Ruckmen - what we have learnt form the drafts

[Con Gorozidis]

Well it seems our coaching staff have serious faith in Kosi and Stanley to play in the ruck during 2012.

The focus on medium fwds - shows a combo of where they think the game is heading and what they think of our current list.

So Kosi will be definitely playing Ruck - and they obviously all think Stanley is AFL standard.

[dragit]

I suppose they may as well get rid of Stanley if they don't think he is up to AFL standard though?

[Con Gorozidis]

I suppose they may as well get rid of Stanley if they don't think he is up to AFL standard though?

i genuinely dont understand what you mean here?

Didnt I say that they DO think Stanley is AFL standard?

[jays]

that is very true

[Junction Oval]

We definitely need the forwards that they have picked up, but a back-up ruckman would have been nice insurance.

It is interesting that Hawthorn thought it appropriate to pick up ex Saint/Tiger, Pattison.

[dcstkfc]

We have gone down the path of going for skilful, versatile players. Looking at Geelong and Collingwood, positions 16-22 have often been filled by the likes of Sidebottom, Beams, Blair, Krakouer (COLL) or Byrnes, Stokes, Menzel, Varcoe (GEEL).

Small-medium goal-kickers who can rotate through the forward line rather than just play one role and can be dangerous in their own right. It's about finding an upgrade on Gram, Armitage, Gamble, Ray, Peake. Not necessarily easy, but that is the direction it would seem.

[stinger]

well.....and it's early days ....the players drafted in the main are good sized, speedy, can take a mark with some of them being regarded by their former coaches as being exceptional to very good kicks.....makes a change from the past few years....

[dcstkfc]

well.....and it's early days ....the players drafted in the main are good sized, speedy, can take a mark with some of them being regarded by their former coaches as being exceptional to very good kicks.....makes a change from the past few years....

I'm sure we talked up Heyne. And Smith. And Cahill. And Willy Jay. And Hutchings.

[mad saint guy]

I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.

We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.

[Junction Oval]

Could've/should've brought Pattison back - a ready-made ruckman ???

[dcstkfc]

I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.

We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.

It is a bit of a concern. But we should remember that the game has changed significantly in two years. Each team really only needs 1.5 ruckmen in their 22 now because of the sub rule.

[savatage]

Takes me back to when we had Capuano & we elected to sack him because the shorter Matt Maguire & Jason Blake actually had more influence than him.

No point picking talls for the sake of it. If they have no ability - you've just got a tall, useless lug on your list.

I'd rather have more capable players....later on if you have too many similar sized capable players - you trade for a decent tall or different type come that time of year.

[borderbarry]

Well we did pick up Lever. He went to the Draft Combine as a ruckman. And he has the height.

[Con Gorozidis]

I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.

We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.

i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)

[dragit]

I suppose they may as well get rid of Stanley if they don't think he is up to AFL standard though?

i genuinely dont understand what you mean here?

Didnt I say that they DO think Stanley is AFL standard?

I wasn't having a go, just saying that he wouldn't remain on the list if they didn't think he was going to be AFL level… make or break for him this year probably.

FWIW - I reckon there would have been an absolute outcry if we'd picked up pattison again, what have we got - McEvoy, Kosi, Stanley, Blake & Lever who could play there?

Is Blake really 189? If so there are 14 other blokes taller than him on our list…

[plugger66]

I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.

We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.

i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)

We lost two that played and none that played this year and have recruited none that have played yet so we are two down from previous years and not 4 or we are none down from this year. Sandy are a couple down though. Sorry but i dont care about them.

[stinger]

well.....and it's early days ....the players drafted in the main are good sized, speedy, can take a mark with some of them being regarded by their former coaches as being exceptional to very good kicks.....makes a change from the past few years....

I'm sure we talked up Heyne. And Smith. And Cahill. And Willy Jay. And Hutchings.

no...heyne yes.....the rest were all long shots to make it.....did hutchings get picked up this year..???...had a few good games in the west according to loris...never given a sniff even by a former coach who shall remain nameless....

[Rosco]

We definitely need the forwards that they have picked up, but a back-up ruckman would have been nice insurance.

It is interesting that Hawthorn thought it appropriate to pick up ex Saint/Tiger, Pattison.

yeah, pattison as well as mccauly.

however they did have roughy rucking last year (before he went down)...

[Con Gorozidis]

I suppose they may as well get rid of Stanley if they don't think he is up to AFL standard though?

i genuinely dont understand what you mean here?

Didnt I say that they DO think Stanley is AFL standard?

I wasn't having a go, just saying that he wouldn't remain on the list if they didn't think he was going to be AFL level… make or break for him this year probably.

FWIW - I reckon there would have been an absolute outcry if we'd picked up pattison again, what have we got - McEvoy, Kosi, Stanley, Blake & Lever who could play there?

Is Blake really 189? If so there are 14 other blokes taller than him on our list…

yep agree.
cant believe blake is 189cm. thats like lenny height.

[Spinner]

I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.

We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.

i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)

We lost two that played and none that played this year and have recruited none that have played yet so we are two down from previous years and not 4 or we are none down from this year. Sandy are a couple down though. Sorry but i dont care about them.

Good point. Gardiner was not present this year. Thus same ruck division.


Rucks - McEvoy, Stanley, Koschitzke, Blake.

Wilkes to play forward.

Picking up some ruckman kid isnt going to make a difference in 2012... Nor is some hack like Patterson.

[savatage]

I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.

We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.

i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)

We lost two that played and none that played this year and have recruited none that have played yet so we are two down from previous years and not 4 or we are none down from this year. Sandy are a couple down though. Sorry but i dont care about them.

