Sorting out the playing list

[mad saint guy]

We've seen that while you may be able to get away with filling gaps with bit-part players from other clubs during the home and away season, however it is the genuinely talented players who will win you grand finals. I believe we have far too many mediocre battlers who wouldn't get a look at any other club, and we need to replace as many of them as possible with players who have actual talent for the game.

The Core: These guys are who you can build your team around. They play their position very well and have the skills required
Brendon Goddard
Lenny Hayes
Nick Riewoldt
Sam Fisher
Sam Gilbert
James Gwilt
Jason Blake
Adam Scheider
Nick Dal Santo
Leigh Montagna
Stephen Milne
Jason Gram

The injury-prone: Good players who we may not be able to rely on due to reoccuring injury problems
Raph Clarke
Michael Gardiner

The B-Graders: Solid AFL players who when in good form can be useful and have considerable merit. You never want too many of them though and a drop in form can leave them completely ineffectual
Justin Koschitzke
Farren Ray
Clint Jones
Jarryn Geary
Brett Peake
Zac Dawson
Sean Dempster
Andrew McQualter

The strugglers: Not really AFL standard, backup option only
Adam Pattison
Robert Eddy

The hopefuls: Players capable of breaking into the senior team in 2011 and cementing their spot
Ben McEvoy
David Armitage
Jack Steven
Luke Miles
Alistair Smith
Tom Simpkin
Tommy Walsh
Rhys Stanley

Stuck in limbo: These guys don't seem to be progressing particularly well but aren't getting themselves delisted either. Need a good 2011 season
Nick Heyne
Tom Lynch
Nicholas Winmar

Gone
Steven King
Steven Baker
Will Johnson
Paul Cahill


The way I see it is that there are 10 spots up for grabs next year. The core is solid and any major improvement will come from the hopefuls group. If Armitage, Steven, McEvoy and a couple of others can really make a stamp on the game then we should go forwards in 2011. Trade targets could include Dean Cox, Daniel Kerr, Patrick Veszpremi, Ryan Gamble, Nathan Djerkurra, Ben McKinley and several others. We need more midfield class and half forward potency.

My preferred 2011 team (excluding trades, hopeful of major development from young players)

B: Gwilt, Dawson, Miles
HB: Gram, Blake, Fisher
C: Dal Santo, Hayes, Jones
HF: Schneider, Riewoldt, Gilbert
F: Milne, Walsh, Steven

Foll: Gardiner, Goddard, Montagna
Int: Armitage, Smith, McEvoy, Ray

[#1GILL]

I'm happy that I can finally say this, but:
Add Dawson to the core. His finals were terrific, all of them! He's shown us all why Ross has showed faith in him. Won't be surprised if he makes the AA squad of 40 next year.

[mad saint guy]

I'm happy that I can finally say this, but:
Add Dawson to the core. His finals were terrific, all of them! He's shown us all why Ross has showed faith in him. Won't be surprised if he makes the AA squad of 40 next year.

I was tempted to put Dawson in there, I agree he had a wonderful finals series, but he needs to back it up next year. He played a lot of ordinary footy this year and needs to keep up his high standard of the finals.

[Bigmal47]

ou cant be serious surely Dal is a better option than either Armo or Smith

[BringBackMadDog]

Surely Leaving Dal out was an error?? Or have we all lost our minds

[FQF]

Surely Leaving Dal out was an error?? Or have we all lost our minds

It was an error, seeing as he was placed in the core group.

On that topic... I see Dal as an almost identical type of player to Pendlebury.

[degruch]

Amazed at posters calling Baker gone...not only did he have a great H&A season, he's also contracted for next year!

[Rooey_for_PM!]

Dal is in the core group Mad Saint listed.

Dawson has been up and down, but to his credit he's been up when it counted. I think it might be a bit early to call with Jones, Peake and Ray - we will have to see how they perform next season.

Also you would have to think that Gardi is still going to be a core player if reports are true he's staying, despite possible injury worries. Kosi I have always been fond of and although I know he doesn't set the world on fire, I'd put him in the core group - nobody shoot!

[Rooey_for_PM!]

Amazed at posters calling Baker gone...not only did he have a great H&A season, he's also contracted for next year!

This. There's been a massive over-reaction to the twitter comment.

[Eastern]

The club only has 1 Day to sort things out before the trade period starts. And, without a list manager either as Matthew Drain has gone !!

[#1GILL]

The club only has 1 Day to sort things out before the trade period starts. And, without a list manager either as Matthew Drain has gone !!

Does that mean it starts tomorrow or Tuesday?

[Eastern]

The club only has 1 Day to sort things out before the trade period starts. And, without a list manager either as Matthew Drain has gone !!

Does that mean it starts tomorrow or Tuesday?

Tuesday. Was put back 1 day because of the GF Replay !!

