Dawson or Goose

[mohannair]

Hindsight may say that Goose would have helped Zac to overcome the form slump he is having.

[degruch]

Hindsight may say that Goose would have helped Zac to overcome the form slump he is having.

Meh...Collingwood could only manage 4 goals against us, the last thing we need to worry about is out backline. Zac's OK, would help if the umpires had applied the same rules to him on the weekend, as they did to Harry O'Brien.

[linz]

I really hope Dawson gets his confidence back but I am preferring Maguire by a country mile at the moment.

I know Matty wanted to go but we probably didn't offer him much encouragement to stay.

Having said that I hope they both improve and end up having long and successful careers with their respective clubs.

[busso mick]

Unfortunately its a by-product of our success and also our small injury list last year. We can't have expected Goose to hang around and play in the 2's, because he was only insurance for us (last year).

Having said all that I would prefer him there to Dawson because he looks lost at the moment. Our game against the Bulldogs in a few weeks with Hall as a match up will be interesting.

[na exa]

goose ... i still can't believe we gave him to someone else.

but i'd keep zac as well.

he's been through the wringer in his short footy career ...he'll end up a winner.

and so will we ...imo

[SainterK]

Curious, has Goose played on any of the big forwards of the comp yet, and who has been his opponents these first three rounds?

Zac may be down on confidence, and looking a little out of form, but unless I am mistaken he is only guilty of 'almost' letting someone kick a bag so far this season?

What happened to all the people that said there was no 'I' in defence, and that it was a team effort that made our defence so strong last year?

[saintsRrising]

Hindsight may say that Goose would have helped Zac to overcome the form slump he is having.

I don't understand this question.

However if you mean would Goose be better than Zac for Full Back, then I would say that Goose does not have the pace to play Full Back. So no.


Across HB where Goose is ok for Lions the two Sam's are much better players.

For our tall utility in the backline Blake is better than Goose.

[rodgerfox]

Zac's been very well protected since his time at the Saints. Maybe early on he held his own, but since then he's been very ordinary.

Very average foot skills, very low risk decision making, and woeful on-on-one.

Having said that, Goose isn't a FB either.

[Spinner]

Zac's been very well protected since his time at the Saints. Maybe early on he held his own, but since then he's been very ordinary.

Very average foot skills, very low risk decision making, and woeful on-on-one.

Having said that, Goose isn't a FB either.

That is totally incorrect.

If anything his skills by foot are above average, especially for a backline player.


Regarding goose - agreed he isnt a full back. Does he have the speed to be one? Personally i dont think so.

[rodgerfox]

Zac's been very well protected since his time at the Saints. Maybe early on he held his own, but since then he's been very ordinary.

Very average foot skills, very low risk decision making, and woeful on-on-one.

Having said that, Goose isn't a FB either.

That is totally incorrect.

If anything his skills by foot are above average, especially for a backline player.


Regarding goose - agreed he isnt a full back. Does he have the speed to be one? Personally i dont think so.

I think that's a myth that has gathered momentum due to the 'efficiency stat'.

Zac's efficiency statistically is Ok because he gets left alone by the opposition when we have the pill, and because he does these telegraphed sideways short kicks to blokes standing completely on their own.

Even these kicks often arrive on the half volley or even with on the second bounce.

He has a very slow drop and release and virtually holds up a sign telling everyone who he plans on kicking the nut to. Never breaks a line with his kicking.

Alot of full-backs take risks these days and have the skills to do so. Scarlett, Fletcher, Rutten, even Harris use the ball well and take risks to set up play.

Lyon clearly likes what he's doing, and there isn't really anyone banging the door down to pinch his role either.

Our midfield and our overall defence flatter Zac. He's not quick overly quick either.

[rodgerfox]

Regarding goose - agreed he isnt a full back. Does he have the speed to be one? Personally i dont think so.

He used to have incredible pace for a heavy guy when he was younger, but I'm not sure he was ever lightning off the mark.

I also think the other strengths in his game (marking, long kicking) wouldn't really be utilised at FB. Playing him there, you'd pretty lose a good CHB and get an ordinary FB.

[Spinner]

Zac's been very well protected since his time at the Saints. Maybe early on he held his own, but since then he's been very ordinary.

Very average foot skills, very low risk decision making, and woeful on-on-one.

Having said that, Goose isn't a FB either.

That is totally incorrect.

If anything his skills by foot are above average, especially for a backline player.


Regarding goose - agreed he isnt a full back. Does he have the speed to be one? Personally i dont think so.

I think that's a myth that has gathered momentum due to the 'efficiency stat'.

Zac's efficiency statistically is Ok because he gets left alone by the opposition when we have the pill, and because he does these telegraphed sideways short kicks to blokes standing completely on their own.

Even these kicks often arrive on the half volley or even with on the second bounce.

He has a very slow drop and release and virtually holds up a sign telling everyone who he plans on kicking the nut to. Never breaks a line with his kicking.