Good point. Gardiner was not present this year. Thus same ruck division.


Rucks - McEvoy, Stanley, Koschitzke, Blake.

Wilkes to play forward.

Picking up some ruckman kid isnt going to make a difference in 2012... Nor is some hack like Patterson.

Correct weight.

It's funny, when he was drafted people were ropable, when he was delisted people said I told you so, now that he's been drafted to another club - all of a sudden we should've taken him/hung onto him?

[Gershwin]

I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.

We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.

i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)

We lost two that played and none that played this year and have recruited none that have played yet so we are two down from previous years and not 4 or we are none down from this year. Sandy are a couple down though. Sorry but i dont care about them.

Good point. Gardiner was not present this year. Thus same ruck division.


Rucks - McEvoy, Stanley, Koschitzke, Blake.

Wilkes to play forward.

Picking up some ruckman kid isnt going to make a difference in 2012... Nor is some hack like Patterson.

Correct weight.

It's funny, when he was drafted people were ropable, when he was delisted people said I told you so, now that he's been drafted to another club - all of a sudden we should've taken him/hung onto him?

If McEvoy and Kossie are injured and we have no big body to at least contest then we will get slaughtered.
Stanley and Blake - if I was an opposing ruckman I would be giggling.

[Spinner]

I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.

We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.

i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)

We lost two that played and none that played this year and have recruited none that have played yet so we are two down from previous years and not 4 or we are none down from this year. Sandy are a couple down though. Sorry but i dont care about them.

Good point. Gardiner was not present this year. Thus same ruck division.


Rucks - McEvoy, Stanley, Koschitzke, Blake.

Wilkes to play forward.

Picking up some ruckman kid isnt going to make a difference in 2012... Nor is some hack like Patterson.

Correct weight.

It's funny, when he was drafted people were ropable, when he was delisted people said I told you so, now that he's been drafted to another club - all of a sudden we should've taken him/hung onto him?

How many ruckmen get drafted in the top ten every year. How many develop into decent ruckmen.... How many take 6-8 years to begin to win their position.

Ruck is a tough position and IMO the most influential on the ground. Dominate, and you significantly improve any midfield - Get destroyed and you significantly limit any midfield.

McIntosh, Gardiner, Fraser, Ryder... All have taken years to begin winning their position. All top tens.

Angwin, Patterson, Brooks all first rounders and all duds.



My strategy would be, get the first rounder you would draft a kid ruckman with, and couple that with whatever - And trade for an established proven, dominent ruckman.

Its price effective.

[savatage]

I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.

We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.

i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)

We lost two that played and none that played this year and have recruited none that have played yet so we are two down from previous years and not 4 or we are none down from this year. Sandy are a couple down though. Sorry but i dont care about them.

Good point. Gardiner was not present this year. Thus same ruck division.


Rucks - McEvoy, Stanley, Koschitzke, Blake.

Wilkes to play forward.

Picking up some ruckman kid isnt going to make a difference in 2012... Nor is some hack like Patterson.

Correct weight.

It's funny, when he was drafted people were ropable, when he was delisted people said I told you so, now that he's been drafted to another club - all of a sudden we should've taken him/hung onto him?

If McEvoy and Kossie are injured and we have no big body to at least contest then we will get slaughtered.
Stanley and Blake - if I was an opposing ruckman I would be giggling.

Pattison is an undersized ruckman - Daniel Archer would be just as effective - so I can't see a major difference if that occurs.

[savatage]

I'm quite concerned over lack of ruckmen to be honest. Over the past few years we've dropped Gardiner, King, Pattison, McGrath and Gaertner and haven't recruited one ruckman to cover them.

We've got an up and coming a-grader in McEvoy, a couple of serviceable pinch-hitters in Kosi and Blake and an underperforming, injury-prone, timid athlete in Stanley. Surely it would have been worth taking a big-bodied backup ahead of one of the many speculative medium forwards. Realistically, one or maybe two (or zero) of our rookie picks will forge any worthwhile AFL career for themselves, but someone like McCauley could have given us vital insurance for a few years until we develop another couple of talls of our own. It almost seems arrogant on the recruiters behalf to spend every pick on an obscure medium forward/midfielder while ignoring a very simple, obvious, easily fixed deficiency in the list.

i agree with you - we lost 5 and recruited 1 (Lever)

We lost two that played and none that played this year and have recruited none that have played yet so we are two down from previous years and not 4 or we are none down from this year. Sandy are a couple down though. Sorry but i dont care about them.

Good point. Gardiner was not present this year. Thus same ruck division.


Rucks - McEvoy, Stanley, Koschitzke, Blake.

Wilkes to play forward.

Picking up some ruckman kid isnt going to make a difference in 2012... Nor is some hack like Patterson.

Correct weight.

It's funny, when he was drafted people were ropable, when he was delisted people said I told you so, now that he's been drafted to another club - all of a sudden we should've taken him/hung onto him?

How many ruckmen get drafted in the top ten every year. How many develop into decent ruckmen.... How many take 6-8 years to begin to win their position.

Ruck is a tough position and IMO the most influential on the ground. Dominate, and you significantly improve any midfield - Get destroyed and you significantly limit any midfield.

McIntosh, Gardiner, Fraser, Ryder... All have taken years to begin winning their position. All top tens.

Angwin, Patterson, Brooks all first rounders and all duds.



My strategy would be, get the first rounder you would draft a kid ruckman with, and couple that with whatever - And trade for an established proven, dominent ruckman.

Its price effective.

Well yeah & with the amount of smalls we have - we may have a surplus that we can broker a deal with for a decent tall in the future anyway.