McQualter

[saintspremiers]

He will be back in the seniors in 3 weeks.

He'll play a blinder for Sandy and be straight back in.

He'll fail in the ones and the revolving door will continue.

[quidnunc]

Following him will be Peake, Blake and Baker.


Our selectors are not too unpredictable - safe and steady - still haven't learnt any lessons about revisiting the past once too often.

Selectors - take a leaf out of the Pies selection criteria!

[seano1]

did you hear pickers during last weeks tv broadcast say how good he was in his defencive role in the forward line ......is he his manager
?........a quarter later he was subbed off.

[goddardisgod]

Cool story bro.

[Dr Spaceman]

Others have, and will be, given a chance to take Mini's spot.

It's up to them to make it their own.

[saintly]

Following him will be Peake, Blake and Baker.


Our selectors are not too unpredictable - safe and steady - still haven't learnt any lessons about revisiting the past once too often.

Selectors - take a leaf out of the Pies selection criteria!

we have had 6 debutants. how many more do you want?

Besides say BJ and Gilbert, and maybe Zac, there is only so many kids you can put on the park without the saints losing by 50 points or more per week.

[Spinner]

I'm not sure what Blake and Peake could have changed to be good enough this week.

It is a revolving door, I'm sick of it.

[realdeal]

I'm not sure what Blake and Peake could have changed to be good enough this week.

It is a revolving door, I'm sick of it.

Horses for courses..

McEvoy wasn't exactly beating his opponent or he may just be rested this week so we need another ruckman. Blake is the only one left who's capable to play there right now. Stanley isn't atm..

Peake was one of the best last week so he has earn another chance I guess. Smith is about the only other player that could've come in but if he'll get another go when he forms picks up.

[Dr Spaceman]

I'm not sure what Blake and Peake could have changed to be good enough this week.

It is a revolving door, I'm sick of it.

Horses for courses..

McEvoy wasn't exactly beating his opponent or he may just be rested this week so we need another ruckman. Blake is the only one left who's capable to play there right now. Stanley isn't atm..

Peake was one of the best last week so he has earn another chance I guess. Smith is about the only other player that could've come in but if he'll get another go when he forms picks up.

Yeah, as I posted on another thread:

1. You can't play all the kids at once.

2. Ross has a duty to the fans, and also to the players, to try to win each game of footy.

3. Few of us doubt that the current list will be significantly overhauled at the end of this year. It is imperative that Lyon has a good look at all the players and that includes guys such as Blake and Peake, notwithstanding we've already seen a lot of what they have to offer. Good performances at Sandy still need to be rewarded even if the players concerned are regarded by most as being "dead men walking".

There's plenty of kids in the side already and others will no doubt get their chance in coming weeks. Let's not get too worried about a couple of old geezers getting a recall.

[clarky449]

Maybe the reason he came in was because of forward 50 pressure was non exsistent. Obviously we still were in a position to challenge.

[Life Long Saint]

Yeah, as I posted on another thread:

1. You can't play all the kids at once.

2. Ross has a duty to the fans, and also to the players, to try to win each game of footy.

3. Few of us doubt that the current list will be significantly overhauled at the end of this year. It is imperative that Lyon has a good look at all the players and that includes guys such as Blake and Peake, notwithstanding we've already seen a lot of what they have to offer. Good performances at Sandy still need to be rewarded even if the players concerned are regarded by most as being "dead men walking".

There's plenty of kids in the side already and others will no doubt get their chance in coming weeks. Let's not get too worried about a couple of old geezers getting a recall.

There are competing interests in play.
We look like ending up like the Aussie cricket team. Not enough blooding of new players due to an era of good performances (why change a winning formula).

It pains me to say but Collingwood have got it right. They made the decision last season to finish up the careers (at their club) of some experiences players. In hindsight that is something we could have done. But there are more factors at play there:
1. They have their own reserves team with the ability to implement the game plan regardless of the level. The VFL players can develop better and have an impact and know their role when the break into the senior side. Geelong also have the ability to slot young players into the senior saide that know their role. This highlights the importance of having your own reserves team. Something that should be a priority for us as soon as we can manage it.
2. They had higher draft picks and, therefore, had access to better talent than we did.

