Club Structures

[Vazelos]

The suggestion Luke Ball may become Captain at Collingwood makes me think about the man that made the decision to let him go who is no longer with us: Ross Lyin.
It can be argued his lack of respect for Ball may have cost us 2 flags due to not playing him in the last quarter against the Cats and then giving him to Collingwood in 2010. It frustrates me knowing the man that drove him out is now at another club and many would argue the decision allowing the exit of a quality person & player that helped define the fabric of our club in the noughties was an extremely poor one indeed.

This takes me to the point of club structures and whether football departments should have complete autonomy on every football decision.
Is their situations when a board has to step in and not ratify such a decision based on a club collective perspective?

Club cultures are also created & nurtured by the board & not just the football department.

All the great players at the Cats will retire at their club, I recall in 03/04 our list of talented players made a commitment to each other that they were going to stay tight & together they would change the history of the St kilda FC. Now Ball & Goddard are gone from that group, I know its a fine line & I agree with the club's stance on Goddard but with Ball that traitor made a significant blunder that cost us big time.

[defacto]

The suggestion Luke Ball may become Captain at Collingwood makes me think about the man that made the decision to let him go who is no longer with us: Ross Lyin.
It can be argued his lack of respect for Ball may have cost us 2 flags due to not playing him in the last quarter against the Cats and then giving him to Collingwood in 2010. It frustrates me knowing the man that drove him out is now at another club and many would argue the decision allowing the exit of a quality person & player that helped define the fabric of our club in the noughties was an extremely poor one indeed.

This takes me to the point of club structures and whether football departments should have complete autonomy on every football decision.
Is their situations when a board has to step in and not ratify such a decision based on a club collective perspective?

Club cultures are also created & nurtured by the board & not just the football department.

All the great players at the Cats will retire at their club, I recall in 03/04 our list of talented players made a commitment to each other that they were going to stay tight & together they would change the history of the St kilda FC. Now Ball & Goddard are gone from that group, I know its a fine line & I agree with the club's stance on Goddard but with Ball that traitor made a significant blunder that cost us big time.

50/50. sure lyon unfairly was giving it to ball. i am currently re-watching the 09 season. half way through the season and ball had helped pull the side over the line with his in and under football, in a couple of very close ones. he was critical.

ross was very hard on him towards the end. problem was ball took the easy option. the $$$ and seduction from the pies.

blame lies at the feet of ball and ross. others may have had an impact but at the end of the day, they were the 2 big decision makers.

[Vazelos]

2010 we had McQualter & Eddy playing in the Grand Final, now Ball may be captaining one of the flag favourites in 2013. When a player feels he hasnt the support of his coach its not easy to hang around. Extremely puzzling how this was allowed to happen but I guess Lyin was considered almost a genius at that time, his currency was very high. The point I am trying to make is the board are club people, they are there on a voluntray basis because they love the club. Coaches are hired guns there to perform a role. Sometimes the club perspective must be taken into account by club people & not always ratify every decision because the football department is seeking it. Its not easy to decide when this should happen but i believe this was one time when it should have. This is not the benefit of hindsight either, Ball is a class footballer & person & has showed more class in his little toe than Ross Lyin has in his whole body when it came to the manner of their respective exits.

[kosifantutti]

All the great players at the Cats will retire at their club,

Gary Ablett says hi.

[whiskers3614]

2010 we had McQualter & Eddy playing in the Grand Final, now Ball may be captaining one of the flag favourites in 2013. When a player feels he hasnt the support of his coach its not easy to hang around. Extremely puzzling how this was allowed to happen but I guess Lyin was considered almost a genius at that time, his currency was very high. The point I am trying to make is the board are club people, they are there on a voluntray basis because they love the club. Coaches are hired guns there to perform a role. Sometimes the club perspective must be taken into account by club people & not always ratify every decision because the football department is seeking it. Its not easy to decide when this should happen but i believe this was one time when it should have. This is not the benefit of hindsight either, Ball is a class footballer & person & has showed more class in his little toe than Ross Lyin has in his whole body when it came to the manner of their respective exits.

As I said in a previos post, I would have sacked Lyon immediately the siren sounded on "09 GF.
Ball stays Lovett doesn't come and Lyon is back to an assistants role somewhere!
We'd still probably only have one flag, but 2 D/Heads less(Lyon & Lovett)

[kosifantutti]

2010 we had McQualter & Eddy playing in the Grand Final, now Ball may be captaining one of the flag favourites in 2013. When a player feels he hasnt the support of his coach its not easy to hang around. Extremely puzzling how this was allowed to happen but I guess Lyin was considered almost a genius at that time, his currency was very high. The point I am trying to make is the board are club people, they are there on a voluntray basis because they love the club. Coaches are hired guns there to perform a role. Sometimes the club perspective must be taken into account by club people & not always ratify every decision because the football department is seeking it. Its not easy to decide when this should happen but i believe this was one time when it should have. This is not the benefit of hindsight either, Ball is a class footballer & person & has showed more class in his little toe than Ross Lyin has in his whole body when it came to the manner of their respective exits.

