Gilbert's disposal is killing us

[older saint]

Gilbert provides great run and carry out of defence and is a good mark, however his disposal efficiency yesterday and again for the last 12 months was around 55%. This means around half the time he disposes of the ball (usually in the back half) it is to a contest or the opposition.

With kicking efficiency so critical ( and why Hawthorn are so good) in modern football this in killing the tream. i can think of 2 spot up kicks whihc were turnovers which lead ot goals yeesterday.

We need his size and run and carry so they need rules for him from a team perspective:
if running out of defence look for handball running past
If above not on kick 50 + metres and out of corridoor so at least if you turn it over it is at least 70-100 metres form goal.

Or play him across half forward.

[BigMart]

His turnovers are generally huge..... Tries to spear 40m passes off HB.... Causing a fast turnover

Yesterday's turnover was huge

[Spinner]

I'd trade Gilbert for anything we could get. He is the most overrated player in the AFL.

[evertonfc]

Before anyone comes steaming in to say you shouldn't crack down on one player...

Gilbert is the discussion that needs to be had. He's been at the club for so long but steadfastly refuses to improve his skill level, especially kicking on his right foot. Each summer I hope he'll be the player who decides to cut short his pre-season holiday so he can kick 1000+ plus balls a day on his right foot in training. Think about it. That's 50,000 kicks over two months. That's enough to train the brain and the body to become proficient on either side of the body.

I've always wanted to Gilbo to succeed but the combination of his poor decision making (over-estimating his ability to hit targets) and poor skill set frequently results in the ball being turned over in crucial areas of the park.

This is not picking on Gilbo because for no reason. It's not Gilbo-hate. It's because we need to be a better team and never before have our defenders needed to be better, especially now that we've lost some key defenders in recent years.

He can run and carry the ball, and find the ball, but he's such a prolific turnover merchant that it's costing the team goals.

When you turn the ball over through the midfield, the defence doesn't have time to flood the defensive zone, enabling cheap goals. That's what he is costing us at the moment when he fails to hit a pass. The opposition have realised this.

I hate to say it but Spinner is right - he's overrated. If he doesn't improve, I'd trade on that hype at the end of the season for something of real value.

[magnifisaint]

What about Clint Jones?

At least Gilbert can kick over 40m

[Old Mate]

What about Clint Jones?

At least Gilbert can kick over 40m

Jones bleeds for the club however only god knows how someone with such poor skills can be an AFL listed player let alone get a regular game.

[perfectionist]

I'd trade Gilbert for anything we could get....

A 1993 Hyundai Excel manual?

[treva23]

What about Clint Jones?

At least Gilbert can kick over 40m

Jones bleeds for the club however only god knows how someone with such poor skills can be an AFL listed player let alone get a regular game.

Everytime Jones goes to kick the ball its like russian roulette, You have no idea whats going to happen, such an awkward technique, so im over the moon with amazement and joy when he kicks a goal like he did yesterday. But his work rate is fantastic.

[stkfc1]

It amazes me that at this level, the kicking skills of some players is suburban at best. I know every team has one or two, but we have too many athletes and not enough FOOTballers. In this day and age you can't carry more than one or two. To make my point Hawthorn had only one player with under 70% disposal efficiency. We had 9.(That being said, our total DE was 72%, Port's was 66% !) I know it's only the first round and all, but we need to address this sooner rather than later or we are going to get carved up by the better teams.

[Spinner]

I'd trade Gilbert for anything we could get....

A 1993 Hyundai Excel manual?

In a heart beat!

What's worse is that he chooses to kick to a three on one... And doesn't hit the target. It's the decision coupled with the execution.

[ralphsmith]

It amazes me that at this level, the kicking skills of some players is suburban at best. I know every team has one or two, but we have too many athletes and not enough FOOTballers.

Well bloody said.

Please STkilda! Do something about! It is so painful to watch these player like Gilbert and Jones play FOOTball.

[Bushman]

Both have spent too much time at the Jason Daniels school of disposal. Gilbert is by far the worst offender, I shudder whenever he's about to kick. He must think he's a great kick so takes risks that he clearly does not have the skill to pull off, at least Jones does his best to mitigate his lack of kicking skills.

[The darkness]

The most frustrating thing is its rnd 1 so youd think over the whole pre season and the seasons and pre seasons before , every coach has said to Gilbo "you need to improve your disposal "
So we get to rnd 1 and its like friggin ground hog day , same bloke , same piss poor disposal ! Time is running out for Gilbo as every man and his dog are realising that Gilbo aint going to improve. So do we cost ourselves 2 to 3 goals a game or do we give someone else a go ?
Some have said to put him further up the ground, but poor disposal anywhere on the field with the speed at which the ball moves is playing with fire. If your not up to the MINIMUM level of skill required at AFL senior level than either get back to the reserves or do the utmost to improve or reduce your negative impact on your fellow team mates

[dragit]

Gilbert, Blake, Jones - awful kicks, just awful

Geary, Dempster, Gram, Raph, Peake, Ray, Riewoldt, Kosi, are all questionable kicks in terms of consistency…

Thats 11 (baker & dawson departed), put that up against Hawthorn at the moment…

fortunately these guys are all older, from here on we can only look at players who can use the ball, no good finding it if you can't get it on to one of our players?