If we can't challenge for the flag this year...and clearly we can't then we need to start planning for an assault on the 2012 flag now.
Players that are not going to be part of that campaing should finish the season at Sandringham and get as many games into the kids now...Which is what it looks like we're doing.

Rest the kids where needed...which is what McEvoy's ommission indicates. He has done ALL the work this season and is entitled to a break.

Don't be afraid to send senior players to the reserves to find form. Gram's omission says that he is not performing to the required standard at senior level. I would suspect that he will need to play at least one game in the twos. So I don't expect to see him back until at least the Collingwood game.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Seems to be a lot of fantasy about Collingwood's list management and selection in recent years.

1) If anybody has managed to implement a working revolving door policy, it's got to be the Pies.

*Macaffer started out of the 2010 side, was selected, dropped, selected, and became a premiership player. He's not in the side at the moment.

*Tarkyn Lockyer was in and out of the 2010 side 3 times.

*If we go pre-2010, looking at a player like Toovey, you see a guy in and out of the side as he tries to establish himself.

Under Malthouse over the last decade, you'll get chance after chance if they think you've got "a role in a premiership side". Stagnate, have guys go past you, and you're gone, but Collingwood will persist.

2) The Collingwood cull of older players. This was not a bold initiative. The Magpies played in a Grand Final, and a large number of veterans were not rated as being in their best 22. Delisting these guys is about as bold as suggesting that Gardiner's a possible delisting for next year...

The conclusion that we could/should have known, could/should have delisted <insert whipping boy x> or even shouldn't select <whipping boy x> are valid opinions. There's nothing Collingwood did or is doing which supports either conclusion.

[Life Long Saint]

It's more about Collingwood's ability to develop players so that they can come in to the senior side and seemlessly perform their role.

This allows the "revolving door" approach to work becuase the coaches know that there is someone ready to step up at any time.

The senior players, therefore, ensure that they are performing their role as the coaches direct. Becuase if they don't then they know they are easily replaced.

[Junction Oval]

Could be that the Pies Player Development Programme is far more professional than ours.

Alternatively, their Recruiting is far, far better.

Or am I stating the obvious.

[Dr Spaceman]

Could be that the Pies Player Development Programme is far more professional than ours.

Alternatively, their Recruiting is far, far better.

Or am I stating the obvious.

And they've had the elite facilities of the Lexus Centre, or whatever it's called these days, for a decade or so. We've had ours for a few months.

It all helps.

[Animal Enclosure]

Could be that the Pies Player Development Programme is far more professional than ours.

Alternatively, their Recruiting is far, far better.

Or am I stating the obvious.

This is where the Filth's overflowing coffers of cash comes into play.

Pretty much everyside has elite facilities for the players to prepare, rehab and recover to the enth degree.

Clubs in general operate under a similar salary cap (some more than others).

Clubs awash with cash like CW can afford to;

1. Have an extensive recruiting network across Australia.

2. Run their own VFL team that allows for players to be developed in line with the senior team's game plan, roles within the team and experience at certain positions. Success on the ground is secondary to developing younger players and running senior players back into form. At Sandy, the FC wants to be successful & there is always a conflict between Sandy interests and StK interests.

This is a huge factor IMO & is one area that St Kilda must look closely at.

Do we have the best possible recruiting set up that our financial position will allow?
Do we have the highest quality development program for our young players?

[Junction Oval]

It's great to have new facitities, but a pity about the planning of the Saints pool - its far too small for team requirements.

[saintjake]

Cool story bro.

Tell it again

[BAM! (shhhh)]

It's more about Collingwood's ability to develop players so that they can come in to the senior side and seemlessly perform their role.

This allows the "revolving door" approach to work becuase the coaches know that there is someone ready to step up at any time.

The senior players, therefore, ensure that they are performing their role as the coaches direct. Becuase if they don't then they know they are easily replaced.

This "seamless" development is further illusion. Still, it's that work - the development - that IMO, genuinely sets the Magpies apart at the moment. Because rhere are plenty of sesms, and the continual work is done over the space of years.

