best 22 for 2011

[JABBER]

B J GWILT Z DAWSON S BAKER

HB R CLARKE S FISHER F RAY

C J GRAM L HAYES L MONTAGNA

HF A SCHNEIDER N RIEWOLDT S GILBERT

F S MILNE KOSI N DAL SANTO

R M GARDINER B GODDARD J STEVEN

I C JONES B PEAKE S DEMPSTER J BLAKE (SUB)

J BLAKE IS SUB BECAUSE HE CAN PLAY IN A LOT OF POSITIONS

[saintjake]

umm, im hoping you simply got Nicky Dal and Steven around the wrong way?
or you're hoping Steven has the biggest pre-season of his life

[stinger]

no way is dempster in our best 22......if he is we are f***ed....

[SainterK]

no way is dempster in our best 22......if he is we are f***ed....

Curious, but why?

While not what you'd call a 'core' player, he was easily one of our best across the entire finals series?

[stinger]

no way is dempster in our best 22......if he is we are f***ed....

Curious, but why?

While not what you'd call a 'core' player, he was easily one of our best across the entire finals series?

he can't kick....maybe another 12 months and a new pre-season after his knee reconstruction might improve his kicking...but......at the moment...we can't afford guys who can't hit a target by foot in the side....he turns the ball over just about every time he kicks

[InkerSaint]

Where's Cripps?

[SainterK]

no way is dempster in our best 22......if he is we are f***ed....

Curious, but why?

While not what you'd call a 'core' player, he was easily one of our best across the entire finals series?

he can't kick....maybe another 12 months and a new pre-season after his knee reconstruction might improve his kicking...but......at the moment...we can't afford guys who can't hit a target by foot in the side....he turns the ball over just about every time he kicks

Yes, kicking may not be his strong suit, but flipside we can't just abandon every player that plays a negating role and go the other extreme IMO.

I think he has proven to be the next in line after Baker, his roles on Gia, Johnson and Didak were more than serviceable.

He actually also has a little more of an attacking mindset that we probably give him credit for.

[stinger]

Where's Cripps?

in cripps out dempster...eh???

[Con Gorozidis]

B J GWILT Z DAWSON S BAKER

HB R CLARKE S FISHER F RAY

C J GRAM L HAYES L MONTAGNA

HF A SCHNEIDER N RIEWOLDT S GILBERT

F S MILNE KOSI N DAL SANTO

R M GARDINER B GODDARD J STEVEN

I C JONES B PEAKE S DEMPSTER J BLAKE (SUB)

J BLAKE IS SUB BECAUSE HE CAN PLAY IN A LOT OF POSITIONS

so ruckmen aside - u are saying ourt edd/mini - in raph/steven.

thats the best 22 for maybe january 2011. but i hope/think we will need more changes than that to be a top side again.

i dont know whether steven had OP or not - but based on what i saw in 2010 he wont add much.

we need better kicking in general. more pace. and a little more scoring danger up fwd. also kosi cant continue at FF.

my 22 looks like this (changes in bold):

gwilt dawson simpkin
clarke fisher gram
dal hays smith
gilbert stanley schneider
milne roo gamble

Mcevoy goddard armitage

int: ray, jones, kosi sub: polo

emg: steven, heyne, winmar.

comments

i rate gardi - but i think 2011 he will only be used sparingly.

[borderbarry]

Not a very adventurous effort Jabber. More of the same old, same old.

To be successflu we have to make about 4 or 5 changes to the team. Introduce pace...

Some of.. Stanley, Steven, Armitage, Lynch, Heyne, Winmar, Walsh,, Simpkin, A.Smith, our 4 new players, have to push the likes of Jones, Peak, Dempster, McQualter. Ray, out of our best 22, if we are going to have another crack at it.

[JABBER]

there is no rush to play the kids we got a very good list we got 9 kids who havn't played a game yet that show promise the like of A Smith, P Cahill, N Winmar and our new guys from last weeks draft .

[bigcarl]

kosi cant continue at FF.

Agree. He's now a follower or doesn't play IMO.

[meher baba]

no way is dempster in our best 22......if he is we are f***ed....

Curious, but why?

While not what you'd call a 'core' player, he was easily one of our best across the entire finals series?

he can't kick....maybe another 12 months and a new pre-season after his knee reconstruction might improve his kicking...but......at the moment...we can't afford guys who can't hit a target by foot in the side....he turns the ball over just about every time he kicks

Yes, kicking may not be his strong suit, but flipside we can't just abandon every player that plays a negating role and go the other extreme IMO.

I think he has proven to be the next in line after Baker, his roles on Gia, Johnson and Didak were more than serviceable.

He actually also has a little more of an attacking mindset that we probably give him credit for.

Sainter K, the problem is that, before his knee reconstruction, Dempster's kicking was probably his strongest suit. He isn't a ball winner, his overhead skills are more or less non-existent, he hardly ever lands a tackle. Without his penetrating long kicking, all Dempster really has to offer is his supreme fitness, his extensive experience in finals football (5 Grand Finals, one as winner), and his ability to play the type of close marking/run with role that Lyon requires from 2-3 players in his team.

