Don't want Jolly

[Zed]

Ok so we traded out Ben, but we did bring in Hickey and Lew Pierce last year. Invest 20 odd games in Hickey and/or Stanley (who has been starved of opportunity as a forward or ruck) and if necessary use Pierce to cover for injury.

Can not see the point of bringing in Jolly or another ruck for a year or 2 - invest the games into what we have. It may also give Holmes more exposure at senior VFL level. We are not going to make the 8 next year and our existing rucks can all potentially develop into something special. We need them fully developed by 2016/17 when we look to climb back into the 8 and not lacking 20-30 games experience.

And for those of you who say we will get smashed at the midfield in 2014, just cast your mind back to the grand final. Sandilands clearly won the taps and Hawthorn expected him to. Hawks had their mids run to where Sandi normally hits the ball. That's great preparation. No reason why our midfield can't to do something similar if we genuinely think we can't compete at the ruck contest with what we currently have. But seriously let be bold - it's time for our next generation of rucks to get their chance

[gringo]

I'm with you. I think he looked spent and was never a fan. The only way I could handle him is to train up "John" Holmes who is starting a long way back. Maybe as a mature rookie like Ben Hudson. Hickey should play every game he is fit for with Stanley as ruck forward.

[mr six o'clock]

It may be more as a ruck coaching role .
Also I'd be amazed if holmes was good enough to play seniors vfl next year
If he did then we may have found a player !

[Enrico_Misso]

Go West

as in Trent

[Dr Spaceman]

Don't really want Jolly at Seaford.

However could probably accept him if:

- He costs us nothing (late pick or rookie selection)
- He plays for peanuts
- He usually lines up in a Gold & Black jumper with Blue trim
- He teaches our young ruckman the art of ruckmanship
- He plays for St Kilda only in the event that injury and/or poor form and/or inexperience leaves the club with no other options.

[BigMart]

Neither

If we are rebuilding... Why

Get games into Tom Hickey if he's the one.... Accelerate his development.... Stanley too and don't keep Lewis from #1 at Sandy ATM

Get a hack back up if needed.... Like a Rix and only use him if needed

Temptation for the coach with Jolly... Would b to pick him... And do a Lyon by holding a younger player back

[noob]

We shouldn't recruit Jolly on the basis of what the St.Kilda management has discussed. If we are in a transitional stage and a while off contending for a flag, there is no need for ruckman who has past it. I don't think the club will care if we lose our ruckman to injury during the season. It's not like were gunning a top 8 position..

[Zed]

Don't really want Jolly at Seaford.

However could probably accept him if:

- He costs us nothing (late pick or rookie selection)
- He plays for peanuts
- He usually lines up in a Gold & Black jumper with Blue trim
- He teaches our young ruckman the art of ruckmanship
- He plays for St Kilda only in the event that injury and/or poor form and/or inexperience leaves the club with no other options.

Do you reckon he would come if he was told all of the above ? .. I doubt it, but if he was willing to accept all the things u listed then yes let's use our last selection on him in the draft if he is still there.

[ausfatcat]

no need to use anything on hum if the saints take delisted free agent

[borderbarry]

That would be a dumb move if we want to get the best result for Dal.

[gringo]

I think he would be back up if the inevitable happened and a ruck went down. Both Stanley and Hickey were injured at points in 2013. Holmes should play seniors at Sandy I think just unlikely to get a senior AFL gig. He is super athletic and if all he has to do is slap a ball at ball ups he will be capable.

[ausfatcat]

That would be a dumb move if we want to get the best result for Dal.

delisted free agent isn't the same as free agent and would not effect the Dal move via free agency
in terms of compensation made

[Dr Spaceman]

no need to use anything on hum if the saints take delisted free agent

Is he a delisted free agent or simply delisted?

If he came to us as some kind of FA I presume that would affect any comp for Dal should he leave us as a FA.

Alternatively, could we simply take him with our last pick in the PSD (I doubt any other club would take him)?

[BigMart]

All a Ruckman does is hit outs?

The minor part of their game....

Holmes plays Sandy Seniors, the alignment is a Joke... He's never played AFL and he's a VFL senior Ruckman.... He would be carved up in the Ammos by Senior Ruckmen

We recruit Jolly and play him

We are officially a joke

[St Ick]

Hickey gets injured, Stanley rucks full time, rips hamstring, Lewis Pearce left to shoulder load and gets smashed week in week out, develops chronic fatigue and never plays again, leaves Holmes and Maister to play out the year in the ruck.

Welcome to the BigMart school of pessimism, but this is the arguement FOR Jolly.

We want someone for free, which Jolly is as a delisted free agent. He may not actually play, or if he does its just to rest our developing talls here and there. We don't need or want to develop another ruck, we have two to four very promising types who just need an experienced body to help if desperate, if thats Jolly, I'm cool with it.