In 2010, Wellingham, Sidebottom, Reid, Beams, Thomas, Leigh Brown all stepped up significantly from previous performance.

While Sidebottom and Beams (Lynch's draft) can be credited to recruiting as they were in their 2nd season, and had close to "seamless" entries to AFL, if you look at guys like Leigh Brown, or Ben Reid you could almost compare that to Kosi and Raph Clarke coming good - their careers are nothing BUT seems. Wellingham at end of 2009 I had pencilled in as an Eddy type, and Dale Thomas 2010 is probably as underhyped as his early career was overhyped. If 2012 were to see equivalent results from the Saints (hypothetically, we were to see Eddy, Cripps, Lynch, Ledger, Armitage and Kosi all have huge years) we'd be back in the hunt. I wouldn't bet my house on it.

Conversely, that development is currently on the backburner. In 2010, Collingwood "blooded" a single player, Jarryd Blair. Essentially, throughout 2010, their list was in a final state of transition that had been built up through a number of years where they weren't viable premiership threats (witness their losses to St Kilda in the 2009 AND 2008 finals). In 2011, they have yet to "blood" a player (Krakour, Tarrant and Buckley having all played before).

[Mr Magic]

It's more about Collingwood's ability to develop players so that they can come in to the senior side and seemlessly perform their role.

This allows the "revolving door" approach to work becuase the coaches know that there is someone ready to step up at any time.

The senior players, therefore, ensure that they are performing their role as the coaches direct. Becuase if they don't then they know they are easily replaced.

This "seamless" development is further illusion. Still, it's that work - the development - that IMO, genuinely sets the Magpies apart at the moment. Because rhere are plenty of sesms, and the continual work is done over the space of years.

In 2010, Wellingham, Sidebottom, Reid, Beams, Thomas, Leigh Brown all stepped up significantly from previous performance.

While Sidebottom and Beams (Lynch's draft) can be credited to recruiting as they were in their 2nd season, and had close to "seamless" entries to AFL, if you look at guys like Leigh Brown, or Ben Reid you could almost compare that to Kosi and Raph Clarke coming good - their careers are nothing BUT seems. Wellingham at end of 2009 I had pencilled in as an Eddy type, and Dale Thomas 2010 is probably as underhyped as his early career was overhyped. If 2012 were to see equivalent results from the Saints (hypothetically, we were to see Eddy, Cripps, Lynch, Ledger, Armitage and Kosi all have huge years) we'd be back in the hunt. I wouldn't bet my house on it.

Conversely, that development is currently on the backburner. In 2010, Collingwood "blooded" a single player, Jarryd Blair. Essentially, throughout 2010, their list was in a final state of transition that had been built up through a number of years where they weren't viable premiership threats (witness their losses to St Kilda in the 2009 AND 2008 finals). In 2011, they have yet to "blood" a player (Krakour, Tarrant and Buckley having all played before).

You are guilty of saintsational forum heresy.

How dare you opine (with some relevant facts) that the urban myths promulgated by many on here are just BS?

[bobmurray]

Could be that the Pies Player Development Programme is far more professional than ours.

Alternatively, their Recruiting is far, far better.

Or am I stating the obvious.

And they've had the elite facilities of the Lexus Centre, or whatever it's called these days, for a decade or so. We've had ours for a few months.

It all helps.

And they have a stand alone VFL team which is a huge help with player development

[saintsRrising]

. In 2011, they have yet to "blood" a player (Krakour, Tarrant and Buckley having all played before).

Not to mention that Malthouse is also "recycling" Leon as a backman this year.

Pies are in full-tilt Premierhip cup chasing mode.

However as BAM! has clearly point out the Pies current success is not just built on blooding youth.


Going forward with the Saints...our future success if achieved will not just be built on blooding youth either.

It will be on youth...

It will be on trades...

It will be on players stepping up...

It will be on some existing players succeeding in new roles...



....and yes it will also be on the saints evolving or revolutionizing their game plan...................and rediscovering their work-rate which is sadly lacking so far this year.