Rising Star Nominations ..

[Middo]

Hoping that this year we may be able to get a nomination for the rising star with the young guys we have on board this year if they get a chance..Been awhile between drinks.
Who was the last... Armo ..?

[St Chris]

Dont think Armo ever got one.

Last one I can remember was Geary.

Jack Steven was stiff after last year's Geelong game....

[doppler effect]

Jarryn Geary round 8 2009.

Before that I think it may have been Gilbert perhaps

[Armoooo]

Jarryn Geary round 8 2009.

Before that I think it may have been Gilbert perhaps

And before that I think it was Raph Clarke.

Incredible really.

[plugger66]

And before that was Welles Icke.

[Con Gorozidis]

Last one Geary (2009).

On average you should get 4 nominations every 3 years (1.3 a year).

We have had 1 in the last 3 seasons.

So thats poor tracking against average.

[plugger66]

Last one Geary (2009).

On average you should get 4 nominations every 3 years (1.3 a year).

We have had 1 in the last 3 seasons.

So thats poor tracking against average.

Probably need to look at Geelong and WB to get a better idea. They have been up the top about the same time as us.

[SainterK]

Last one Geary (2009).

On average you should get 4 nominations every 3 years (1.3 a year).

We have had 1 in the last 3 seasons.

So thats poor tracking against average.

Curious, how many have Geelong had in the same period?

[Con Gorozidis]

Last one Geary (2009).

On average you should get 4 nominations every 3 years (1.3 a year).

We have had 1 in the last 3 seasons.

So thats poor tracking against average.

Curious, how many have Geelong had in the same period?

f_all as well youd think.

dogs 2 maybe? hill & grant?

[Armoooo]

I think the teams that we need to be compared with are Geelong, Collingwood and the Doggies in the past 4 seasons.

Since Ross arrived at the club, these four have been our biggest competition.

2007:
St Kilda - 1 (Sam Gilbert)
Collingwood - 3 (Scott Pendlebury, Marty Clark, Tyson Goldsack)
Bulldogs - 2 (Shaun Higgins, Tom Williams)
Geelong - 2 (Tom Hawkins, Joel Selwood)

2008:
St Kilda - 0
Collingwood - 1 (Nathan Brown)
Bulldogs - 1 (Josh Hill)
Geelong - 0

2009:
St Kilda - 1 (Jarryn Geary)
Collingwood - 2 (Brad Dick, Dayne Beams)
Bulldogs - 1 (Callan Ward)
Geelong - 0

2010:
St Kilda - 0
Collingwood - 1 (Ben Reid)
Bulldogs - 1 (Jarrad Grant)
Geelong - 0




So we have struggled a bit recently, but we're not doing any worse than the bulldogs, and Geelong have only had one good player like us come through.

Collingwood have killed it in recent years, what I'd like to know is if it is their recruiting or development that is putting them ahead of us, either way they have secure 4 very good premiership players in the time Ross has been heading the club.

This further illustrates Ross's tendancy to top up rather than go with youth. In some circumstances this is a good strategy IMO, look at Schneider for example, he was cheap and had a huge upside, chances are we wouldn't have had as good a player available with our second round pick, and as an added bonus Schneider was ready to play from round 1.

Andrew Lovett was the right call IMO, he was a risk and we knew that (not to the extent that he turned out to be) but his upside was far greater than any player we could have taken at pick 16 would have been. It is a tragedy that things turned so ugly for everyone involved.

Farren Ray was a 50/50 call which was only justified by the doggies throwing in their third round pick, but even he has exceeded most of our expectations, the one I can't understand is Brett Peake though...

[BigMart]

Geelong have won two flags.....we needed to find improvement in order to win one.....we should have hadnatbleast two, maybe three more

[InkerSaint]

Last one Geary (2009).

On average you should get 4 nominations every 3 years (1.3 a year).

We have had 1 in the last 3 seasons.

So thats poor tracking against average.

Curious, how many have Geelong had in the same period?

Geelong had 10 former rising star nominees in the 2009 GF team to our 11.

I've made the point before... Rising Star nominations are for wooden spoon contestants. They should be the subject of mirth and derision, a booby prize of the same measure as the NAB Cup trophy.

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... hp?t=67181

[Moods]

From our point of view I reckon Macca could nearly have been nominated l

I think the teams that we need to be compared with are Geelong, Collingwood and the Doggies in the past 4 seasons.

Since Ross arrived at the club, these four have been our biggest competition.

