Zack v Maxy who is better??

[saint58]

NOw that i have your attention.People forget that Zack has played only about 45 games its well know that players dont start to understand there role till about 50-60 games.

And as defenders its even more difficult,I remember Max as a back pocket half back flanker with the Waiklin brothers and he put in a few shockers and clangers.People asked for his head as well but he turned out to be a fair full back (best in the bloody league)

So lets just get off Zack a bit and wait till he has a few more games under his belt plus he needs more help form the other defenders and midfield.He did some good things on sunday night as well.

[Gracie]

+ 1

[joffaboy]

Well you sucked me in Saint58.

Agreed with your post

[ausfatcat]

Hudgton was nearl AA in his first full season in97

[Spinner]

NOw that i have your attention.People forget that Zack has played only about 45 games its well know that players dont start to understand there role till about 50-60 games.

And as defenders its even more difficult,I remember Max as a back pocket half back flanker with the Waiklin brothers and he put in a few shockers and clangers.People asked for his head as well but he turned out to be a fair full back (best in the bloody league)

So lets just get off Zack a bit and wait till he has a few more games under his belt plus he needs more help form the other defenders and midfield.He did some good things on sunday night as well.

I hated Hudghton when he first started! Always turned it over.

[St Chris]

Hudgton was nearl AA in his first full season in97

No closer than Zac was last year. I think he was only behind Scarlett and Lake for average goals against.

This is a great topic, a bit of sense in these "dark days"!!!!!

[thejiggingsaint]

Zac was not one of our better players against Essendon. I honestly don't know if dropping him is the answer, but on last nights showing, something needs to be addressed in his game.

[The Sainter]

I don't think Zac came in our top ten last year in our Best & Fairest did he?

[wasaintsfan]

i dont know if zac would respond better to being dropped or a big boot honestly

hes got the potential we all know that but this year he wont give the players crap or anything

could it be due to his suspension last year? that he tries to back off a bit???

he needs to sit there early give his op some cheek and get his blood flowing

[Moccha]

is this thread a bit of a joke?

[dcstkfc]

Look Zac was solid last year, but he's battling at the moment, and sooner or later he needs a spell in the magoos.

He's not a terrible player, just in terrible form.

[georgie girl]

My biggest concern with Zac is what appears to be an inability to read the play. He often seems to have no idea where the ball is. This is not something that can be easily learnt. Max may have turned the ball over earlier on but I don't recall his judgement ever being poor. He was so good at getting a fist on to the ball and spoiling the mark, even if he gave away inches to his opponent.

[saintsRrising]

Zac's problem is that he is a "Zoning " full back now being subjected to more one on one contests due the speed that our opponents re-enter their forward line now.

This is not likely change anytime soon.

Last year Zac found favour over Max for two reasons:

1/ And perhaps crucially re: GF selection was that Max was injury prone in his last year. There was a fair risk that if selected may not finish out a game.

2/ Offensively he was a lot better kick than Max. So with a zoning set-up including how we look to set up play out of defence Zac found a "niche".

He played in space rather than on a body. Quick rebound is catching him out, and when one on one he seems to lose track of the ball allowing his opponent too easya ball too often.

When Harry Taylor started with the cats opposition coaches smelled blood and would look to isolate him. He grew into the role.

So Zac now has a huge challenge as opposition coaches are smelling his blood and will look to isolate him.

If we continue to rob our defence of it's best players this will only be more so.

Zac needs to re-invent himself,

[Enrico_Misso]

He seems to lack strength.
Bundled out of position too easily.

He also takes his eyes off the ball.
This makes him a prime candidate to give away frees.

Last year he was fantastic at keeping in contact with his opponent, watching the ball, and then getting a fist in.

Not so this year.
Perhaps it is related to whatever illness he had over the summer.
Heard he dropped 5 or 6 kilos, so maybe he is still being impacted by that?
Loss of strength?
+ Loss of conditioning?
= Loss of confidence?

[plugger66]

Hudgton was nearl AA in his first full season in97

That is just rubbish but I suppose it is a long time ago so some might beleive you.

[BallBanger]

NOw that i have your attention.People forget that Zack has played only about 45 games its well know that players dont start to understand there role till about 50-60 games.

And as defenders its even more difficult,I remember Max as a back pocket half back flanker with the Waiklin brothers and he put in a few shockers and clangers.People asked for his head as well but he turned out to be a fair full back (best in the bloody league)

So lets just get off Zack a bit and wait till he has a few more games under his belt plus he needs more help form the other defenders and midfield.He did some good things on sunday night as well.

