Tom Ledger

[Con Gorozidis]

I reckon the Sam Dunell elevation could have been the last straw for Tom Ledger's state of mind.
With Newnes Steven Armo Cripps Markworth ahead of him for midfield spots I would say he will be looking for a move to Freo if he can get one.

[joffaboy]

Maybe - Tom Walsh has been no great loss. Lynch either. Both were bemoaned on here as the next saviours and the coach had no idea.

If Ledger goes, so be it. Not as if Watters is scared of playing young players.

He obviously doesn't think he is ready.

[slider]

Why do people keep pumping up Ledgers tyres? this has got me beat.

Someone show me somewhere that Ledger deserves an elevation? and please tell me you have been to Sandy games and training and viewed him in action, duh i bet yo aint pffft

[BigMart]

Have Lynch an Walsh failed??

Their sides are top 4.... Tough to break into

[Quixote]

I wouldn't lose any sleep.

If he's worth his mettle he'll tough it out and earn the midfield spot that awaits him.

[skeptic]

Both were bemoaned on here as the next saviours and the coach had no idea.

Yeah see I don't think that actually happened.

People were frustrated because Lyon used them poorly and didn't develop them well. Further to that it was disappointing to see to kids that really loved the club (or so it appeared) at one point or another, not being able to leave the Saints fast enough.

Keep spinning the argument though

[saintsRrising]

Have Lynch an Walsh failed??

Their sides are top 4.... Tough to break into

Why is that relevant?...you have post after post that Armo should have played more despite Saints being such a dominant team.


It beats me how if we had of kept everyone from Walsh, to Goose, to X to Lynch...that we could have also had room (now that for the last two seasons including Lyon's last year) for players like Saad, Milera, Curren.


Ledger IS promising BUT this is a year when Steven and Armo have stepped up and players like Saad, Milera, Newnes and Dunnell have emerged. Dunnell for example demanded a go due to consistent good form... and despite playing well in his one game as a sub may be squeezed out by Steven and BJ. (maybe not if Gwilt goes for Steven , and Wilkes for BJ).

Ledger has aspects of his game and fitness to work on, and is still very you, Dunnell is for example 22 and just getting a crack now.

Quite simply other new players have deserved a spot in the 22 more. This does not mean though that Ledger does not have a future at the Saints.

[White Winmar]

Why the obsession with Tom going home to WA and Fremantle? He's a young player trying to make his way in a very tough environment. He has obviously failed to meet the expectations of the coaching panel and will have to get his head down and keep working hard. When he has earned a spot, he will no doubt get it. SW has shown he is willing to reward young talent with a game. He could also have a dose of the 2nd year blues, which is after all, fairly common. I'm sure he has a future at the saints and he has shown glimpses of talent and genuine pace. Another pre-season and he may be ready to fire. Give the boy a break. If every kid wanted to "go home" after a disappointing year, there would be a lot more player movement across lists than we currently see.

[dragit]

Oh the drama of it all…

How do you have the faintest idea about his state of mind Con?

Maybe he was made aware at the very beginning of the year that he probably wouldn't get a game this year with his lack of endurance? Maybe he is fine with that… who would know.

I'm sure he would be smart enough to recognise that Hayes, Dal, Joey, Armo & Steven are the ones keeping him out of the side for good reasons at the moment. I don't think Newnes, Markworth & Cripps are even in contention for the same spot.

[Eastern]

From what I can gather Ledger is an inside/outside midfielder (Scott W seems to like players that can do both). That would mean that he's competing with;

Lenny Hayes, David Armitage, Nick DalSanto, Jack Steven, Brendon Goddard, Clint Jones for a spot. Who, from that group would he replace?

[8856brother]

Saad wasn't setting the world alight in the VFL by anyone's standards. Gets a chance, and guess what?

[saintsRrising]

Saad wasn't setting the world alight in the VFL by anyone's standards. Gets a chance, and guess what?

Yes let's ignore his amazing year in the VFL last year and good pre-season

Ledger has if you believe the goss an insufficient tank to run out games (he will develop this over time) whereas Saad at 22 is in his prime and much fitter.

Ledger impressed myself pre-season...but you would have to say the club has handled blooding of players very well.

On the selection of Newnes I thought WTF. But when he played you could see why.

Ledger will get a crack when he deserves it and opportunity presents. Asa midfielder opportunity is limited.

Personally I am a Ray fan...but Ray has been in and out of the team as competition is fierce.

[saber]

Oh the drama of it all…

How do you have the faintest idea about his state of mind Con?

Maybe he was made aware at the very beginning of the year that he probably wouldn't get a game this year with his lack of endurance? Maybe he is fine with that… who would know.

