We've done really well

[the shadow]

FWIW I think the recruiting staff (it's a relief to use that in the plural sense) have done an outstanding job in the past two years, especially given our positions in the pecking orders.

When John Peake came to the job just over a year ago, he was confronted with a list that contained a number of ageing stars, too many middle-of-the-road players and very little in the way of promising youth.

Saturday's draft was another step in securing the long-term competitiveness of the list. Tom Lynch is not only an outstanding young player, but an exceptional young man. The way he overcame his
ACL injury impressed all concerned. He is a future leader and will fit in well with the other fine leaders we now have. Strike another blow for our no d***heads policy. Contrary to what some say on here, he can really play too. I wouldn't be surprised if he plays a fair bit of senior footy next year. Along with Paul Cahill (long-term, I know) and Jarryd Allen, we now have three potential forward KP Players or third talls.

Another coup was Rhys Stanley. Big, good hands, mobile, and some mongrel in him. Comes from a great family that has overcome great hardship recently. A tight-knit, supportive family always helps in the development of character, and this kid has it in spadefuls. Along with McEvoy and McGrath, we now also have three great ruck prospects for when King and Gardiner go. Two years ago we had Clark and Rix.

Nick Heyne was, along with Tom Swift, the steal of the draft. Widely tipped to go 20-25, Heyne fills the need for a medium forward/midfield gap. He's also tough, skilful and has plenty of development and improvement in him. Another strong character and by all reports, leadership material as well.

Alistair Smith is very quick and breaks lines. Described as strong bodied
with a big vertical leap, good ball winning skills and can play outside/inside. Can take a good overheard grab with a big motor and an accurate left boot. Only queries are his right side (typical leftie!) and the fact he has had the dreaded OP, but is apparently over it. Fingers crossed! At least now we have two great prospects in the medium forward area.

Throw in Farren Ray and his running ability and the expected improvement in a bottom age pick of last year, Jack Steven, and suddenly we have some cause for hope in the pace/running department.

Begley is a bit of an unknown, but given he has only been playing Aussie Rules for 4 years, and the fact that he is an exceptional athlete with pace and stamina, he is worth a punt, especially as we've only paid for him with pick 83.

So in the past 2 years we have rid ourselves of a number of players who were never going to bring as a flag in Rix, Fiora, Gardiner, Birss, Howard, Clark, Raymond, Sweeney, Ferguson etc. and replaced them with King, Dempster, M. Gardiner, Schneider, McEvoy, Steven, Connors, Lynch, Heyne, Stanley, Smith, Cahill, Begley, Eddy, Geary, Jones and Mini.

I know there is a long way to go in the development of the younger players, and history tells us that some of them won't make it, or fulfill their potential, however the short term for this group is as promising as it has been over the past few years. Where we have really improved things is that the medium and long-term outlooks are so much better than they were just 12-15 months ago.

Full marks to John Peake, Paul Collins and JB (Still an advisor). It's amazing what a few extra hands on deck, and appropriate resourcing can do! I for one am excited about 2009 and beyond. I wouldn't have said that at the end of the 2007 season. Go Sainters











tanding

[iwantmeseats]

wow, explained like that, my hope meter is starting to twitch!

[saintsRrising]

Good post....

[Devilhead]

Liked what I saw of the Stanley highlights - great athletism for such a big bloke and seems to have good awareness of players around him - marking and kicking skills seem very good as well - could well be the pick of the bunch down the track

also like what I saw of Smith - from the highlights he burst away from a few contests and backed himself by running with the ball and spotting up a target - his ball drop looks a little unorthodox however he kicks were still well weighted and he found his targets

Like the fact that we also recruited players that are strong in the air - all our recruits look like the all have good pair of mits on them

[Legendary]

The first post is one of the best I've ever read on saintsational.

Highlights a strong recruiting/list management process at the Saints over the last couple of years.

[saintbrat]

ST KILDA
1. Allen, Jarryd
2. Armitage, David
3. Baker, Steven
4. Ball, Luke
5. Begley, Colm
6. Blake, Jason
7. Cahill, Paul
8. Clarke, Raphael
9. Clarke, Xavier
10. Connors, Eljay
11. Dal Santo, Nick
12. Dempster, Sean
13. Eddy, Robert
14. Fisher, Leigh
15. Fisher, Sam
16. Gardiner, Michael
17. Geary, Jarryn
18. Gilbert, Sam
19. Goddard, Brendon
20. Gram, Jason
21. Gwilt, James
22. Hayes, Lenny
23. Heyne, Nick
24. Hudghton, Max (veteran – outside list)
25. Jones, Clinton
26. King, Steven
27. Koschitzke, Justin
28. Lynch, Tom
29. Maguire, Matt
30. McEvoy, Ben
31. McQualter, Andrew
32. Milne, Stephen
33. Montagna, Leigh
34. Ray, Farren
35. Riewoldt, Nick
36. Schneider, Adam
37. Smith, Alistair
38. Stanley, Rhys
39. Steven, Jack
Rookie List
1. Haretuku, Khan
2. McGrath, Blake
3. Miles, Luke
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.