As I said in a previos post, I would have sacked Lyon immediately the siren sounded on "09 GF.
Ball stays Lovett doesn't come and Lyon is back to an assistants role somewhere!
We'd still probably only have one flag, but 2 D/Heads less(Lyon & Lovett)

Good idea. I said we should have sacked Allan Jeans immediately after the '65 Grand Final.

[whiskers3614]

Allan Jeans didn;t sideline Baldock and recruit some peanut over-paid Essendon reject!

[kosifantutti]

Allan Jeans didn;t sideline Baldock and recruit some peanut over-paid Essendon reject!

I don't think Lovett had been recruited before the final siren of 2009 GF. And Bail is no Baldock.

[plugger66]

2010 we had McQualter & Eddy playing in the Grand Final, now Ball may be captaining one of the flag favourites in 2013. When a player feels he hasnt the support of his coach its not easy to hang around. Extremely puzzling how this was allowed to happen but I guess Lyin was considered almost a genius at that time, his currency was very high. The point I am trying to make is the board are club people, they are there on a voluntray basis because they love the club. Coaches are hired guns there to perform a role. Sometimes the club perspective must be taken into account by club people & not always ratify every decision because the football department is seeking it. Its not easy to decide when this should happen but i believe this was one time when it should have. This is not the benefit of hindsight either, Ball is a class footballer & person & has showed more class in his little toe than Ross Lyin has in his whole body when it came to the manner of their respective exits.

As I said in a previos post, I would have sacked Lyon immediately the siren sounded on "09 GF.
Ball stays Lovett doesn't come and Lyon is back to an assistants role somewhere!
We'd still probably only have one flag, but 2 D/Heads less(Lyon & Lovett)

I take it you wanted the club to be the laughing stock of the AFL forever and a day. Imagine the uproar if that happened from 99% of Saints supporters and 100% of the rest of the AFL. And it is one that the media would never let us forget. By the way the 1% who would have wanted him sacked are the 1% of saints supporters that clearly take drugs that are harmful to them.

[whiskers3614]

And taking Lovett with a 1st rounder losing Ball for nothing, Lyon playing us on a break and taking condom fitter for nothing hasn't made us a laughing stock?
Sorry I forgot we have another runners up trophy in the cabinet!

[CURLY]

Ball is a dog you cant do anything about the kind of person Ball is. They want things their way no matter what.

[whiskers3614]

Ball is a dog you cant do anything about the kind of person Ball is. They want things their way no matter what.

And what does that make LYon?

[CURLY]

Ball is a dog you cant do anything about the kind of person Ball is. They want things their way no matter what.

And what does that make LYon?

Makes him coach thats what. Im sure Ball over the years didnt defend a player that Lyon expected more from. Id say he probably pushed young players himself. But when Ball was challenged hd sooked and went to the easiest option.

[Yaysaints]

Ball had under performed for about five years when he left. Collingwood may have won the first grannie against us and not needed a replay had he not been with them.
We paid him for year after year when he had o.p. and played like a slow waddling geriatric who couldn't kick ten metres. He left us dishonourably and ensured we got offered peanuts.

[St Ick]

Anyone recall Lyon dropping NDS, McEvoy and I think it was Milne too. He was a tough coach who demanded the best out of his players. Some respond favourably, others sooked because they've had people pissing in their pocket since the age of 5 and cant handle criticism. I dare say it was this hard ass approach that got the club to a whisker of two premierships.

I blame LB and only LB. Lyon was just doing his job and not giving preferencial (spelling?) treatment to the primadonna. End of story.

[CURLY]

Anyone recall Lyon dropping NDS, McEvoy and I think it was Milne too. He was a tough coach who demanded the best out of his players. Some respond favourably, others sooked because they've had people pissing in their pocket since the age of 5 and cant handle criticism. I dare say it was this hard ass approach that got the club to a whisker of two premierships.

I blame LB and only LB. Lyon was just doing his job and not giving preferencial (spelling?) treatment to the primadonna. End of story.

Correct.

[ROLS-LEE]

Anyone recall Lyon dropping NDS, McEvoy and I think it was Milne too. He was a tough coach who demanded the best out of his players. Some respond favourably, others sooked because they've had people pissing in their pocket since the age of 5 and cant handle criticism. I dare say it was this hard ass approach that got the club to a whisker of two premierships.

I blame LB and only LB. Lyon was just doing his job and not giving preferencial (spelling?) treatment to the primadonna. End of story.

