Benefits of Tap Ruckman !

[WinnersOnly]

For all you posters who still think we don't need a quality competitive tap ruckman go and watch the past two games !

Both Jacobs and Minson have shown the benefit in winning hit outs to advantage and giving the midfield first use of the ball. Yes they may have had a dominant midfield but their ruckman have been the nucleus of our past two losses. Ben is a great toiler and good around the ground, but I have said this before he will NEVER become and adequate tap ruckman. He simply has 'very little spring' or jump and gets monstered by the stronger ruckman. Even when he does win a tap he has absolutely NO FEEL or system for where his team mates are. An example on the weekend was a boundary throw in where the ball fell short - Ben beat Minson to the ball which was directly in front of him but hit it straight to a Bulldogs player. There were Saints either side of the player but he didn't have even look to find one of our players, that's the sort of thing you see from a gumby Under 12 ruckman ! Ben has been doing this from the outset of joining the club so I don't see it changing.

People believe he is our next Captain - well I hope not, as I doubt he will be able to hold his position in the team when Hickey and Pierce develop !

[ROLS-LEE]

lol I got shot down at the start of the year about this topic.

Some posters on here believe that taking marks in defence is just as important as winning ruck contests. Yes the carlton game was his best game to date.

They will also say that Cox wasn't a superstar at his age.

One thing I know is that every winning premiership team bar hawks in 08 have at least 1 great dominate ruck if not 2.

[CURLY]

Goldsteins poor ruck play has cost NORTH the last two games.

[plugger66]

Benefit of a tap Ruckman. Minson the most hit outs in the AFL this year and 2 wins. Jamer on the top 4 for hit outs per game and where are they on the ladder? Funny that these same 2 posters havent said a think about this topic until Ben has his really first bad game for the year.

[dragit]

Goldsteins poor ruck play has cost NORTH the last two games.

I didn't see it, did his 39 hitouts go straight to Adelaide?

[plugger66]

Goldsteins poor ruck play has cost NORTH the last two games.

I didn't see it, did his 39 hitouts go straight to Adelaide?

Hitouts only mattered when they were in control of the game.

[plugger66]

The real benefits of hitouts was shown in the Melbourne game. yep it really makes all the difference.

[CURLY]

Goldsteins poor ruck play has cost NORTH the last two games.

I didn't see it, did his 39 hitouts go straight to Adelaide?

Let Nic Nat run unhindered at that mark last week. This week when they where defending a lead he wasnt seen in the defensive 50.

[plugger66]

Goldsteins poor ruck play has cost NORTH the last two games.

I didn't see it, did his 39 hitouts go straight to Adelaide?

Let Nic Nat run unhindered at that mark last week. This week when they where defending a lead he wasnt seen in the defensive 50.

So those things prove you need to be a good tap ruckman? Not sure how that is poor ruck work. just seems like poor play.

[Cairnsman]

Hey let's not forget how young Ben is. He's still learning and like all young and developing players they will have consistency issues but make no mistake about it, there are probably 16 other clubs that would have him as a walk up start in their best 22.

[CURLY]

So those things prove you need to be a good tap ruckman? Not sure how that is poor ruck work. just seems like poor play.

Once is maybe poor play but twice is just poor ruck play.

[plugger66]

So those things prove you need to be a good tap ruckman? Not sure how that is poor ruck work. just seems like poor play.

Once is maybe poor play but twice is just poor ruck play.

This is about tap ruckmen. What you said has nothing to do with that topic.

[CURLY]

Im gobsmacked Ive been told to keep on topic by p66.

[plugger66]

Im gobsmacked Ive been told to keep on topic by p66.

I didnt say that but you do have trouble understanding things. What you said has nothing to do with a tap ruckman so you havent proved anything to this point. I think you understand the MRP and umpires much better.

[matrix]

get the hand on the cherry first you d think you would have more chance at winning the footy

you just need a ruckman and clearances players in synch
that doesnt happen over night

yet
we actually need a ruckman who can get the hand on the cherry first!