ADDITIONS
Father-Son selection: –
Exchange period – received: Farren Ray (Western Bulldogs)
Rookie elevation: Robert Eddy, Andrew McQualter
Scholarship elevation: Blake McGrath (Pennant Hills) – rookie list
NAB AFL Draft: Colm Begley (Brisbane Lions), Paul Cahill (Sturt), Nick Heyne (Gippsland Power), Tom Lynch (Sandringham Dragons), Alistair Smith (Perth), Rhys Stanley (West Adelaide)
International rookie selection: –
Three-year non-registered player selection: –
NAB AFL Pre-Season Draft:
NAB AFL Rookie Draft:

DELETIONS
Retired: Fraser Gehrig, Robert Harvey (veteran – inside list)
Exchange period – traded: –
Delisted: Shane Birss, Matthew Ferguson, Aaron Fiora, Charlie Gardiner, Brad Howard (second list lodgment), Michael Rix, Jayden Attard (rookie), Glenn Chivers (rookie), Luke van Rheenen (rookie)

List as it stands Dec 2nd 2008
thanks to bob murray

[chook23]

People must always remember that only 15% of all draftees reach 100 games.......

obviously includes all the stars taken early.........over the years

the strike rate

= approx 1 of the six taken will reach 100 games

the churn rate is very high

but every year a lot think everyone (all picks) will make the grade....

history says not.

yes the balance of the list seems to be improving though.

[saintspremiers]

excellent post, well laid out.

Would be interesting to get GT's reaction to it, as he had zero clue with respects to the continual rebuilding required of an AFL list!

I'm sure Mr Dial-a-quote will have a say on it soon on SEN!

[Mr Magic]

People must always remember that only 15% of all draftees reach 100 games.......

obviously includes all the stars taken early.........over the years

the strike rate

= approx 1 of the six taken will reach 100 games

the churn rate is very high

but every year a lot think everyone (all picks) will make the grade....

history says not.

yes the balance of the list seems to be improving though.

I also heard that statistic on the radio somewhere(SEN) but they were at pains to point out that as the 'science' in selecting draft picks has gotten better, then that success rate has improved.

Just look at the single draft year of Roo, Kosi, Dal, Goose, Joey - all have played 100 games (Goose would have except for injuries)

[Teflon]

People must always remember that only 15% of all draftees reach 100 games.......

obviously includes all the stars taken early.........over the years

the strike rate

= approx 1 of the six taken will reach 100 games

the churn rate is very high

but every year a lot think everyone (all picks) will make the grade....

history says not.

yes the balance of the list seems to be improving though.

well said Chook - Brad Howard was an elite athlete just needed to learn the game.....Caydn Beetham a great talent.........so many "great kids" dont eventuate.

Nick Riewoldts/Judds/Sellwoods are rare - you only need to look at Kosi to see that (not a slight on Kos...hes just mortal thats all)

[Seaford_Saint]

Just reviewing SaintBrat's lists above (thanks Saintbrat).....

I can only come up with 6 players on the current list who I would consider have:
a) played their best footy already and have show signs of being on the way down, or
b) have been tested at the highest level and show a high-risk of not being up to the required standard

(you can actually read my defintions for a) and b) as politically correct versions of "has beens" or "never will be's".... but I wouldn't dare say that )

So the list falling into category a) is:
- Baker (injury)
- X Clark (injury)
- Maguire (injury)
- Gardiner (injury)

And the list for category b) is:
- Gwilt
- McQualter

Before I finish, let me say:
- I hope I'm wrong about Stevie Baker (I love him)... but I think he might be found out in 09
- Similarly for Xavier. He's at the cross roads. He may yet become a 200 game star. Yet he's equally likely to be delisted next year.
- Maguire very unlucky with injuries - he's done everything right to control all the controllables, he must have run over a black cat in the Ute of his. However, anyone with high hopes for this guy is going to be very disappointed.

A total of 4 in category a) and 2 in category b), is a SIGNIFICANT improvement on where the list stood 12 and 24 months ago.

