball, all the while knowing that he was going to get crunched.

That was one of the bravest things I saw.

The players who have eyes only for the ball are the toughest players - knowingly leaving themselves open time and time again.

[GRAMophone]

For the old folks on this forum, toughness = Eric Guy. Toughest man to ever play the game. Neil Roberts labelled Leigh Matthews and Dermott Brereton as cream puffs compared to Eric Guy. One day at the Lakeside Oval Guy ironed out Bobby Skilton with probably the most lethal, but entirely legal front on hip and shoulder hits I have seen. Skilton was stretched off and Alan Jeans, in fear of Guy's safety from the incensed Swans fans, benched him for the last quarter.

See for mine I don't see 'ironing out' someone as inherently tough at all.....depends if you put your own body on the line consistently as well.

[satchmo]

Greg Burns.

[happy feet]

For the old folks on this forum, toughness = Eric Guy. Toughest man to ever play the game. Neil Roberts labelled Leigh Matthews and Dermott Brereton as cream puffs compared to Eric Guy. One day at the Lakeside Oval Guy ironed out Bobby Skilton with probably the most lethal, but entirely legal front on hip and shoulder hits I have seen. Skilton was stretched off and Alan Jeans, in fear of Guy's safety from the incensed Swans fans, benched him for the last quarter.

See for mine I don't see 'ironing out' someone as inherently tough at all.....depends if you put your own body on the line consistently as well.

That was just one incident. Find a copy of "heroes with halos" and look up his entry.

[PADDLEPOP1001]

Raph Clarke for playing with eppilepsy!

[mr six o'clock]

I agree with the way George Smilovici defines toughness !

[borderbarry]

Harvs for me. Who else has jumped off a kitchen chair to blow a tenden so he can get back to training.

[evertonfc]

Mental - Hayes/Burke for putting his head over the footy.
Mental - Harvey for going again when his body screamed out to stop.
Physical - Hamill for dishing it out and taking it.

Physical and mental - Leigh Mathews for dishing it out, taking it, going harder than anyone else. "I knew they'd be coming..."

[skeptic]

Raph Clarke for playing with eppilepsy!

Raph Clarke was a lot tougher than ppl give him credit for IMO

he put his body on the line a hell of a lot and at the same time sacrificed himself or his own game for the benefit of the team/team mates fairly regularly.

He was one of those players that would leave his man to support an outmatched/outgunned team mate in a contest w/o a second thought as to how it would look if his opponenent capitalised on this... I think this is why is team mates respected him so much

Unfortunetly a poor awareness of what was around him, suspect decision making and an injiry prone body really derailed his career

[BigMart]

Ability to deal with adversity.... Tough situation, exertion needed, courage requirement, deal with pain, getting up after a big hit.... Toughness is more about what you can handle, not necassarily what you can dish out...

Not what the England Cricket team did yesterday....

[BigMart]

Raph was courageous.... Because he backed into packs...

How did epilepsy make him tough?

[plugger66]

Raph was courageous.... Because he backed into packs...

How did epilepsy make him tough?

Dont think the guy said epilepsy made him tough.

[Munga]

Harvey, Hayes and Riewoldt all rolled in to one.

[PADDLEPOP1001]

It takes a mental toughness to run out on to the ground knowing you have eppilepsy,a differant kind of toughness but toughness all the same !

[Teflon]

Mental toughness - BigMart knowing daily he'll be crunched on here by pluggs and co but still he fronts up day in/ day out...
Also takes out the "most dumb" category.