2007:
St Kilda - 1 (Sam Gilbert)
Collingwood - 3 (Scott Pendlebury, Marty Clark, Tyson Goldsack)
Bulldogs - 2 (Shaun Higgins, Tom Williams)
Geelong - 2 (Tom Hawkins, Joel Selwood)

2008:
St Kilda - 0
Collingwood - 1 (Nathan Brown)
Bulldogs - 1 (Josh Hill)
Geelong - 0

2009:
St Kilda - 1 (Jarryn Geary)
Collingwood - 2 (Brad Dick, Dayne Beams)
Bulldogs - 1 (Callan Ward)
Geelong - 0

2010:
St Kilda - 0
Collingwood - 1 (Ben Reid)
Bulldogs - 1 (Jarrad Grant)
Geelong - 0




So we have struggled a bit recently, but we're not doing any worse than the bulldogs, and Geelong have only had one good player like us come through.

Collingwood have killed it in recent years, what I'd like to know is if it is their recruiting or development that is putting them ahead of us, either way they have secure 4 very good premiership players in the time Ross has been heading the club.

This further illustrates Ross's tendancy to top up rather than go with youth. In some circumstances this is a good strategy IMO, look at Schneider for example, he was cheap and had a huge upside, chances are we wouldn't have had as good a player available with our second round pick, and as an added bonus Schneider was ready to play from round 1.

Andrew Lovett was the right call IMO, he was a risk and we knew that (not to the extent that he turned out to be) but his upside was far greater than any player we could have taken at pick 16 would have been. It is a tragedy that things turned so ugly for everyone involved.

Farren Ray was a 50/50 call which was only justified by the doggies throwing in their third round pick, but even he has exceeded most of our expectations, the one I can't understand is Brett Peake though...

From our major competition I would rank Pendlebury. Selwood, Gilbert and Higgins as stars. I thought Pendles played in 06, but I must be wrong. Ben Reid will be a star I reckon. That's one each from each club.

The pies definitely have more potential stars unearthed though. Some that have been nominated I don't rate that highly, Goldsack, but they have others that probably should have been nominated like Sidebottom.

[InkerSaint]

Collingwood have killed it in recent years, what I'd like to know is if it is their recruiting or development that is putting them ahead of us, either way they have secure 4 very good premiership players in the time Ross has been heading the club.

This further illustrates Ross's tendancy to top up rather than go with youth. In some circumstances this is a good strategy IMO, look at Schneider for example, he was cheap and had a huge upside, chances are we wouldn't have had as good a player available with our second round pick, and as an added bonus Schneider was ready to play from round 1.

Collingwood killed it in '08 with Sidebottom and Beams, and recycling Leigh Brown. Their '07 draft was a write-off but in '05-'06 they had a bumper crop, particularly Thomas and Pendlebury with the priority and early 1st round picks from finishing 15th.

In fact, it's interesting to see how much recycling Collingwood have done in the last 5 years. Medhurst. Bryan. Wood. Corrie. Brown. Jolly. Ball. Buckley.

How many have we had in the same period, again?

[Moods]

Collingwood have killed it in recent years, what I'd like to know is if it is their recruiting or development that is putting them ahead of us, either way they have secure 4 very good premiership players in the time Ross has been heading the club.

This further illustrates Ross's tendancy to top up rather than go with youth. In some circumstances this is a good strategy IMO, look at Schneider for example, he was cheap and had a huge upside, chances are we wouldn't have had as good a player available with our second round pick, and as an added bonus Schneider was ready to play from round 1.

Collingwood killed it in '08 with Sidebottom and Beams, and recycling Leigh Brown. Their '07 draft was a write-off but in '05-'06 they had a bumper crop, particularly Thomas and Pendlebury with the priority and early 1st round picks from finishing 15th.

In fact, it's interesting to see how much recycling Collingwood have done in the last 5 years. Medhurst. Bryan. Wood. Corrie. Brown. Jolly. Ball. Buckley.

How many have we had in the same period, again?

Minor point - that's not my quote you've quoted Inkersaint Not that it matters, as I agree with the point made

[InkerSaint]

Bugger! Sorry Moods, I removed one set of quotes too many

[goddardisgod]

Steven and Stanley are still eligible for rising star.

Ledger, Cripps and Smith i'ld say are reasonable chances, of those with under 5 games.

[Con Gorozidis]

Last one Geary (2009).

On average you should get 4 nominations every 3 years (1.3 a year).

We have had 1 in the last 3 seasons.

So thats poor tracking against average.

Curious, how many have Geelong had in the same period?

Geelong had 10 former rising star nominees in the 2009 GF team to our 11.

