So far under Scott...

[SainterK]

Jack Steven cops an internal suspension for one week and a fine for drink driving
Jason Gram receives internal suspension which leads to subsequent sacking
Regardless of the fact there was no admission, Scott reiterates clubs respect for women after airport incident and pledges donation to charity
Milne cops a fine and is forced to apologise for poor on field language
Winmar gets cut after a less than favourable effort in his time trial and not being in adequate shape

There are probably more examples that I can't think of right now, but the club seems suddenly serious and not about to give people a little slap on the wrist.

I like it....

On field and off field, standards are being set.

[dragit]

Yes and the emphasis from this draft seemed to be "really strong characters", which is good, but I just hope they can play football better than our opponents too.

[R. Harvey 3 votes!]

It's simple, do the right thing or there's the door!

[Dr Spaceman]

[mad saint guy]

Is it that different to the previous coach?

Lovett sacked, the NZ four getting suspended from the club for a month, Schwarze getting the exact same Winmar treatment despite decent senior form ..

[Spinner]

So Winmar got sacked because he finished last in the time trial and was unfit? Where'd this come from?

[Spinner]

From Herald Sun...



Agent Paul Connors said Winmar returned from the players' six-week post-season break with his teammates and was cut after a bad time-trial.

“There’s no way this sort of thing should happen,” Connors said on his website sportsnewsfirst.com.au.
"It’s a poor reflection on the St Kilda football club and the system.

“It makes it extremely difficult for any player who is delisted after the national draft to be picked up by another club."

[Con Gorozidis]

what was the time and the distance?

[jmac101]

Pretty sure that they were going to delist him anyway. We wanted the spot so we could pick up a rookie or mature-ager.

Seems a bit silly that he would turn up unfit after a few disappointing seasons though. Doesn't exactly scream "you should keep taking a chance on me"...

[st_Trav_ofWA]

is it just me or is Paul Connors this generations Peter Jess ?? the bloke seems to try and make things personal all the time .. its a business decision AFL footy is a cut throat industry stop your sooking and telling the world how "this reflect poorly on St Kilda" when its just standard practice to delist players

[MC Gusto]

hes turned over 22 players in his first 2 years

[St Ick]

hes turned over 22 players in his first 2 years

Thats half the list in two years! Massive!!

[SainterK]

Is it that different to the previous coach?

Lovett sacked, the NZ four getting suspended from the club for a month, Schwarze getting the exact same Winmar treatment despite decent senior form ..

I'm sorry but I have to differ, no way would Scott have picked up Lovett in the first place given the importance he places on footballers being decent young men.

The NZ drama? That event woke Ross Lyon up to the fact he didn't give enough attention to the off field side of things, admitted that himself in an interview at the time, and introduced a working program to keep the young guys occupied. Keeping in mind this was a good 3 or more years into his tenure, and it was the first he'd thought of it.

It has probably resulted him in being a much better and in tune coach these days in regards to the welfare of his young players, but he certainly didn't come into coaching with a high expectation of discipline off field...he was excellent in creating a discipline on field however.

The bubble actually resulted in things simmering on well longer than they needed to, such was intention to protect the players from criticism.

I like the more transparent nature about the club now.

Scott is much more about preaching loyalty, which really encapsulates playing for your jumper, and caring about how your actions implicate that brand....

[kos]

List of players out since his arrival:
Goddard, gram, winmar, cripps, polo, peake, Crocker, Dawson, lynch, Walsh, baker, Cahill, gamble, smith, heyne, w Johnson,
Mcqualter, gardener, Clarke, + rookies

Players in:
Saad, milera, Ross, markworth, lever, newnes, Webster, hickey, lee, Dennis-lane, white, wright, Murdoch, Saunders, pierce
And dunell.

We are definitely heading in the right direction. The only outs of any substance are Goddard, gram, cripps , Dawson and gardener.

[dragit]

hes turned over 22 players in his first 2 years

22, but only one or two which we would have liked to keep… most of that 22 de-listed themsleves.