I concur fully with the OP.

[jays]

great post dude

[WayneJudson42]

People must always remember that only 15% of all draftees reach 100 games.......

obviously includes all the stars taken early.........over the years

the strike rate

= approx 1 of the six taken will reach 100 games

the churn rate is very high

but every year a lot think everyone (all picks) will make the grade....

history says not.

yes the balance of the list seems to be improving though.

well said Chook - Brad Howard was an elite athlete just needed to learn the game.....Caydn Beetham a great talent.........so many "great kids" dont eventuate.

Nick Riewoldts/Judds/Sellwoods are rare - you only need to look at Kosi to see that (not a slight on Kos...hes just mortal thats all)

Sp on that logic, you xcan only select the ones you reckon will make it. The more you pick, the higher the odds that they will.

Also, don't forget that the other 15 clubs face the same reality, it levels out, doesn't it?

[chook23]

People must always remember that only 15% of all draftees reach 100 games.......

obviously includes all the stars taken early.........over the years

the strike rate

= approx 1 of the six taken will reach 100 games

the churn rate is very high

but every year a lot think everyone (all picks) will make the grade....

history says not.

yes the balance of the list seems to be improving though.

I also heard that statistic on the radio somewhere(SEN) but they were at pains to point out that as the 'science' in selecting draft picks has gotten better, then that success rate has improved.

Just look at the single draft year of Roo, Kosi, Dal, Goose, Joey - all have played 100 games (Goose would have except for injuries)

Has improved over the years...that was a good year for us but does include 1,2,13

but yes (and natural/want) a lot expect and talk up all our picks........
though

[Teflon]

Just reviewing SaintBrat's lists above (thanks Saintbrat).....

I can only come up with 6 players on the current list who I would consider have:
a) played their best footy already and have show signs of being on the way down, or
b) have been tested at the highest level and show a high-risk of not being up to the required standard

(you can actually read my defintions for a) and b) as politically correct versions of "has beens" or "never will be's".... but I wouldn't dare say that )

So the list falling into category a) is:
- Baker (injury)
- X Clark (injury)
- Maguire (injury)
- Gardiner (injury)

And the list for category b) is:
- Gwilt
- McQualter

Before I finish, let me say:
- I hope I'm wrong about Stevie Baker (I love him)... but I think he might be found out in 09
- Similarly for Xavier. He's at the cross roads. He may yet become a 200 game star. Yet he's equally likely to be delisted next year.
- Maguire very unlucky with injuries - he's done everything right to control all the controllables, he must have run over a black cat in the Ute of his. However, anyone with high hopes for this guy is going to be very disappointed.

A total of 4 in category a) and 2 in category b), is a SIGNIFICANT improvement on where the list stood 12 and 24 months ago.

I concur fully with the OP.

I would not say X Clarke has played his best footy yet.

Id also add C Jones/L Fisher to not gonna be existant in a Premiership side.

Rest I agree with and that obviously wont include who wont make it from this batch.....yes there will be a "Mathew Ferguson"......in there...one can only hope we get more hits than misses and maybe another Sam Fisher.

[Seaford_Saint]

Teffer's - hence my comment about X Clarke being at the cross roads.... imho... he's either:
a) Undeniably out of the place next year, or
b) going to be there until 2013 at least.

[Teflon]

Teffer's - hence my comment about X Clarke being at the cross roads.... imho... he's either:
a) Undeniably out of the place next year, or
b) going to be there until 2013 at least.

yeah Im in agreement he needs to deliver in 2009...its that simple.

I still reckon Ive seen glimpses of what he could be.....I cant help but feel he tried to turn himself into this kamakazi type in ands under when imo at his best hes more the mercurial type - can and will lay a tackle....Id just like someone at the club to instruct him that hes job is to break lines.......not bones.

[saintbrat]

Just reviewing SaintBrat's lists above (thanks Saintbrat).....

It's thanks to bob murray he found it ..

still one move to be made on it - it's been along preseason

[Legendary]

Seaford_Saint, that was a sensational post.

Shows that our list is now almost entirely proven players or players who are yet to be tested/developed.

Gives us huge upside and also a lot of stability.

[Bernard Shakey]

X will have a big year in '09 and don't forget that Howard will probably be redrafted as a rookie, although I don't think he's up to AFL standard.

This club is on the march and I'm really glad I'm on board (although I've been on board for over 50 years).

[Batnoe]

as well as having all of these new exciting players we are also lucky enough to have the chance of having those players coming back from injury

we could conceivably have some very exciting 'new recruits' and i use the term loosely in X Clarke- can u imagine if he plays all 22 games + finals?