[BringBackMadDog]

Bens strong suit has will never be winning hitouts, he doesnt have a great leap and is not 208cm. His strengths are going to be defensive marking and a huge tank which will allow him to win a fair share of the ball around the ground. Unfortunately as the last two games have proven unless we learn how to rove the opposition ruckmen we will continue to get smashed in the centre clearances.

[mad saint guy]

McEvoy is 23. He isn't naturally a good tap ruckman, but he is steadily improving. Most big-bodied ruckmen don't peak until their mid/late 20s.

McEvoy's average stats so far this year are as follows:

13.6 disposals
5.1 marks
22.4 hitouts

Minson at the same age (23)

12.3 disposals
3.6 marks
14.6 hitouts

Dean Cox at 23

16.4 disposals
6.5 marks
23.8 hitouts

Aaron Sandilands at 23

12.8 disposals
4.6 makrs
24.6 hitouts


He is on track to become one of the premier rucks of the competition in 2-3 years time. Meanwhile, he's above average around the ground and below average in hitouts.

[sunsaint]

Bens strong suit has will never be winning hitouts, he doesnt have a great leap and is not 208cm. His strengths are going to be defensive marking and a huge tank which will allow him to win a fair share of the ball around the ground. Unfortunately as the last two games have proven unless we learn how to rove the opposition ruckmen we will continue to get smashed in the centre clearances.

agree with this
Ben seems to be the one having to take control on-field either by his natural leadership or the lack of our senior players being any good at strategy
SO I was hoping with Hayes back in the side he might bring some leadership back to the on-ball group
I was was staggeered to watch one boundary throw in, hayes standing at the front of contest, and there were four un-marked bulldogs on the defensive side which cleared the ball easily for a goal. The ruck dual was inconsequential, it was players on the ground making the positonal calls and stuffing up

[Old Mate]

I reckon he's tracking alright. Personally I think his poor games are a product of our current crop of midfielders and poor ruck and midfield coaching. He's got the talent and work rate to be one of the best ruckman he just needs a bit of direction.

[BigMart]

I'd take a good player over a tap Ruckman any day....

Win the hit out.... Advantage is about 55/45...

Hit outs vs results shows barely any correlation.....

What is nice, is to have a Ruckman who can play

[merimbula]

I think mcevoy does that!

[WinnersOnly]

McEvoy is 23. He isn't naturally a good tap ruckman, but he is steadily improving. Most big-bodied ruckmen don't peak until their mid/late 20s.

McEvoy's average stats so far this year are as follows:

13.6 disposals
5.1 marks
22.4 hitouts

Minson at the same age (23)

12.3 disposals
3.6 marks
14.6 hitouts

Dean Cox at 23

16.4 disposals
6.5 marks
23.8 hitouts

Aaron Sandilands at 23

12.8 disposals
4.6 makrs
24.6 hitouts


He is on track to become one of the premier rucks of the competition in 2-3 years time. Meanwhile, he's above average around the ground and below average in hitouts.

Remember the game has changed mad Saint and that when the players you mentioned we're playing they were the No 2 ruck man and sharing the duties 50/50 with a No 1 ruck man. McEvoy is the main man with 70% of the play in the ruck which highlights just how poor he is at this stage !

[WinnersOnly]

I'd take a good player over a tap Ruckman any day....

Win the hit out.... Advantage is about 55/45...

Hit outs vs results shows barely any correlation.....

What is nice, is to have a Ruckman who can play

When did McEvoy become a good player ? How many marks does he take against his rucking opponents (very few). How many marks does take when playing forward (very few), any hack can slide around defence picking off smaller opponents ! Bulldogs & Crows learnt from his game against Carlton and went around him or forward from his lost centre clearance.

IMO if he wants to become a good player he needs to take some grabs when rested forward and then convert them.

[plugger66]

Funny that we didnt hear from you until this week.

[BigMart]

Although I do believe Ben is a good player...

When did I mention that in my post.... I could have been referring to Dean Cox?!

Ben is actually one of the few ruckmen who can take a contested grab