You have to be kidding...max you could throw on to anyone and he would beat them period (big or small)...well before flooding was the norm

Was a disgrace dawson played ahead of him last yr....

[BallBanger]

Hudgton was nearl AA in his first full season in97

That is just rubbish but I suppose it is a long time ago so some might beleive you.

Where do you get off with your lies p66

maxy was very unlucky to miss aa 97

cannot compare zac to max

i know a few on here are children but come on p66 u r an old fart

[clarky449]

NOw that i have your attention.People forget that Zack has played only about 45 games its well know that players dont start to understand there role till about 50-60 games.

And as defenders its even more difficult,I remember Max as a back pocket half back flanker with the Waiklin brothers and he put in a few shockers and clangers.People asked for his head as well but he turned out to be a fair full back (best in the bloody league)

So lets just get off Zack a bit and wait till he has a few more games under his belt plus he needs more help form the other defenders and midfield.He did some good things on sunday night as well.

You have to be kidding...max you could throw on to anyone and he would beat them period (big or small)...well before flooding was the norm

Was a disgrace dawson played ahead of him last yr....

Far from a disgrace, Dawson was great last year, if Maxy played and got injured or had 4 goals kicked against him people would be filthy with Ross Lyon

[spert]

Max developed into one of our great modern players, but I definately remember him being pretty loose in his first couple of seasons, though the potential was there, just like Zac now, he tended to chase the pack, get away from goals and lose site of his opponent -but he got stronger, started to play the close checking game better as he went on. Zac has a good size body, can take a good mark and has a bit of aggro, so he should develop as he matures and the coaches get the bugs out of his game.

[saintspremiers]

Zac's problem is that the ball is rebonding into the defensive 50 way faster at the moment then it did at any time last year, as a result of not having Roo around taking away the opposition two best defenders.

He is fine as long the ball movement is slower, and we have time to play a full zone defence.

[degruch]

Hudgton was nearl AA in his first full season in97

No closer than Zac was last year. I think he was only behind Scarlett and Lake for average goals against.

Exactly. Besides, I can't remember loving Max's work during 2000/2001. As a young guy, Zac's being throw to the lions a little bit, he has had good patches amongst the carp though and will come good IMO. There is no other option at the moment, so I'm happy to live with Zac for now.

[BigMart]

In 1999 Max finished 3rd in the B&F - 3rd season

I believe Zac Dawson is in his sixth season...Max played about 3 reserves games in his career...Zac has played about 50-60 with Box Hill..

Lets not forget Max was a first round draft pick, Zac was a rookie...

Please don't compare a club legend, the other is a battler at best.....on current form he is a gumby...

lastly - on last year, he can thank frontal pressure, zoning and Jason Blake, Sam Fisher, Sam Gilbert or whoever else was third man up in every ariel contest in 09....Max went one on one.

[starsign]

I have similar misgivings with Zac as most with his current game
But keep on thinking of his potential...
then his mentor ...
...then No3 the mere fact that the powers that be keep persevering ... so I guess we just gotta go with the flow content in the knowledge that he's under the wing of arguably one of the best Full-Backs in the modern era??

Our options are a bit thin, but we do have them...but i think it's time for Zac to start putting into practice some of the obvious coaching instructions that must be now repeatedly given him.....(or are they??)

gotta say the defence per se has been great under SOS ...but Zac seems to be treading water in terms of development lately for mine

[plugger66]

Hudgton was nearl AA in his first full season in97

That is just rubbish but I suppose it is a long time ago so some might beleive you.

Where do you get off with your lies p66

maxy was very unlucky to miss aa 97

cannot compare zac to max

i know a few on here are children but come on p66 u r an old fart

You are the one lying. Max was no where near AA in 97. That is made up rubbish. Making things up isnt your go as people will find you out and this is clearly made up. By the way I wasnt compared Max to Zac so at least read before you comment

[BallBanger]

Max developed into one of our great modern players, but I definately remember him being pretty loose in his first couple of seasons, though the potential was there, just like Zac now, he tended to chase the pack, get away from goals and lose site of his opponent -but he got stronger, started to play the close checking game better as he went on. Zac has a good size body, can take a good mark and has a bit of aggro, so he should develop as he matures and the coaches get the bugs out of his game.

Max was quick and attacking back then...had to tighten up later because we needed him to play that role and he became the best in the business