Maguire- our backline and team looks so much more settled and bigger with him there

Baker- he is very tough


These 3 players missed a big chunk of 08, if they all rekindle their form, just imagine at how different our team will be!!

Then you add in the added improvement of Armo and Steven

Allen and McEvoy getting a few more games

+ the surprise of this years crop getting some games and our future is still good...

I liked GT when we had him but i think it was one of the best decisions once we got rid of him, our list was stagnating and i cannot imagine where our list would be with GT still in charge!!

we probably would have finished in 12th- not 4th

He was good while he was there and if it not of injuries we would have won the flag, on second thoughts if he wasnt there we probably would have won 2!!

[Teflon]

I liked GT when we had him but i think it was one of the best decisions once we got rid of him, our list was stagnating and i cannot imagine where our list would be with GT still in charge!!

we probably would have finished in 12th- not 4th

He was good while he was there and if it not of injuries we would have won the flag, on second thoughts if he wasnt there we probably would have won 2!!

Ive said from day 1 the best thing Butters did was get rid of the meglomaniac. IF he was still at the helm Harvey would be 2 yrs gone, Milne traded and his favorite Frankie Peckett lining up for his 400th.

THE point is we have a coach who technically understands football - everything from his efforts to get Misson to the club to improve our fitness to the drafting to fill IMMEDIATE holes hes identified indicate he has a plan and can at least identify the sides strengths/weaknesses. Some suggest hes changed game plan away from the so called Sydney style....I dont believe he has....I reckon your wathing a side naturally come to understand it and what the coach wants. I expect that to be in sync in 2009 - its long enough.

His first year we slipped outside the 8 just..
Year 2 top 4

Gonna be an interesting year 09...a make or break for many players and maybe the Lyon game plan.

[Batnoe]

I liked GT when we had him but i think it was one of the best decisions once we got rid of him, our list was stagnating and i cannot imagine where our list would be with GT still in charge!!

we probably would have finished in 12th- not 4th

He was good while he was there and if it not of injuries we would have won the flag, on second thoughts if he wasnt there we probably would have won 2!!

Ive said from day 1 the best thing Butters did was get rid of the meglomaniac. IF he was still at the helm Harvey would be 2 yrs gone, Milne traded and his favorite Frankie Peckett lining up for his 400th.

THE point is we have a coach who technically understands football - everything from his efforts to get Misson to the club to improve our fitness to the drafting to fill IMMEDIATE holes hes identified indicate he has a plan and can at least identify the sides strengths/weaknesses. Some suggest hes changed game plan away from the so called Sydney style....I dont believe he has....I reckon your wathing a side naturally come to understand it and what the coach wants. I expect that to be in sync in 2009 - its long enough.

His first year we slipped outside the 8 just..
Year 2 top 4

Gonna be an interesting year 09...a make or break for many players and maybe the Lyon game plan.

GT thought he owned the club and that is part of the reason why i cant stand hearing his name today cause he has nothing to do with it yet people still ask what he thinks of the list!??

he is not the coach, he never will be..... get over him he has probably cost us more than he gave us

We got to 2 prelim finals... and pre season cup

Lyon has done 1 prelim and 1 pre season cup as well as get rid of crap and fill our list with things we need (youth for the future)

If GT was still at the club i could see we would have delisted 3 players this year only to pick them back up in the draft...

Ferguson would have had his 7th season on a lift for 10 games
Rix would have had his 4th season on the list for no games next year... what a waste of a coach

I am behind you Lyon, your gameplan and your footy nous will take us places!!

[my les foote]

I also heard that statistic on the radio somewhere(SEN) but they were at pains to point out that as the 'science' in selecting draft picks has gotten better, then that success rate has improved.

Just look at the single draft year of Roo, Kosi, Dal, Goose, Joey - all have played 100 games (Goose would have except for injuries)

Roo and Kosi were 2000.

Surely you mean Ball, X, Dal, Goose and Joey from 2001

[Batnoe]

I also heard that statistic on the radio somewhere(SEN) but they were at pains to point out that as the 'science' in selecting draft picks has gotten better, then that success rate has improved.

Just look at the single draft year of Roo, Kosi, Dal, Goose, Joey - all have played 100 games (Goose would have except for injuries)

Roo and Kosi were 2000.

Surely you mean Ball, X, Dal, Goose and Joey from 2001

The only dud we had was Houlihan in the 01 draft but we picked up a few players from the draft since

one in Gram is a great pick up who will be a 250 game player for the club, all those players listed above barring injury will play that many for the saints