So I think Stinger is right: the pre-August 2008 Dempster would be pushing for a spot in our top 22, but surely we can find 22 players on our list that have more to offer than the 2009-10 Dempster.

Sainter K: the clear difference between Dempster and Gwilt is that, until recently, Gwilt hadn't consistently been able to put together the sort of game on an AFL field that his basic talent suggested he would be able to do. That's why he eventually "made it".

I reckon that - through discipline, dedication and supreme fitness - Dempster has already achieved far, far more in AFL football than his fairly limited natural ability would ever have suggested he might achieve.

In short, I don't think you are comparing apples with apples in comparing Gwilt and Dempster.

[borderbarry]

I was under the impression that Sean Dempster was keeping Raph Clarkes place warm for him. Sean's biggest fault as far as I am concerned is that he takes far too long to get rid of the footy. He often ignores players on their own looking for better options, before finally kicking it to the original player after he has been covered.

[PJ]

B J GWILT J BLAKE S BAKER

HB S FISHER Z DAWSON R CLARKE

C J GRAM L HAYES L MONTAGNA

HF S GILBERT R STANLEY R GAMBLE

F S MILNE N RIEWOLDT A SCHNEIDER

R M GARDINER B GODDARD N DAL SANTO


I C JONES D ARMITAGE KOSI J CRIPPS(SUB)

J CRIPPS is my smokey but I also reckon Zac maybe more suited in CHB. Sorry big Ben may have to do some more work with Kosi's new role and if Gards is up and about. Polo also an outside chance but lets wait to see what Armo does.

[SainterK]

no way is dempster in our best 22......if he is we are f***ed....

Curious, but why?

While not what you'd call a 'core' player, he was easily one of our best across the entire finals series?

he can't kick....maybe another 12 months and a new pre-season after his knee reconstruction might improve his kicking...but......at the moment...we can't afford guys who can't hit a target by foot in the side....he turns the ball over just about every time he kicks

Yes, kicking may not be his strong suit, but flipside we can't just abandon every player that plays a negating role and go the other extreme IMO.

I think he has proven to be the next in line after Baker, his roles on Gia, Johnson and Didak were more than serviceable.

He actually also has a little more of an attacking mindset that we probably give him credit for.

Sainter K, the problem is that, before his knee reconstruction, Dempster's kicking was probably his strongest suit. He isn't a ball winner, his overhead skills are more or less non-existent, he hardly ever lands a tackle. Without his penetrating long kicking, all Dempster really has to offer is his supreme fitness, his extensive experience in finals football (5 Grand Finals, one as winner), and his ability to play the type of close marking/run with role that Lyon requires from 2-3 players in his team.

So I think Stinger is right: the pre-August 2008 Dempster would be pushing for a spot in our top 22, but surely we can find 22 players on our list that have more to offer than the 2009-10 Dempster.

Sainter K: the clear difference between Dempster and Gwilt is that, until recently, Gwilt hadn't consistently been able to put together the sort of game on an AFL field that his basic talent suggested he would be able to do. That's why he eventually "made it".

I reckon that - through discipline, dedication and supreme fitness - Dempster has already achieved far, far more in AFL football than his fairly limited natural ability would ever have suggested he might achieve.

In short, I don't think you are comparing apples with apples in comparing Gwilt and Dempster.

Never compared Gwilt and Dempster as players MB, only reference I have made between the two of them, is that I am going to be a vocal supporter of Sean on here as well as Jimmy.

I don't pretend to think Sean is a super talented player, I just believe he should be played in a Baker like position in 2011.

He can blanket a player as effectively, is very focused, I believe after his job in all the finals....he has earned a shot at this role....that's all.

People say the 2008 Dempster model was better, I just tend to believe he had opportunity given Baker was out most of the year. Seems to blossom when given a crack at it...

If I am wrong, so be it....OK?

[awesome_days]

More of a rd 22 than a rd 1 team.
Certainties in caps

B: CLARKE DAWSON Dempster
HB: Cripps FISHER GWILT
C: Gram HAYES MONTAGNA
HF: GODDARD GILBERT Steven
F: SCHNEIDER REIWOLDT Stanley
R: Koschitzke DAL SANTO Armitage

Int: McEvoy Ray Winmar Polo

So from GF1:

Out: Gardiner Eddy McQualter Milne Baker Jones Blake Peake
In: Clarke Cripps Winmar Polo Stanley Steven Armitage McEvoy

Maybe too many changes - but its all stupid November optimism

[Stillwaiting]

Not a very adventurous effort Jabber. More of the same old, same old.

To be successflu we have to make about 4 or 5 changes to the team. Introduce pace...

Some of.. Stanley, Steven, Armitage, Lynch, Heyne, Winmar, Walsh,, Simpkin, A.Smith, our 4 new players, have to push the likes of Jones, Peak, Dempster, McQualter. Ray, out of our best 22, if we are going to have another crack at it.

I dont think we need to make to manny changes all at once, but I do agree we should be looking to inject some youth. I would like to see Stanley and Steven get a fair crack in the seniors this year.