I've made the point before... Rising Star nominations are for wooden spoon contestants. They should be the subject of mirth and derision, a booby prize of the same measure as the NAB Cup trophy.

http://www.saintsational.com/forum/view ... hp?t=67181

makes no sense - you just cats and us had 10 and 11 RS nominations in a GF team. thats half. And a post above showed the pies have about 10 or so in their side. So they seem a pretty good indicator.

[Con Gorozidis]

Collingwood have killed it in recent years, what I'd like to know is if it is their recruiting or development that is putting them ahead of us, either way they have secure 4 very good premiership players in the time Ross has been heading the club.

This further illustrates Ross's tendancy to top up rather than go with youth. In some circumstances this is a good strategy IMO, look at Schneider for example, he was cheap and had a huge upside, chances are we wouldn't have had as good a player available with our second round pick, and as an added bonus Schneider was ready to play from round 1.

Collingwood killed it in '08 with Sidebottom and Beams, and recycling Leigh Brown. Their '07 draft was a write-off but in '05-'06 they had a bumper crop, particularly Thomas and Pendlebury with the priority and early 1st round picks from finishing 15th.

In fact, it's interesting to see how much recycling Collingwood have done in the last 5 years. Medhurst. Bryan. Wood. Corrie. Brown. Jolly. Ball. Buckley.

How many have we had in the same period, again?

It really is a very fine line. Only 1 or 2 players make the end nth difference. Saints could have so easily have had 2 flags. And with what? Maybe only a single different player. Thats how close it was.

[InkerSaint]

makes no sense - you just cats and us had 10 and 11 RS nominations in a GF team. thats half. And a post above showed the pies have about 10 or so in their side. So they seem a pretty good indicator.

Are you sure about that, I reckon the Pies had about 5.

Regardless of which, who doesn't have about 10 rising stars in any fielded team?

I'm sure the answer will only demonstrate its irrelevance - not the opposite.

[Con Gorozidis]

makes no sense - you just cats and us had 10 and 11 RS nominations in a GF team. thats half. And a post above showed the pies have about 10 or so in their side. So they seem a pretty good indicator.

Are you sure about that, I reckon the Pies had about 5.

Regardless of which, who doesn't have about 10 rising stars in any fielded team?

I'm sure the answer will only demonstrate its irrelevance - not the opposite.

yeah on numbers (4 every 3 years). everyone should have about 10 in their side. which they probably do.

so ur probably right. means bugger all. look at gwilt for instance or joey or even bj. all came good when they were miles too old for RS.

so i agree u r right.

[dcstkfc]

yeah on numbers (4 every 3 years). everyone should have about 10 in their side. which they probably do.

so ur probably right. means bugger all. look at gwilt for instance or joey or even bj. all came good when they were miles too old for RS.

so i agree u r right.

And even then Joey and BJ both got one in 2003.

This is the list of our Rising Star nominees
Lenny 99
Kosi 01
Roo 02
BJ, Joey, Schneids 03
Raph 05
Polo 06
Gilbo 07
Gears 09

So 6 will take the field tonight, I guess compared with most teams that's not great. But it'll be 8 in a couple of weeks time

[Con Gorozidis]

yeah on numbers (4 every 3 years). everyone should have about 10 in their side. which they probably do.

so ur probably right. means bugger all. look at gwilt for instance or joey or even bj. all came good when they were miles too old for RS.

so i agree u r right.

And even then Joey and BJ both got one in 2003.

This is the list of our Rising Star nominees
Lenny 99
Kosi 01
Roo 02
BJ, Joey, Schneids 03
Raph 05
Polo 06
Gilbo 07
Gears 09

So 6 will take the field tonight, I guess compared with most teams that's not great. But it'll be 8 in a couple of weeks time

oops! well geary got one and gwility didnt.

[Sainterone]

Lenny - a star in 1999 - wow that seems a long time ago!

and still a brightly shining star in 2011

What a player!!

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Last one Geary (2009).

On average you should get 4 nominations every 3 years (1.3 a year).

We have had 1 in the last 3 seasons.

So thats poor tracking against average.

I'm with InkerSaint, rising star noms are even more ridiculous than the award itself. The age and games criteria for rising star meant neither of the 2 best 1st year players in 2010 was even eligible. Noms themselves are going to trend to the teams giving the most games to players who fit the arbitrary criteria, who are alwasy going to be down the bottom.

As for 1.3 a year (i.e. 16 teams divided by 22 rounds; "opportunities") I think you'll need to look at a longer period to make that sort of average like that stack up for any team - it's waaaay too tied to ladder position.

Take your time period out to reflect the theoretical cycle of the draft (16 years) and you'll probably find a rate approaching 16/22.