Alot of full-backs take risks these days and have the skills to do so. Scarlett, Fletcher, Rutten, even Harris use the ball well and take risks to set up play.

Lyon clearly likes what he's doing, and there isn't really anyone banging the door down to pinch his role either.

Our midfield and our overall defence flatter Zac. He's not quick overly quick either.

Havnt seen any efficiency stats - Just know he is a reliable left foot kick.



I remember Bomber thompson telling a story that he had Scarlett as a back up developing full back....Had a bloke (maybe named simpson?) of similar age that was in front of him.

Harris took ages to become dominate.

Zac's only had 30 games or so.... I am hopeful - but he's clear weakness is strength one on one when it comes in quick....But most would struggle in those circumstances.

[Mr Magic]

Zac's been very well protected since his time at the Saints. Maybe early on he held his own, but since then he's been very ordinary.

Very average foot skills, very low risk decision making, and woeful on-on-one.

Having said that, Goose isn't a FB either.

That is totally incorrect.

If anything his skills by foot are above average, especially for a backline player.


Regarding goose - agreed he isnt a full back. Does he have the speed to be one? Personally i dont think so.

I think that's a myth that has gathered momentum due to the 'efficiency stat'.

Zac's efficiency statistically is Ok because he gets left alone by the opposition when we have the pill, and because he does these telegraphed sideways short kicks to blokes standing completely on their own.

Even these kicks often arrive on the half volley or even with on the second bounce.

He has a very slow drop and release and virtually holds up a sign telling everyone who he plans on kicking the nut to. Never breaks a line with his kicking.

Alot of full-backs take risks these days and have the skills to do so. Scarlett, Fletcher, Rutten, even Harris use the ball well and take risks to set up play.

Lyon clearly likes what he's doing, and there isn't really anyone banging the door down to pinch his role either.

Our midfield and our overall defence flatter Zac. He's not quick overly quick either.

Havnt seen any efficiency stats - Just know he is a reliable left foot kick.



I remember Bomber thompson telling a story that he had Scarlett as a back up developing full back....Had a bloke (maybe named simpson?) of similar age that was in front of him.

Harris took ages to become dominate.

Zac's only had 30 games or so.... I am hopeful - but he's clear weakness is strength one on one when it comes in quick....But most would struggle in those circumstances.

I watched the fullback of the century, Steve Silvagni, get absolutely destroyed by plugger at Moorabbin one day.
Tried to play him every way possible and nothing worked for him.
Heard David Parkin say afterwards that he never thought about shifting him off plugger becasue he knew that whatever SOS did would be better than any other option he had.
Some days the opposition is just going to win against Zac, or anybody for that matter.

I've seen Barry Hall take Goose apart
I saw David Neitz take Max apart twice in the same season.
I've seen Jonothan Brown take everybody apart.
I've seen Roo take every opponent apart.
I've never seen either Scarlett or Fletcher play on Roo - their coaches obviously don't see much merit in playing them on him.

[ThomasR]

Even as Saints fans I think we sometimes underrate just how good Max was. Almost unanimous praise by modern forwards as their toughest opponent, pretty big shoes to fill. I am far from the biggest Dawson fan but he is always going to be marked harshly. Similar to being a spin bowler for Australia.

Zac does need to stop turning his back on the ball and maybe keep better touch with his man when the ball is up the field (and learn how to kick over the man on the mark off the goal line) but we need to show him some support as he is quickly becoming whipping boy in chief while Raph is out of the side and that is not doing anybody any good. I would like to know how he lost all that weight over summer because it seems to have had some effect on his strength and more so his confidence.

Very happy for Maguire to be getting a gig up in Brisbane but his decision making is still not up to scratch (will only improve with more match practice) and his slow turning circle has left him exposed quite a few times from what I've seen - as has been said already he's better suited to a role off half back and we already have a number of players who are very good at this role. In terms of potential going forward and even current output he is nowhere near where Zac is - do not be fooled by Supercoach scores. Take nothing away from Matt, he was a super talent and a very good, courageous player at his peak but injuries have cruelled him and the time away from the game more than anything has seen him lose a lot of touch.

[Milan Faletic]

Hindsight may say that Goose would have helped Zac to overcome the form slump he is having.

Meh...Collingwood could only manage 4 goals against us, the last thing we need to worry about is out backline. Zac's OK, would help if the umpires had applied the same rules to him on the weekend, as they did to Harry O'Brien.

And he got pushed by a Collingwood player into the back of another one.

I agree. 40 game player and he will get better. Give him game time. There's a lot more to our defence than simply contesting the mark. We scored 7.7 last week from defensive rebounds out of 10.9

They also slowed the tempo really well when trying to regroup with Roo and Fisher off. Although it did annoy some Saints supporters at the time, it was exactly the right thing to do while we restructured. Zac is part of that defensive system. Max showed when he came back against Essendon last year that he just didn't fit in to that structure. The game has changed and quick handballs or switching the play are now critical in finding the pathway to goal.