[gringo]

All a Ruckman does is hit outs?

The minor part of their game....

Holmes plays Sandy Seniors, the alignment is a Joke... He's never played AFL and he's a VFL senior Ruckman.... He would be carved up in the Ammos by Senior Ruckmen

We recruit Jolly and play him

We are officially a joke

Mike Pike fast tracked. Holmes is extremely athletic and seems to handle the ball well with his kicking and marking- I know it's different with the pace of the game. I don't think he will play every game or early but you would think this guy will have every chance of playing seniors. Tommy Walsh could play seniors despite different rules and ball. Jolly as I said would be if one of Hickey or Rhys go down which seems likely with those two.

[Dr Spaceman]

Hickey gets injured, Stanley rucks full time, rips hamstring, Lewis Pearce left to shoulder load and gets smashed week in week out, develops chronic fatigue and never plays again, leaves Holmes and Maister to play out the year in the ruck.

Welcome to the BigMart school of pessimism, but this is the arguement FOR Jolly.

We want someone for free, which Jolly is as a delisted free agent. He may not actually play, or if he does its just to rest our developing talls here and there. We don't need or want to develop another ruck, we have two to four very promising types who just need an experienced body to help if desperate, if thats Jolly, I'm cool with it.

Yep think Collingwood 2013; think Ben Hudson.




Or alternatively think a group of professionals trying their best to get our non powerhouse club a desperately wanted second flag are a joke

[lloyd21]

Think the move would be inspired as mature Rookie and Ruck coach would cost Peanuts.
Would be one year only as player .
As for Holmes am I missing something they tested on draft combine his test results 2nd only to Nic Nat .

Perfect score for kicking at goal from 45 metres ?

[saintsRrising]

We do not need him. Gaining a player like Jolly will just set our rebuild backwards.

Please understand that in 2014 that we are still rebuilding...so if we run short of No 1 rucks in a game or two it simply does not matter.

It just means that it will be an opportunity to tray out Pierce or Holmes if need be.

So please get your head around 2014 being a rebuild year. We do not need "Dead Men Walking " recruits like Jolly....and we are not in the flag window where you might want depth.

Every player we take must be 25 or under - draft, trade, rookies, FA

We are rebuilding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lloyd21]

He is the ruck coach ..... I give up .... Would only play if others are injured.

[BigMart]

Better off with a young State League 23-25yo Ruckman with no expectations.... And who knows, they may even surprise?

Why a has been ...... If we were concerned, WTF trade the established ruck in the first place if we don't trust the next couple??

Are we hedging bets again? Not rebuilding or winning?

School do pessimism or realism??

[lloyd21]

Hickey gets injured, Stanley rucks full time, rips hamstring, Lewis Pearce left to shoulder load and gets smashed week in week out, develops chronic fatigue and never plays again, leaves Holmes and Maister to play out the year in the ruck.

Welcome to the BigMart school of pessimism, but this is the arguement FOR Jolly.

We want someone for free, which Jolly is as a delisted free agent. He may not actually play, or if he does its just to rest our developing talls here and there. We don't need or want to develop another ruck, we have two to four very promising types who just need an experienced body to help if desperate, if thats Jolly, I'm cool with it.

Agree purely employed as ruck coach takes last rookie spot

[amusingname]

Better off with a young State League 23-25yo Ruckman with no expectations.... And who knows, they may even surprise?

Why a has been ...... If we were concerned, WTF trade the established ruck in the first place if we don't trust the next couple??

Are we hedging bets again? Not rebuilding or winning?

School do pessimism or realism??

Not a question of hedging bets, more a point of shielding a developing ruck from the pain of a full season. You can see what happened to josh Fraser when he was left to the wolves as a young ruck. Pelchen obviously saw the deal as a good option to rejuvenate the list with little damage to the long term goals I.e. Saw hickey as equal or greater than Ben long term.

[saint75]

Not opposed to this. He would come pretty cheaply and in his hey day, he was one of the best (2010 he was the difference between the 2 teams and he was brilliant and for most of 2010 if there was no Jolly, Collingwood would never have been as dominant as they were as became evident in 2011 when his body started racking up the injuries.

Gardiner worked well for us for a couple of years when many thought he was a washed up hack. Why couldn't Jolly be an option for 1-2 years? I think Stanley and Hickey could learn a lot from him. Macca was fantastic when it came to marking around the ground and kicking goals, but a tap ruckman he was/is not and we were killed in the ruck this year and the stats back this up.

[groupie1]

I wouldn't want to see Jolly with us for the simple reason that he is a mercenary and a total TWAT of an individual... one of the nastiest little pricks running around the footy ground.