Banger, Holding The Club Back?

[Pilgram]

You have to look at it for what it is.
He played the game tougher and harder than anyone.
However, his exit allows the new Sainters to come through.
It's now out with the old and in with the new.
This team is truly a new unit and the real deal.
There is nothing from the past that will plague this group.
They are young and funky.
I have a dream.
I have a dream that we will win the whole thing in 2010.

[kosifantutti23]

I guess Riewoldt is keeping someone out of the team as well.

[HarveysDeciple]

You have to look at it for what it is.
He played the game tougher and harder than anyone.
However, his exit allows the new Sainters to come through.
It's now out with the old and in with the new.
This team is truly a new unit and the real deal.
There is nothing from the past that will plague this group.
They are young and funky.
I have a dream.
I have a dream that we will win the whole thing in 2010.

Very very poor choice of words....It is the dawn of a new era, but Harvs wasn't holding anyone back, he was good player playing well enough to be selected.

[Pilgram]

Harvey was an enduring footballer .. and that was the problem.
For a frustrated old (~^7 Harvey was extra-ordinary.

In a perfectly balanced team no-one respects anyone else above themself.
In a perfectly balanced team the individual works for themself.

In "the dawn of the new era" the individual works for themself.
Team success is simply an extension of individual determination.

Crawford/Harvey: The difference was frustration.

[Pilgram]

I guess Riewoldt is keeping someone out of the team as well.

Roo is a freak!

[saintbob]

You have to look at it for what it is.
He played the game tougher and harder than anyone.
However, his exit allows the new Sainters to come through.
It's now out with the old and in with the new.
This team is truly a new unit and the real deal.
There is nothing from the past that will plague this group.
They are young and funky.
I have a dream.
I have a dream that we will win the whole thing in 2010.

Yeah I get the part about being a new era, as the great man had been there 21 years.

But saying that he was holding anyone back is just absolute DRIBBLE!!!!!

[SENsei]

Top 5 in the B&F in 2008. I'd say he was more than earning his spot.

[sainteronline]

to answer a question with a question

was crawford holding the hawks up?

dont blame 1 man for what a whole team couldnt do

absurd really (imho)

[sainteronline]

Crawford/Harvey: The difference was frustration.

how

[Moccha]

You have to look at it for what it is.
He played the game tougher and harder than anyone.
However, his exit allows the new Sainters to come through.
It's now out with the old and in with the new.
This team is truly a new unit and the real deal.
There is nothing from the past that will plague this group.
They are young and funky.
I have a dream.
I have a dream that we will win the whole thing in 2010.

I see your point but what about 2009?

[FortiusQuoFidelius]

However, his exit allows the new Sainters to come through.

His exit allows ONE new sainter to come through...

[bergsone]

Wish we had more like him HOLDING US BACK

[Saints Premiers 2008]

messiah syndrome yet again and pilgram is correct

hopefully saints fans have learnt from robert harvey and the worshipping of one idol doesn't bring success and only bring humor to the rest of the comp

[sainteronline]

messiah syndrome yet again and pilgram is correct

hopefully saints fans have learnt from robert harvey and the worshipping of one idol doesn't bring success and only bring humor to the rest of the comp

and i thought pilgrams post was crap

yours would have win hands down for the purest twaddle of 2008

and if your talking mental problems "delusional" springs to mind for you

now put both hands back on the keyboard

[WayneJudson42]

I agree with the sentiments of the op regards a changing of the guard. Perhaps it could have been better stated.

I doubt 35 held us back to be honest. What's held us back has been gutless admins to scared to give coaches the green light to make the tough calls on list management, until now.

As for hero-worshipping... anyone who erckons it doesn't exist is delusional. Just rewind and check out the cr@p about Lyon etc when 35 announced his retirement.

Oh, and does Ben Cousins ring a bell?

[SENsei]

messiah syndrome yet again and pilgram is correct

hopefully saints fans have learnt from robert harvey and the worshipping of one idol doesn't bring success and only bring humor to the rest of the comp

Again, top 5 in the B&F.

If he'd have had a shocker of a year, then your argument carries some weight.

But he didn't so your argument is bupkuss.

[meher baba]

The idea that having Harvey on our list was anything but a blessing for the club is a nonsense.

I have heard murmurings that Harves could potentially have been talked into playing on for yet another season (and crack the 400 game benchmark).

However, Lyon and the club hierarchy were of a similar mindset to some of the sillier posters on this forum and were therefore happy to see Harves go (and perhaps - although I hope this was not the case - they were already looking to bring Cousins to the club and thought that they wouldn't need both Harves and him).

IMO, if there was any chance at all of getting Harves to carry on, the club should have tried very hard to do this given that:

1. We didn't end up recruiting Cousins.
2. None of our 6 draftees look particularly capable of playing in the midfield engine room.
3. We will once again be starting 2009 with a significant injury list: Allen and Dempster out for sure, and question marks over Ball, Goose, X, Kosi and Bakes.
4. Armitage might turn out to be a good midfielder, but - ATM - I reckon McQualter is ahead of him, and McQualter is no great shakes.
5. Perhaps Steven and Connors are going to deliver the goods, but it's surely a bit early to tell.
6. If we can't get better players than Jones and Eddy onto the park to fill the roles they played in this year's final series, we are not going to get any further than a PF in 2009 (I know some posters on here think I am too harsh on Jones, but tell me which of the other top 8 teams this year he would have turned out for in a finals series).