[vacuous space]

Very harsh on Tom Lynch. He missed a fair chunk of the year with injury. He was then in the best nearly every week for two months at Sandy. He got pantsed by a player with 300+ more games of experience in his one game at AFL level. I'm not too concerned about that.

With Lynch's combination of size, football skill and athletic ability, he's probably got the highest ceiling of any prospect we've got right now.

[borderbarry]

Yes, I thought it was very poor coaching to leave him on Fletcher for the whole match.

[degruch]

Very harsh on Tom Lynch. He missed a fair chunk of the year with injury. He was then in the best nearly every week for two months at Sandy. He got pantsed by a player with 300+ more games of experience in his one game at AFL level. I'm not too concerned about that.

With Lynch's combination of size, football skill and athletic ability, he's probably got the highest ceiling of any prospect we've got right now.

Absolutely agree, but was a harsh call dropping him in the poo for his first gig, wasn't it? Can hardly do the poor kid's confidence much good.

[lefty]

Very harsh on Tom Lynch. He missed a fair chunk of the year with injury. He was then in the best nearly every week for two months at Sandy. He got pantsed by a player with 300+ more games of experience in his one game at AFL level. I'm not too concerned about that.

With Lynch's combination of size, football skill and athletic ability, he's probably got the highest ceiling of any prospect we've got right now.

I'm sorry, but Lynch looked far too slow, I don't know if he or Kosi would win a sprint tbh. We don't need another slow forward....

[mad saint guy]

Surely Leaving Dal out was an error?? Or have we all lost our minds

It was an error, seeing as he was placed in the core group.

On that topic... I see Dal as an almost identical type of player to Pendlebury.

Yep, my bad. Will fix it now

[vacuous space]

Can hardly do the poor kid's confidence much good.

I think his confidence was shot by the time he was moved into the backline. Still, Nathan Buckley raved about his attitude (amongst other things) after spending time with him at the AIS. The fact that he went back to Sandy and was in the best regularly after that would back that up.

[mad saint guy]

I think the big question for Ross is do we persist with the B-Graders, or cut our losses and look for some real talent? Peake, McQualter, Ray, Dempster etc can fill a hole but are never going to be a major factor in winning a premiership; sometimes they can negate, but I'd much rather have someone who can hurt the opposition rather than nullify them.

The ruck situation will be interesting. There are more and more teams going with the one genuine ruck and one versatile backup (Jolly/Brown, Sandilands/Bradley, Ottens/Hawkins) which has been quite successful. Gardiner sounds like he'll go for one more year and I don't think we can have both Kosi and McEvoy in the side. Kosi is much more useful when he can ruck and drift forward rather than start out of the square, while McEvoy isn't strong enough to be a starting ruckman and not athletic enough to be a regular forward. I think we have three options

1) Keep Gardiner and McEvoy as the regular ruckmen with Kosi forward. Keeps us reasonably strong in the ruck but deprives us of an extra runner and gives us a slow, predictable forward line.

2) Recruit a Dean Cox and have him as number one ruck with Kosi the second ruckman and sometimes forward target (ala Leigh Brown). This means Gards is gone (doubt he could take the large majority of the ruck and would need a true partnership so he's out) and McEvoy is competing with Kosi for a game. Strong ruck division, extra runner in the side and more mobile forward line.

3) Back in Kosi and McEvoy to hold down the ruck. We'd lose the hitouts evey week but both are fairly capable around the ground and might be able to kick a goal or two. This allows us to rotate Kosi/McEvoy/Gilbert/Goddard through the forward line to help Roo and hopefully have another permanent marking target (Walsh/Lynch/recruit)

Option 1 is the safest, but won't give us any improvement. Option 2 is the harshest and isn't good for long-term development, but would give us the best chance at a flag in 2011. Option 3 would keep us flexible and could have very mixed results.

[Bernard Shakey]

Very harsh on Tom Lynch. He missed a fair chunk of the year with injury. He was then in the best nearly every week for two months at Sandy. He got pantsed by a player with 300+ more games of experience in his one game at AFL level. I'm not too concerned about that.

With Lynch's combination of size, football skill and athletic ability, he's probably got the highest ceiling of any prospect we've got right now.

Tom will be a 200 game player for St Kilda.
Not many know he had very serious surgery this year.

[Bernard Shakey]

I think the big question for Ross is do we persist with the B-Graders, or cut our losses and look for some real talent? Peake, McQualter, Ray, Dempster etc can fill a hole but are never going to be a major factor in winning a premiership; sometimes they can negate, but I'd much rather have someone who can hurt the opposition rather than nullify them.

