Alas, the window is...

[perfectionist]

...almost completely shut. The ray of light is the lack a real challenger to Collingwood. Someone has to play them in the GF.

In 2004/05 we had a team who could kick the ball to each other under pressure, but key players broke down at the pointy end. In 2009/10 we had a game plan that reduced opposition scoring to a level that meant that most games were up for grabs when the pressure was off (e.g. last quarter of GF1). That game plan has been mimicked (alas for footy) by others. Geelong was as bad as us last night except for some brilliance from Bartel who showed the value of being able to kick with both feet and who was directly responsible for three of their six goals and their win.

There are a number of younger players who are better kicks than some in the team at the moment. They should be played sooner rather than later, even if it results in losses. There is no future in blokes who cannot kick the ball to a teammate when under little direct pressure.

[SainterK]

Collingwood haven't even played yet

[st_Trav_ofWA]

i swear some people get more enjoyment out of a loss then a win .....

did anyone really think we would get through 2011 without a loss ??? anyone ?? we lost to a very good side in geelong by a point ... hardly time for the "window closed" BS .... imagine if the pies drop this week to the power (not likely) would it be alarm stations for them ??? i think not ... its a long long long season we will look good in some games bad in others but i still think we will look good in alot more games then we will look bad in ...

[degruch]

...a totally non-existing figment of the media's imagination.

[3rd generation saint]

Of course we expect to lose games, it wouldn't have made any difference if we had won last game, we played unimaginative, ultra defensive, poor football.
We move the ball at the speed of yawn and for a good part of the game last night there was absolutely no one in our forward half.
It must be good for the player who wins the ball on the half back line to look up and see that he has no one to kick it to, so he stops and has to wait for someone to get loose.
We need a big improvement next Friday, and a good score doing so.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Of course we expect to lose games, it wouldn't have made any difference if we had won last game, we played unimaginative, ultra defensive, poor football.
We move the ball at the speed of yawn and for a good part of the game last night there was absolutely no one in our forward half.
It must be good for the player who wins the ball on the half back line to look up and see that he has no one to kick it to, so he stops and has to wait for someone to get loose.
We need a big improvement next Friday, and a good score doing so.

but dont you think the fact Geelong also were playing an ultra defencive game effected the forward structure ??? this game was a game of chess ... Geelong would have loved for us to not have the loose defender cutting off their forward enteries sitting infront of Mooney ... the game was always going to come down to what team could slip in the defence the most ... we did the better for most of the game but lost it at the end ... had we not stuck to the structure we had in place i reckon geelong may have beaten us by a fair margin

[clarky449]

I do worry where we will be in 3-5 years time.

[3rd generation saint]

We had Geelong on toast when we were 20 points up, but simply did not press our advantage.
All we had to do was kick another 1 or 2 goals at that stage and the game would have been over.
As another thread indicated, we just kept kicking it to Roo, which was predictable and so easy to defend.
Plus when your forwards aren't in position, they can't apply that forward pressure to cause a turnover near goal.
Geelong cleared out of our defence way too easily last night and we did not stick our tackles.
I think Ross has to inject some youth and speed into the team, which means Stanley, Smith or Ledger if fit need to come in.
I still mainain that Stanley would be a huge weapon across midfield, the talls can't keep up with him, and the smalls will struggle marking against him.

[Legendary]

Pies had 31 tackles in the first quarter against Port, and had 5 individual goal kickers for the quarter.

And Port are playing a hell of a lot better than the Cats did last night.


There is no question that Collingwood's best is better than anyone else in the competition IMO. It doesn't mean they aren't beatable on a given day, and the best side of the year doesn't always win the premiership.

But we are definitely a couple of levels below them ... and will need to find significant improvement with new players and a different mindset if we are going to play in the big dance again.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

I do worry where we will be in 3-5 years time.

we will be in rebuild mode thus the cycle of the draft dictates .... personally i would rather be in the hunt now and rebuild in 3-5 years time then in rebuild now with all the GC and GWS consessions , by the time we start looking to the draft for early picks they will be legit early picks ....

somewhere out there there is a 14 yearold kid who is about to have a growth spurt who will guide the next era of the saints finals runs ... we still got pleanty of time before we need to rebuild

[Bigmal47]

I agree with Clarky 449 & St Trav we appear to be heading for the bottom of the heap, but let me assure you that in the days we only won a couple a year those wins were all the more enjoyable. Lets hope that when we do get the early draft picks our recruiting staff don't swap them for the likes of Lovett and Fergus Watts. In the mean time I hope we don't have to see too much of the likes of WoJo running into open goals with our slugs crawling along behind.