[Spinner]

List of players out since his arrival:
Goddard, gram, winmar, cripps, polo, peake, Crocker, Dawson, lynch, Walsh, baker, Cahill, gamble, smith, heyne, w Johnson,
Mcqualter, gardener, Clarke, + rookies

Players in:
Saad, milera, Ross, markworth, lever, newnes, Webster, hickey, lee, Dennis-lane, white, wright, Murdoch, Saunders, pierce
And dunell.

We are definitely heading in the right direction. The only outs of any substance are Goddard, gram, cripps , Dawson and gardener.

But gee - Dont we overrate the in's. Saad and Milera are the only ones in that list that have played 10 games for the saints... The rest have dont nothing thus far.

[gringo]

List of players out since his arrival:
Goddard, gram, winmar, cripps, polo, peake, Crocker, Dawson, lynch, Walsh, baker, Cahill, gamble, smith, heyne, w Johnson,
Mcqualter, gardener, Clarke, + rookies

Players in:
Saad, milera, Ross, markworth, lever, newnes, Webster, hickey, lee, Dennis-lane, white, wright, Murdoch, Saunders, pierce
And dunell.

We are definitely heading in the right direction. The only outs of any substance are Goddard, gram, cripps , Dawson and gardener.

But gee - Dont we overrate the in's. Saad and Milera are the only ones in that list that have played 10 games for the saints... The rest have dont nothing thus far.

To be fair he has also played Stanley, Steven and Armo in as many games as they were fit to play. Given responsibility to Geary and played him. Fast tracked Simpkin, Newnes, Milera and Saad. Gave game time to Dunell, restructured the playing positions of senior players and just gave a genuine go to the kids. Ross Lyon can coach on match day but as far as list management and developing kids he was along way behind where Scott is.

[Spinner]

List of players out since his arrival:
Goddard, gram, winmar, cripps, polo, peake, Crocker, Dawson, lynch, Walsh, baker, Cahill, gamble, smith, heyne, w Johnson,
Mcqualter, gardener, Clarke, + rookies

Players in:
Saad, milera, Ross, markworth, lever, newnes, Webster, hickey, lee, Dennis-lane, white, wright, Murdoch, Saunders, pierce
And dunell.

We are definitely heading in the right direction. The only outs of any substance are Goddard, gram, cripps , Dawson and gardener.

But gee - Dont we overrate the in's. Saad and Milera are the only ones in that list that have played 10 games for the saints... The rest have dont nothing thus far.

To be fair he has also played Stanley, Steven and Armo in as many games as they were fit to play. Given responsibility to Geary and played him. Fast tracked Simpkin, Newnes, Milera and Saad. Gave game time to Dunell, restructured the playing positions of senior players and just gave a genuine go to the kids. Ross Lyon can coach on match day but as far as list management and developing kids he was along way behind where Scott is.

Nicely put. Although not sure were the reference to Lyon came from...

[SaintPav]

I like the more transparent nature about the club now.

Don't kid yourself. They can't exactly sack players and keep it hush so I don't think they are being that transparent. They are also still denying certain transgressions and aren't admitting everything.

The club wants to be seen as being more transparent but in reality they are not.

Just like in any organisation, there's also a fair bit that needs to be kept in house.

[Dave McNamara]

List of players out since his arrival:
Goddard, gram, winmar, cripps, polo, peake, Crocker, Dawson, lynch, Walsh, baker, Cahill, gamble, smith, heyne, w Johnson,
Mcqualter, gardener, Clarke, + rookies

We are definitely heading in the right direction. The only outs of any substance are Goddard, gram, cripps , Dawson and gardener.

Hi Kos, I found your lists/ your take on this very interesting. Thank you. To your 'of substance' list I'd also add BakesFan and Jessie Smith.

So looking at those blokes on the list of the lost...

BakesFan and Big Show were finished.
Grammy was getting pretty close to the end.
Cripps... I suspect may end up at least somewhat of a loss...?

BJ well into his 'autumn', and unlikely to recapture his past elite form... and with (the usual requirement of) a tad of luck, we look like getting a pretty good return for his loss... of course ultimately only time will tell.