The ruck situation will be interesting. There are more and more teams going with the one genuine ruck and one versatile backup (Jolly/Brown, Sandilands/Bradley, Ottens/Hawkins) which has been quite successful. Gardiner sounds like he'll go for one more year and I don't think we can have both Kosi and McEvoy in the side. Kosi is much more useful when he can ruck and drift forward rather than start out of the square, while McEvoy isn't strong enough to be a starting ruckman and not athletic enough to be a regular forward. I think we have three options

1) Keep Gardiner and McEvoy as the regular ruckmen with Kosi forward. Keeps us reasonably strong in the ruck but deprives us of an extra runner and gives us a slow, predictable forward line.

2) Recruit a Dean Cox and have him as number one ruck with Kosi the second ruckman and sometimes forward target (ala Leigh Brown). This means Gards is gone (doubt he could take the large majority of the ruck and would need a true partnership so he's out) and McEvoy is competing with Kosi for a game. Strong ruck division, extra runner in the side and more mobile forward line.

3) Back in Kosi and McEvoy to hold down the ruck. We'd lose the hitouts evey week but both are fairly capable around the ground and might be able to kick a goal or two. This allows us to rotate Kosi/McEvoy/Gilbert/Goddard through the forward line to help Roo and hopefully have another permanent marking target (Walsh/Lynch/recruit)

Option 1 is the safest, but won't give us any improvement. Option 2 is the harshest and isn't good for long-term development, but would give us the best chance at a flag in 2011. Option 3 would keep us flexible and could have very mixed results.

You're asking a hell of a lot of Kosi, who hasn't been able to deliver in 10 years and won't next year either.

[Thinline]

I think the big question for Ross is do we persist with the B-Graders, or cut our losses and look for some real talent? Peake, McQualter, Ray, Dempster etc can fill a hole but are never going to be a major factor in winning a premiership; sometimes they can negate, but I'd much rather have someone who can hurt the opposition rather than nullify them.

The ruck situation will be interesting. There are more and more teams going with the one genuine ruck and one versatile backup (Jolly/Brown, Sandilands/Bradley, Ottens/Hawkins) which has been quite successful. Gardiner sounds like he'll go for one more year and I don't think we can have both Kosi and McEvoy in the side. Kosi is much more useful when he can ruck and drift forward rather than start out of the square, while McEvoy isn't strong enough to be a starting ruckman and not athletic enough to be a regular forward. I think we have three options

1) Keep Gardiner and McEvoy as the regular ruckmen with Kosi forward. Keeps us reasonably strong in the ruck but deprives us of an extra runner and gives us a slow, predictable forward line.

2) Recruit a Dean Cox and have him as number one ruck with Kosi the second ruckman and sometimes forward target (ala Leigh Brown). This means Gards is gone (doubt he could take the large majority of the ruck and would need a true partnership so he's out) and McEvoy is competing with Kosi for a game. Strong ruck division, extra runner in the side and more mobile forward line.

3) Back in Kosi and McEvoy to hold down the ruck. We'd lose the hitouts evey week but both are fairly capable around the ground and might be able to kick a goal or two. This allows us to rotate Kosi/McEvoy/Gilbert/Goddard through the forward line to help Roo and hopefully have another permanent marking target (Walsh/Lynch/recruit)

Option 1 is the safest, but won't give us any improvement. Option 2 is the harshest and isn't good for long-term development, but would give us the best chance at a flag in 2011. Option 3 would keep us flexible and could have very mixed results.

You're asking a hell of a lot of Kosi, who hasn't been able to deliver in 10 years and won't next year either.

So have we signed him up for two years on behalf of Sandy then?

He'll ruck.

There's simply no other reason for him to be on the list. The role he plays forward has now been rendered obsolete by Collingwood's benchmark game plan.

[resaintlee]

Too harsh on Eddy, his possession count might not be that high but his courage, reading of the play, tackling and spoiling in particular have had supporters gasping around me over the finals period.

[mad saint guy]

You're asking a hell of a lot of Kosi, who hasn't been able to deliver in 10 years and won't next year either.

Since 2005 Kosi has been a ruckman who has been forced to play forward for team structure. He won't set the world on fire in the ruck but as a backup he can provide some energetic bursts and have some influence. He has become a liability in the forward line and should no longer be in the team unless he's rucking. I'd love to see him as a backup to Dean Cox. Kosi's TOG should be something like 35% ruck, 30% forward, 35% bench.

[plugger66]

You're asking a hell of a lot of Kosi, who hasn't been able to deliver in 10 years and won't next year either.

Since 2005 Kosi has been a ruckman who has been forced to play forward for team structure. He won't set the world on fire in the ruck but as a backup he can provide some energetic bursts and have some influence. He has become a liability in the forward line and should no longer be in the team unless he's rucking. I'd love to see him as a backup to Dean Cox. Kosi's TOG should be something like 35% ruck, 30% forward, 35% bench.

Is Kosi going to the WCE?