I'm sure he would be smart enough to recognise that Hayes, Dal, Joey, Armo & Steven are the ones keeping him out of the side for good reasons at the moment. I don't think Newnes, Markworth & Cripps are even in contention for the same spot.

+1 to above.

I think he's the perfect replacement for Lenny should Lenny not decide to go on next year. He could quite easily replace Jones (in terms of his in and under work, and certainly his kicking), but not in tagging. That could be left to Ray, or maybe Curren???

[plugger66]

Have Lynch an Walsh failed??

Their sides are top 4.... Tough to break into

Why is that relevant?...you have post after post that Armo should have played more despite Saints being such a dominant team.


It beats me how if we had of kept everyone from Walsh, to Goose, to X to Lynch...that we could have also had room (now that for the last two seasons including Lyon's last year) for players like Saad, Milera, Curren.


Ledger IS promising BUT this is a year when Steven and Armo have stepped up and players like Saad, Milera, Newnes and Dunnell have emerged. Dunnell for example demanded a go due to consistent good form... and despite playing well in his one game as a sub may be squeezed out by Steven and BJ. (maybe not if Gwilt goes for Steven , and Wilkes for BJ).

Ledger has aspects of his game and fitness to work on, and is still very you, Dunnell is for example 22 and just getting a crack now.

Quite simply other new players have deserved a spot in the 22 more. This does not mean though that Ledger does not have a future at the Saints.

Was about to post the exact same thing. it is amazing some of these hindsighters use the same argument but are arguing against themselves. Anyway why do people think Ledger will leave. he may love Melbourne or even our club. He may be delisted. I will back he stays.

[Austinnn]

Interesting conjecture (OP), though totally groudless.

Other posters make better cases. It would be good to know a bit more from the coaches about where they think he's at and what they'be told him, but if that's inner sanctum stuff, I'm happy enough as long as Tom is.

He seems like a good guy and I think if he gets a chance he'll take it, though I have never seen him play so what do I know.

I think we've let enough guys leave and then come good haven't we? McGuire this weekend, Ball last year, even Khan H the rookie from NSW is doing alright now. I hope this isn't a coaching blind spot or some personal vendetta.

With Milera, Saad, McEvoy, Steven, Armo, Siposs, Simpkin, Newnes, and now Dunnell all looking like the future for St Kilda, it would be ok if it took Ledge and Cripps another year or two to come through. I really hope they stick at it with us, from what I've read I think Tom in particular could be worth waiting for.

Now let's hope that Mitchington, Lever, Ferguson, Curren, Markworth, can do what Archer and Winmar seem unable to do and that is take their game to the next level. Not everyone will make it, unfortunately.

[BigMart]

Yes SR

The club was right, looking back they got everything right.... Just unlucky I guess, the bounce of the ball eh...

Question
Who is a better player
Armitage or Eddy???

That's one question, would you like a few more....

Who is better
Lynch or Taylor Walker
Lynch or Porplezia
Lynch or Tippett

They are a good unit up front.... Lynch has not FAILED yet!!
Nor has Walsh.....

They may well fail, but not sure just yet...

[ShanghaiSaint]

I reckon the Sam Dunell elevation could have been the last straw for Tom Ledger's state of mind.
With Newnes Steven Armo Cripps Markworth ahead of him for midfield spots I would say he will be looking for a move to Freo if he can get one.

is Ledger that good? I have seen a few of his games at sandy didn't jump up at me...

[mr six o'clock]

I reckon the Sam Dunell elevation could have been the last straw for Tom Ledger's state of mind.
With Newnes Steven Armo Cripps Markworth ahead of him for midfield spots I would say he will be looking for a move to Freo if he can get one.

is Ledger that good? I have seen a few of his games at sandy didn't jump up at me...

agree
i've seen 3 sandi games this year , ledger has done some good things , but he also turns it over allot !

[plugger66]

Yes SR

The club was right, looking back they got everything right.... Just unlucky I guess, the bounce of the ball eh...

Question
Who is a better player
Armitage or Eddy???

That's one question, would you like a few more....

Who is better
Lynch or Taylor Walker
Lynch or Porplezia
Lynch or Tippett

They are a good unit up front.... Lynch has not FAILED yet!!
Nor has Walsh.....

They may well fail, but not sure just yet...

Do you ever answer what is posed to you. You stated it is hard for Walsh and Lynch because they are in top 4 sides but then whinge about Armo when we lost 2 games for the year. Of course Armo is better now. Was he better for the side in 2009? Do you think RL wanted a worse player in the side? I doubt it but at the time and with RL structures Eddy was obviously better for the side. Armo lacked run and spread back then or something else that was required. You alway happily forget Armo played 13 games in the previous year so was given plenty of chances and logic suggests he was sent back to improve some aspects of his game. Doesnt suit hindsighters or people who dont understand structures in sides. You know those people who would drop 3 talls for 3 smalls because they are the 23-25 players. Balance and structure doesnt matter to them.