It seems to me that we are in danger of being seriously undermanned in 2009. We have barely got 30 players of proven AFL quality, and we might start the season with 7 of these on the injury list.

I can't see how Harvey's departure makes any difference to this situation whatsoever.

[sainteronline]

I agree with the sentiments of the op regards a changing of the guard. Perhaps it could have been better stated.

I doubt 35 held us back to be honest. What's held us back has been gutless admins to scared to give coaches the green light to make the tough calls on list management, until now.

As for hero-worshipping... anyone who erckons it doesn't exist is delusional. Just rewind and check out the cr@p about Lyon etc when 35 announced his retirement.

Oh, and does Ben Cousins ring a bell?

1) what has ben cousins got to do with hero worshipping Robert Harvey or to him holding us back

2) nothing wrong with hero worshipping a true football hero, such as Robert Harvey, that's one of the reasons I watch football to see the true greats playing

P.S. there is no actual "changing of the guard" there is only a gradual replacement of players on a seasonal basis,

[bob__71]

One thing that does ring true (to me) from the thread is that Harves towards the end was in it for him. If he had of extended his career so that he could play for the team he loves that would be one thing. But he played his last few years to try and get his hands on the cup. He stated many times that had we won a premiership he would retire. Nothing wrong with wanting one, but in the end winning a premiership would have meant the end of Harves, and I think that was a burden for him to place on his team mates shoulders.

Harves was a great player for the club, but he owes St Kilda just as much as St Kilda owes him, nothing. And he is at Carlton now anyways.

[Saints Premiers 2008]

I agree with the sentiments of the op regards a changing of the guard. Perhaps it could have been better stated.

I doubt 35 held us back to be honest. What's held us back has been gutless admins to scared to give coaches the green light to make the tough calls on list management, until now.

As for hero-worshipping... anyone who erckons it doesn't exist is delusional. Just rewind and check out the cr@p about Lyon etc when 35 announced his retirement.

Oh, and does Ben Cousins ring a bell?

1) what has ben cousins got to do with hero worshipping Robert Harvey or to him holding us back

2) nothing wrong with hero worshipping a true football hero, such as Robert Harvey, that's one of the reasons I watch football to see the true greats playing

P.S. there is no actual "changing of the guard" there is only a gradual replacement of players on a seasonal basis,

ben cousins was seen as the messiah to lead us to glory, to take us that one entire step forward...to get us to the holy grail yadda yadda yadda

he was already worshipped on here despite his previous problems...

he was worshipped...harvey was worshipped...comprehendo?

[HarveysDeciple]

Essendon messiah like support of Hird, easily the equal of our admiration for Harvs.....easily.

Lions and Swans with Brown, Hall etc. Blues with Judd....we are not the only club....every side in the league has it in some regard....

Clutching at straws if people link that in anyway to our lack of success.

[sainteronline]

One thing that does ring true (to me) from the thread is that Harves towards the end was in it for him. If he had of extended his career so that he could play for the team he loves that would be one thing. But he played his last few years to try and get his hands on the cup. He stated many times that had we won a premiership he would retire. Nothing wrong with wanting one, but in the end winning a premiership would have meant the end of Harves, and I think that was a burden for him to place on his team mates shoulders. (What do you think each and every one of the players out there and in every team are playing for, to do exactly the same thing, hold up the premiership cup,before they retire)
Harves was a great player for the club, but he owes St Kilda just as much as St Kilda owes him, nothing. And he is at Carlton now anyways.(?)

[Sobraz]

Im certain Hawks supporters dont idolise Franklin...

Harvs earnt his spot in the best 22, same as he would have with his output if he was 21 years old... I firmly believe there was no favouritism and sentiment in his selection....

Looking at it purely from a performance level, he had an excellent year, and actually didnt warrant retirement... The only reason he has moved on is his age states it should be time, so follow the norm... Although he has been an exception for some years..

All this crap about us not winning the flag cos of our indvidual hero worship is immature, uninformed rubbish... We didnt win the flag this year cos we had a number of players who arnt up to the level; Harvey was not one of those..

If we dont get more output from the positions held be the likes of Mini, Gwilt, Eddy, CJ etc, the we wont win the flag again...

Then I guess we'll have to blame Max.. He's the next oldest isnt he...

Rubbish OP...

[sainteronline]

I agree with the sentiments of the op regards a changing of the guard. Perhaps it could have been better stated.

I doubt 35 held us back to be honest. What's held us back has been gutless admins to scared to give coaches the green light to make the tough calls on list management, until now.

As for hero-worshipping... anyone who erckons it doesn't exist is delusional. Just rewind and check out the cr@p about Lyon etc when 35 announced his retirement.

Oh, and does Ben Cousins ring a bell?

1) what has ben cousins got to do with hero worshipping Robert Harvey or to him holding us back

2) nothing wrong with hero worshipping a true football hero, such as Robert Harvey, that's one of the reasons I watch football to see the true greats playing

P.S. there is no actual "changing of the guard" there is only a gradual replacement of players on a seasonal basis,

ben cousins was seen as the messiah to lead us to glory, to take us that one entire step forward...to get us to the holy grail yadda yadda yadda
(not by me, but yet he could have helped us (imho) get a flag, that's not hero worship, that's just a fact he is a great player,)
he was already worshipped on here despite his previous problems...
(do you mean because of his football ability? Don't think it was worshipped, just would have been (once again imho) a handy acquisition)
he was worshipped...harvey was worshipped...comprehendo?

Harvey is worshipped yes

Ben cousins was not worshipped

[makaveli]

it should be illegal to say such things about the great man!