[kosifantutti23]

I do worry where we will be in 3-5 years time.

I felt like that when we were bundled out in 2006 and missed altogether in 2007.

[matrix]

[st_Trav_ofWA]

I agree with Clarky 449 & St Trav we appear to be heading for the bottom of the heap, but let me assure you that in the days we only won a couple a year those wins were all the more enjoyable. Lets hope that when we do get the early draft picks our recruiting staff don't swap them for the likes of Lovett and Fergus Watts. In the mean time I hope we don't have to see too much of the likes of WoJo running into open goals with our slugs crawling along behind.

hang on i never said we were heading to the bottom of the heap ... but the way the draft system works its almost impossible to stay in the hunt forever .... we are still very much in the hunt but in say 3-5 years we more than likely will be planning for the future again

[SaintDebi]

I will refuse to accept that the window is shut until the end of the season if it is absolutely mathematically impossible to reach the GF.
Until then the window as I see it is permanently ajar, and after only a 1 point loss at Round 1: its open wide and the curtains are a-blowin'.

[groupie1]

i swear some people get more enjoyment out of a loss then a win .....

did anyone really think we would get through 2011 without a loss ??? anyone ?? we lost to a very good side in geelong by a point ... hardly time for the "window closed" BS .... imagine if the pies drop this week to the power (not likely) would it be alarm stations for them ??? i think not ... its a long long long season we will look good in some games bad in others but i still think we will look good in alot more games then we will look bad in ...

Dude, you've just paid out on him for criticising the team after they lose, as you read it as criticising the team BECAUSE they lose. People get upset and emotional after a tight loss, and tend to voice feelings. The concerns raised are completely valid. Have been for over a year. The fact this post is made after a loss is a function of losses make us upset and want to post.

But it doesn't dispel the validity of the actual argument.

[perfectionist]

Collingwood haven't even played yet

Sneaked home by 12 goals.

[desertsaint]

Crows looked good - great game to watch - love the confidence of their youngsters - and the confidence their coach has in them.

[saint66au]

Crows looked good - great game to watch - love the confidence of their youngsters - and the confidence their coach has in them.

...and how many times did the commentators just happen to mention what a pleasure it was to watch a free flowing attacking game of football "rather than what was served up at the MCG last night"

[OneEyedSainter77]

Crows looked good - great game to watch - love the confidence of their youngsters - and the confidence their coach has in them.

...and how many times did the commentators just happen to mention what a pleasure it was to watch a free flowing attacking game of football "rather than what was served up at the MCG last night"

I'm so sick of hearing this.

I must admit after hearing Ross say that we would play an attacking brand of football, I was half expecting that to happen straight away.

How naive of me.

Of course we would play like THAT.

Anyway back on topic, at their best, Collingwood are daylight ahead of the rest of the competition. However, as we showed last year, we only need to catch them when they are not at their best once. I don't think there is a clear cut second best team yet. Which gives us 21 more weeks to BECOME that team.

Vast improvements need to be made across the board but it is possible to turn it around.

The next three matches will give us an indication of where we are at. We play weaker opposition however all three are relatively young, energetic sides who can run us off our feet.

If we are 3-1, we are back on track. Anything less and we are in trouble. After that things get a lot tougher with Adelaide, Carlton and Hawthorn (three up and coming sides) and we want to be in good form when we hit this patch.

Let's reasses the season after round 8.

[Art Vandelay]

The new forward structure took me back to the 'bad old days' of when John Barker was an assistant coach.
Kicking the ball to Rooey everytime we go inside fifty just doesn't make sense. Talk about playing right into Geelong's hands.

[perfectionist]

Update:

Closed shut. End of thread.

[SaintPav]

Update:

Closed shut. End of thread.

I don't give a sh!t what you think.

[saintsRrising]

Update:

Closed shut. End of thread.

Ok Goodbye.

The rest of us will hang fat.

Some might perceive that despite being sadly out of form that we still almost won both games.

Returns to form can happen quickly or not...but giving up after only two games is just silly.

[SainterK]

Update:

Closed shut. End of thread.

Your mind?