[Con Gorozidis]

Hindsight may say that Goose would have helped Zac to overcome the form slump he is having.

i think the key is how johnson and simpkin shape up as contenders...

[Saintsfan]

Zac's been very well protected since his time at the Saints. Maybe early on he held his own, but since then he's been very ordinary.

Very average foot skills, very low risk decision making, and woeful on-on-one.

Having said that, Goose isn't a FB either.

That is totally incorrect.

If anything his skills by foot are above average, especially for a backline player.


Regarding goose - agreed he isnt a full back. Does he have the speed to be one? Personally i dont think so.

I think that's a myth that has gathered momentum due to the 'efficiency stat'.

Zac's efficiency statistically is Ok because he gets left alone by the opposition when we have the pill, and because he does these telegraphed sideways short kicks to blokes standing completely on their own.

Even these kicks often arrive on the half volley or even with on the second bounce.

He has a very slow drop and release and virtually holds up a sign telling everyone who he plans on kicking the nut to. Never breaks a line with his kicking.

Alot of full-backs take risks these days and have the skills to do so. Scarlett, Fletcher, Rutten, even Harris use the ball well and take risks to set up play.

Lyon clearly likes what he's doing, and there isn't really anyone banging the door down to pinch his role either.

Our midfield and our overall defence flatter Zac. He's not quick overly quick either.

Stop being so correct.

[Leo.J]

Zac's been very well protected since his time at the Saints. Maybe early on he held his own, but since then he's been very ordinary.

Very average foot skills, very low risk decision making, and woeful on-on-one.

Having said that, Goose isn't a FB either.

That is totally incorrect.

If anything his skills by foot are above average, especially for a backline player.


Regarding goose - agreed he isnt a full back. Does he have the speed to be one? Personally i dont think so.

I think that's a myth that has gathered momentum due to the 'efficiency stat'.

Zac's efficiency statistically is Ok because he gets left alone by the opposition when we have the pill, and because he does these telegraphed sideways short kicks to blokes standing completely on their own.

Even these kicks often arrive on the half volley or even with on the second bounce.

He has a very slow drop and release and virtually holds up a sign telling everyone who he plans on kicking the nut to. Never breaks a line with his kicking.

Alot of full-backs take risks these days and have the skills to do so. Scarlett, Fletcher, Rutten, even Harris use the ball well and take risks to set up play.

Lyon clearly likes what he's doing, and there isn't really anyone banging the door down to pinch his role either.

Our midfield and our overall defence flatter Zac. He's not quick overly quick either.

Stop being so correct.

Get a room you two.

[saintsRrising]

Things are always relative..

Compared to Max, Zac's offensive side was superior. Both kicking and decision-making.

Max of course was easily better defensively. Max was elite.

However last season durability and risk of not lasting out a game was another factor at play.

Anyway neither Goose nor Max are at the Saints in 2010.

[gringo]

One thing Ross is not big on is the blaze away and boot long into the forward half of the ground. Saints will hold possession with players breaking for each other all over the ground. Zac is obviously listening to the game plan and sets up with short kicks wide. At least you dont see the ball rebounding straight back in over and over that way. He is not a gorilla full back but we didn't have one when max was there. Hall got on top of him without the backline set up because Fisher was off. He did panic but Hall was in some rare form in the NAB. Cloke should not have got as many frees as he did and the result flattered him. The umpires felt sorry for Cloke because he just seems to have lost all form. Or maybe Dawson just looks so intimidating the umpires hammer him anyway?

[matrix]

gotta say i do miss goose coming off the back 50 and roosting it to near on our forward 50.

[35...LEGEND]

Anyone notice J Blake at the end of the pies game ..?

Went straight to Zac to give some encouragement.....Zac had the head down like a defeated man....obviously I am not the only one who thought Zac was cruelled by the ump's Fri night ..atleast 2,maybe more of those frees against were utter BS.

I will agree that he look's a bit suspect one on one at the moment,but i think he only needs to string a couple of good ones together,gain some confidence, and we will see the old Zac back.

He's a good player and important to the back 6 set up,and for that matter the overall set up.

I'm backing him to come good........




All opinion btw

[saintsRrising]

Anyone notice J Blake at the end of the pies game ..?

Yes. I watch ed the last quarter again last night on Bigpond and noticed that as well.


I think Blakey was part exited..and part wanting to fire up Zac.

[SainterK]

I am not here to defend his form, he has been shaky....

However Zac has only played 40 senior games of footy, we have seen how getting 50 games under your belt has done a lot for Jimmy.

As far as I can tell, he is under the pump for 'almost' letting Cloke kick a bag?

[Beno88]

Zac's had more disposals, more marks, more spoils and conceded less goals that he did in the first three games last year, yet this time last year everyone was raving about him. Now, despite statistically improving, everyone is calling for his head. Makes no sense.