Zax Atttax... hmmmm...?
it would have been really, really interesting to have seen how he would have gone last year under Cuddle's less defensive system...
without the Ro$$y uber-caution approach to cover for him, left far more to his own devices...
would Zax have been shown up...?
or would he have stood tall...,
and in so doing... freed us up to execute our new more attacking game plan - but without the subsequent and ultimately fatal leakage going back the other way...?
IMHO, if the latter... we'd have been every chance to have played off in another GF...

So, losses...? Crippa' probably somewhat..., Zax possibly either huge or very little...(?) BJ yes, but nowhere what some fear..., and anyway, any effect of his loss would be only short term.

That leaves... yep... Jessie Smith.

That bloke was a much criticised punt which didn't end up working. Not sure why the criticism as we used only a pretty late draft pick. Unlike many, I reckon he was more than worth the punt.
If Jessie had been able to stand up...
top 10, probably top 5 talent...
but where people may or may not rank any player at the draft is ultimately irrelevant...
what is relevant is that Jessie Smith could actually play to those expectations... in the big time...!


Summary: My (maybe) left-field regret outta' those losses is that Jessie Smith's ankle didn't stand up, and hence he's not with us today.
Two missed flag opportunities in 2009/10...? Just throw a fit Jessie Smith into those Saintas GF sides...

Moral: There is another low-risk (hey, if things don't work out, he can go train with Nick Winmar), but very high-potential-reward bloke still in the year's draft system. You know who he is Saintas! Try and get him!

[st.byron]

List of players out since his arrival:
Goddard, gram, winmar, cripps, polo, peake, Crocker, Dawson, lynch, Walsh, baker, Cahill, gamble, smith, heyne, w Johnson,
Mcqualter, gardener, Clarke, + rookies

Players in:
Saad, milera, Ross, markworth, lever, newnes, Webster, hickey, lee, Dennis-lane, white, wright, Murdoch, Saunders, pierce
And dunell.

We are definitely heading in the right direction. The only outs of any substance are Goddard, gram, cripps , Dawson and gardener.

Thanks for the list Kos. Looking at that it seems we're taking really pro-active steps to re-new the list and you can bet they're including planning for when the older core retire.

[SaintPav]

What does Jesse Smith have to do with Scott Watters?

[Dave McNamara]

What does Jesse Smith have to do with Scott Watters?

I think you're correct Pav. On reflection, Jessie Smith would have left 'comfortably' before the arrival of Cuddles.

That said, too good a segue to let slip...

[saintly]

List of players out since his arrival:
Goddard, gram, winmar, cripps, polo, peake, Crocker, Dawson, lynch, Walsh, baker, Cahill, gamble, smith, heyne, w Johnson,
Mcqualter, gardener, Clarke, + rookies

Players in:
Saad, milera, Ross, markworth, lever, newnes, Webster, hickey, lee, Dennis-lane, white, wright, Murdoch, Saunders, pierce
And dunell.

We are definitely heading in the right direction. The only outs of any substance are Goddard, gram, cripps , Dawson and gardener.

But gee - Dont we overrate the in's. Saad and Milera are the only ones in that list that have played 10 games for the saints... The rest have dont nothing thus far.

it was Watters first season as coach.

[gringo]

List of players out since his arrival:
Goddard, gram, winmar, cripps, polo, peake, Crocker, Dawson, lynch, Walsh, baker, Cahill, gamble, smith, heyne, w Johnson,
Mcqualter, gardener, Clarke, + rookies

Players in:
Saad, milera, Ross, markworth, lever, newnes, Webster, hickey, lee, Dennis-lane, white, wright, Murdoch, Saunders, pierce
And dunell.

We are definitely heading in the right direction. The only outs of any substance are Goddard, gram, cripps , Dawson and gardener.

But gee - Dont we overrate the in's. Saad and Milera are the only ones in that list that have played 10 games for the saints... The rest have dont nothing thus far.

it was Watters first season as coach.

It was also the first season for Saad, Dunnel, Ross, newnes and milera and Simpkins first real season as a senior player. It's pretty tough to suggest that they are overrated yet as they have just started. If you add the improvement in Armo, Steven and Siposs he's done a pretty decent overhaul with little loss of ladder position.