[meher baba]

Never compared Gwilt and Dempster as players MB, only reference I have made between the two of them, is that I am going to be a vocal supporter of Sean on here as well as Jimmy.

I don't pretend to think Sean is a super talented player, I just believe he should be played in a Baker like position in 2011.

He can blanket a player as effectively, is very focused, I believe after his job in all the finals....he has earned a shot at this role....that's all.

People say the 2008 Dempster model was better, I just tend to believe he had opportunity given Baker was out most of the year. Seems to blossom when given a crack at it...

If I am wrong, so be it....OK?

Yep, fair enough, SK.

If Dempster goes well enough to be selected for our best 22, then that would be great.

I guess I have a bit of a personal bias towards players with lots of footballing talent rather than simply being magnificent athletes. I was always pretty dubious about Blake in the past but would acknowledge that he has matured into a player who is sufficiently skilled with ball in hand to be worthy of holding down a spot in a first-rate AFL team.

If Dempster could do something similar, I'd be excited. As things stand, I would say he is the least talented player in AFL history to play in 5 Grand Finals. So, if he fades away this season, he certainly will have plenty to be satisfied about in terms of his footballing career (more than the likes of Harvey, Loewe, Burke, Gehrig, Riewoldt and Hayes, to name but a few).

[bergholt]

If Dempster could do something similar, I'd be excited. As things stand, I would say he is the least talented player in AFL history to play in 5 Grand Finals.

fair point, though i'd throw martin pike in there as well.

[plugger66]

If Dempster could do something similar, I'd be excited. As things stand, I would say he is the least talented player in AFL history to play in 5 Grand Finals.

fair point, though i'd throw martin pike in there as well.

I reckon Pike is a superstar compared to Dempster but then he plays a role.

[meher baba]

I think Pike played in six GFs, so the Saints and Sean will need to get to the 2011 one for him to emulate Martin.

Pike wad no great shakes either, but he had more physical presence and a bit more attack on the ball IMO

[groupie1]

More of a rd 22 than a rd 1 team.
Certainties in caps

B: CLARKE DAWSON Dempster
HB: Cripps FISHER GWILT
C: Gram HAYES MONTAGNA
HF: GODDARD GILBERT Steven
F: SCHNEIDER REIWOLDT Stanley
R: Koschitzke DAL SANTO Armitage

Int: McEvoy Ray Winmar Polo

So from GF1:

Out: Gardiner Eddy McQualter Milne Baker Jones Blake Peake
In: Clarke Cripps Winmar Polo Stanley Steven Armitage McEvoy

Maybe too many changes - but its all stupid November optimism

I applaud you for sparking discussion with all these changes. Better than simply re-listing last year's team.

So I'll take your changes as they are and respond:

B: CLARKE DAWSON Dempster
HB: Gilbert FISHER GWILT
C: Gram HAYES MONTAGNA
HF: GODDARD ROO Steven
F: SCHNEIDER Stanley Milne
R: Koschitzke DAL SANTO A Smith

Int: Gardiner Ray Baker Jones

I've moved a couple around, and from your Outs: Gardiner Eddy McQualter Milne Baker Jones Blake Peake, I added back in Gardiner, Milne, Baker, Jones....... and added from your Ins: Clarke Cripps Winmar Polo Stanley Steven Armitage McEvoy...... Clarke Stanley Steven. Then I added A Smith.

I reckon this gets the dead wood out (Eddy, Mini, Peake, McEvoy - sorry kid and the superfluous but admirable Blake) and brings in PACE. I think it's a good looking sort of effort to change the team without changing the team.

I reckon it looks a good team. Said all last year Blake, Dawson, Gwilt, Fisher, Gilbert don't fit in one team - Blake or Zac need to go.

[Bardon Saint]

B: GEARY DAWSON BLAKE
HB: CLARKE FISHER GWILT
C: GRAM HAYES MONTAGNA
HF: GAMBLE RIEWOLDT ARMITAGE
F: SCHNEIDER GILBERT STEVEN
R: KOSI DAL SANTO GODDARD

Int: MILNE RAY JONES MCEVOY

Below are players who may not have a regular spot and the players who could put them under pressure for their position

1. Gardiner: not sure if he'll be right to go in 2011

2. Geary v Polo, Simpkin, Dempster, Cripps, Baker (We have a few vying for a BP/HB position)

3. Clarke v Cripps, Simpkin, Dempster

4. Gram v Cripps, Peake (Gram needs to be injury free!!)

5. Gamble v Lynch (must be a marking option)

6. Milne v Heyne, Mini

7. Armitage v Smith

8. Steven v Smith

I've tried to be a little more offensive. In doing so, it is difficult to find a posi for mini.

The backline is a little old hat but I'm liking the forward line. The backline has been our strength and doesn't need radical changing. The fwd line however needs a little reworking. I'm a little unsure of Stanley in a key position hence Gilbert.

[borderbarry]

I would like to suggest that Simpkin could give Dawson a break at FullBack, Winmar should be given a few games, and maybe add Siposs to the HF marking options.