[hAyES]

From what I can gather Ledger is an inside/outside midfielder (Scott W seems to like players that can do both). That would mean that he's competing with;

Lenny Hayes, David Armitage, Nick DalSanto, Jack Steven, Brendon Goddard, Clint Jones for a spot. Who, from that group would he replace?

Jones is an outside midfielder? He's a tagger and a tagger only.

I reckon the Sam Dunell elevation could have been the last straw for Tom Ledger's state of mind.
With Newnes Steven Armo Cripps Markworth ahead of him for midfield spots I would say he will be looking for a move to Freo if he can get one.

is Ledger that good? I have seen a few of his games at sandy didn't jump up at me...

He's a ball magnet, gets amongst the goals and is very quick but he gets a bit bomby at times and sometimes those kicks end up in opposition hands. Not sure why he hasn't really gotten an opportunity yet but when he does he will be a quality player for us.

[Mitch35]

There is no doubt Ledger is a ball magnet, averaging 24 disposals for Sandy (up to 30 June). His issue is his disposal efficiency is down at 61%. Last 3 games (up to 30 June) he was in the 50-60% region.

Ray (69%), Peake (73%) and Ross (71%) all are better than Ledger in this regard at VFL level.

[Con Gorozidis]

There is no doubt Ledger is a ball magnet, averaging 24 disposals for Sandy (up to 30 June). His issue is his disposal efficiency is down at 61%. Last 3 games (up to 30 June) he was in the 50-60% region.

Ray (69%), Peake (73%) and Ross (71%) all are better than Ledger in this regard at VFL level.

i have decided im not convinced by disposal efficiency stats. look at saturday night. CJ and Golbo have very high % and Joey and Dal have lower.
the reality is Dal and Joey get their ball in clearances/heavy traffic so often have to do a quick kick fwd which lowers their %. But delivering inside 50 for a disposal out wide - ud take joey and dal any day over those other 2. And ledger tends to play in the clearances/traffic so not sure disposal % is the be all and end all of stats.

[savatage]

There is no doubt Ledger is a ball magnet, averaging 24 disposals for Sandy (up to 30 June). His issue is his disposal efficiency is down at 61%. Last 3 games (up to 30 June) he was in the 50-60% region.

Ray (69%), Peake (73%) and Ross (71%) all are better than Ledger in this regard at VFL level.

i have decided im not convinced by disposal efficiency stats. look at saturday night. CJ and Golbo have very high % and Joey and Dal have lower.
the reality is Dal and Joey get their ball in clearances/heavy traffic so often have to do a quick kick fwd which lowers their %. But delivering inside 50 for a disposal out wide - ud take joey and dal any day over those other 2. And ledger tends to play in the clearances/traffic so not sure disposal % is the be all and end all of stats.

Yep exactly.

[dragit]

There is no doubt Ledger is a ball magnet, averaging 24 disposals for Sandy (up to 30 June). His issue is his disposal efficiency is down at 61%. Last 3 games (up to 30 June) he was in the 50-60% region.

Ray (69%), Peake (73%) and Ross (71%) all are better than Ledger in this regard at VFL level.

i have decided im not convinced by disposal efficiency stats. look at saturday night. CJ and Golbo have very high % and Joey and Dal have lower.
the reality is Dal and Joey get their ball in clearances/heavy traffic so often have to do a quick kick fwd which lowers their %. But delivering inside 50 for a disposal out wide - ud take joey and dal any day over those other 2. And ledger tends to play in the clearances/traffic so not sure disposal % is the be all and end all of stats.

Yep exactly.

It's a very good point Con…
Dal, Joey, Milne all in our bottom 5 for disposal efficiency, yet clearly some of our most skillful players
Where our top 5 are Blake, McEvoy, Ray, Clarke & Dempster - a lot of safe backline/switching passes you would assume.

CJ's % is pretty decent too at 74%, but only because he refuses to kick the ball, with good reason as he is clearly one of the worst kicks in the comp.

Another misleading stat on pure numbers is clearances, last year Geelong and a few other very good sides were right down the bottom, while Port, Brisbane and GCS were up the top with Sydney. Of course clearances are vital, winning the stat obviously doesn't win you games… 1 quality clearance would out-weigh 4-5 scrappy ones…

[spert]

Obviously Ledger has a lot of competition with our smalls & mids. Unfortunately he will need to try a lot harder to break into that group, and I m sure SW will give him a game if he is up to it.