Correct.

Agree as well.

Whether or not LB felt hard done by and wanted to leave fair enough, his decision, but how he did it is why i hate and will never respect LB.

[SaintPav]

2010 we had McQualter & Eddy playing in the Grand Final, now Ball may be captaining one of the flag favourites in 2013. When a player feels he hasnt the support of his coach its not easy to hang around. Extremely puzzling how this was allowed to happen but I guess Lyin was considered almost a genius at that time, his currency was very high. The point I am trying to make is the board are club people, they are there on a voluntray basis because they love the club. Coaches are hired guns there to perform a role. Sometimes the club perspective must be taken into account by club people & not always ratify every decision because the football department is seeking it. Its not easy to decide when this should happen but i believe this was one time when it should have. This is not the benefit of hindsight either, Ball is a class footballer & person & has showed more class in his little toe than Ross Lyin has in his whole body when it came to the manner of their respective exits.

As I said in a previos post, I would have sacked Lyon immediately the siren sounded on "09 GF.
Ball stays Lovett doesn't come and Lyon is back to an assistants role somewhere!
We'd still probably only have one flag, but 2 D/Heads less(Lyon & Lovett)

Good idea. I said we should have sacked Allan Jeans immediately after the '65 Grand Final.

Isn't there precedence? The club sacked Tony Jewel in 84 when we came second last..or was that last? Club wanted to come last to maintain its excellent 80s performance of being the cellar dwellers.

[BigMart]

In 2009 I was told he was hopeless and no loss.... By experts on here

Then he finished top 5 in a premiership B&F and followed that up with a better year.... Has been handled better.

His exit from StK and what we got for losing him was a disgrace, I posted that at the time.... Was typically shot down...

Some even tried to argue that it was a good thing... It was hilarious.

[Con Gorozidis]

In 2009 I was told he was hopeless and no loss.... By experts on here

Then he finished top 5 in a premiership B&F and followed that up with a better year.... Has been handled better.

His exit from StK and what we got for losing him was a disgrace, I posted that at the time.... Was typically shot down...

Some even tried to argue that it was a good thing... It was hilarious.

Lyon totally effed up the Luke Ball thing - without a doubt.
If Luke wanted to leave he wanted to leave - but heck at least get a 2nd rounder for him.
Was effing disgraceful.

[tweedaletomanning]

Anyone recall Lyon dropping NDS, McEvoy and I think it was Milne too. He was a tough coach who demanded the best out of his players. Some respond favourably, others sooked because they've had people pissing in their pocket since the age of 5 and cant handle criticism. I dare say it was this hard ass approach that got the club to a whisker of two premierships.

I blame LB and only LB. Lyon was just doing his job and not giving preferencial (spelling?) treatment to the primadonna. End of story.

Excellent Post!

Every (sane) supporter agrees with this.

[bergholt]

His exit from StK and what we got for losing him was a disgrace...

Didn't we have no negotiating position? Ball was out of contract and refused to talk to any other clubs than Collingwood. Collingwood knew they were in the box seat so they basically refused to deal fairly with us - as anyone would do in that situation. Short of treating him better do he wanted to stay, there was nothing we could really do.

[CURLY]

His exit from StK and what we got for losing him was a disgrace...

Didn't we have no negotiating position? Ball was out of contract and refused to talk to any other clubs than Collingwood. Collingwood knew they were in the box seat so they basically refused to deal fairly with us - as anyone would do in that situation. Short of treating him better do he wanted to stay, there was nothing we could really do.

Correct and the AFL allowed Collingwood to manipulate the draft to get him. At the time what was the club to do in regards to a trade? Yes thanks Collingwood we will take that donkey you dont want and heres a player that your desperate for. Supporters would be wrapt that we had Luke Rounds on our list in 2010 just to say we got something. Ball bent us over.

[SaintPav]

As they couldn't get the deal they wanted maybe they would have preferred him to stay and were hoping to convince him.

Still do not undersatnd how he slipped through to pick 30.

[SaintPav]

His exit from StK and what we got for losing him was a disgrace...

Didn't we have no negotiating position? Ball was out of contract and refused to talk to any other clubs than Collingwood. Collingwood knew they were in the box seat so they basically refused to deal fairly with us - as anyone would do in that situation. Short of treating him better do he wanted to stay, there was nothing we could really do.

Correct and the AFL allowed Collingwood to manipulate the draft to get him. At the time what was the club to do in regards to a trade? Yes thanks Collingwood we will take that donkey you dont want and heres a player that your desperate for. Supporters would be wrapt that we had Luke Rounds on our list in 2010 just to say we got something. Ball bent us over.

he did but Lyon and the Saints did the same to him. it's a brutal industry.