[bergholt]

Each summer I hope he'll be the player who decides to cut short his pre-season holiday so he can kick 1000+ plus balls a day on his right foot in training. Think about it. That's 50,000 kicks over two months.

genuine curiosity - is this actually possible? i know there was that talk a couple of years ago that misson didn't want them kicking too much because it was bad for their hamstrings.

and i just can't think of any afl player who's improved disposal from poor to proficient at any point in their career. maybe it's because i don't watch close enough, but basically every player who starts out a bad kick seems to also end up one. stewie loewe went from a poor kick at goal to an ok one, but that didn't affect his field kicking hugely as i remember.

is it actually possible for a player to improve skills? or are they all just stuck with what they got?

[evertonfc]

Each summer I hope he'll be the player who decides to cut short his pre-season holiday so he can kick 1000+ plus balls a day on his right foot in training. Think about it. That's 50,000 kicks over two months.

genuine curiosity - is this actually possible? i know there was that talk a couple of years ago that misson didn't want them kicking too much because it was bad for their hamstrings.

and i just can't think of any afl player who's improved disposal from poor to proficient at any point in their career. maybe it's because i don't watch close enough, but basically every player who starts out a bad kick seems to also end up one. stewie loewe went from a poor kick at goal to an ok one, but that didn't affect his field kicking hugely as i remember.

is it actually possible for a player to improve skills? or are they all just stuck with what they got?

Sam Fisher was a turnover merchant in his first two years at the top level - before the penny dropped in a match late 2005 v Bulldogs at the MCG when he was switched to defence and played a blinder. He showed it can be done.

My mail was he trained his socks off learning how to kick as a defender (under pressure, on the run, etc) rather than as a key forward as he was drafted.

Gilbert is coming from a long way back - he was a rugby league player until his teens - but if he put the hard yards in when it came to being able to kick on his other boot, he'd be an enormous asset to our backline.

Sadly the game is losing tolerance for those players with such glaring deficiencies. I'm really disappointed in his decision not to eliminate these problems from his game. His athletic ability meant he really could have been a tremendous player for us.

[plugger66]

Each summer I hope he'll be the player who decides to cut short his pre-season holiday so he can kick 1000+ plus balls a day on his right foot in training. Think about it. That's 50,000 kicks over two months.

genuine curiosity - is this actually possible? i know there was that talk a couple of years ago that misson didn't want them kicking too much because it was bad for their hamstrings.

and i just can't think of any afl player who's improved disposal from poor to proficient at any point in their career. maybe it's because i don't watch close enough, but basically every player who starts out a bad kick seems to also end up one. stewie loewe went from a poor kick at goal to an ok one, but that didn't affect his field kicking hugely as i remember.

is it actually possible for a player to improve skills? or are they all just stuck with what they got?

Sam Fisher was a turnover merchant in his first two years at the top level - before the penny dropped in a match late 2005 v Bulldogs at the MCG when he was switched to defence and played a blinder. He showed it can be done.

My mail was he trained his socks off learning how to kick as a defender (under pressure, on the run, etc) rather than as a key forward as he was drafted.

Gilbert is coming from a long way back - he was a rugby league player until his teens - but if he put the hard yards in when it came to being able to kick on his other boot, he'd be an enormous asset to our backline.

Sadly the game is losing tolerance for those players with such glaring deficiencies. I'm really disappointed in his decision not to eliminate these problems from his game. His athletic ability meant he really could have been a tremendous player for us.

If Same kicked a 1000 balls a day in preseason his kicking wouldnt be an issue. he would be out for the who season injured.

[perfectionist]

... He's been at the club for so long but steadfastly refuses to improve his skill level, especially kicking on his right foot. Each summer I hope he'll be the player who decides to cut short his pre-season holiday so he can kick 1000+ plus balls a day on his right foot in training. Think about it. That's 50,000 kicks over two months....

All skills are hard to improve, but kicking is the hardest because of the number of factors which go to make a good kick. There is no doubt that some people are naturally gifted in kicking, which is not to say that they don't practice or there was no need to teach them when they were young. Those who have observed the Little League (or whatever it is called now) will notice that by that age, some children already have the skill and some on both sides. I am amazed that people still think the secret to improved kicking skill lies in kicking the football more. All that does is reinforce bad technique, especially when kicking for goal. The main reason that players miss for goal is that they kick the ball in the wrong direction - obvious but true. This was seen in Nick's kick in the third quarter - it went in exactly the direction that he aimed. The question is, why did he aim one metre to the right of the right goal post? What should happen is that a person's technique should be analysed to determine what is wrong and a realistic assessment made on the level of improvement possible. For Sam, there is no hope.

At St Kilda, I can count of the fingers of one hand the number of players who have actually improved their kicking whilst at the club. First, there is Stewart Loewe. Then, there is...