underwhelming credit to Lyon...

[saintsRrising]

I have been reading the various threads tonight and I would have to say that Lyon does not see to be getting the credit he deserves.


* He brought in two more runners and quick players in Schneider and Fiora to play a team where all but Max were capable of having run in the midfield. He copped a HUGE bag from most on this.

Result was that we outran the Hawks in the second half.....and that our run and legspeed were excellent

* He got most of his match ups right. BJ 's lack of pace was exposed early on in the backline and the Hawks exploited it. RL re-adjusted the backline to counter.

* He swung Blake into the ruck at the right time. Mini to shut down Mithchell etc etc..

*He kicked Dal, Milne...and through them the balance of the team up the bum a few weeks ago to lift the workrate of the WHOLE team. Players such as Kosi have noticeably lifted since.


*The Saints are now obviously a pretty fit team...able to run out games strongly...made more so with good team and structural selections.

Lyons fingerprints were all over tonights win....and great credit is due to him.

[Otiman]

Agreed.

He has come on in leaps and bounds this year. Whether something has 'clicked' or not, the results are coming, and the fruits of his effort, as well as the team, are starting to show.

However, If I have something negative to say, it is the shuffling of the matchups in the first ~10 minutes. Franklin ran Max up the ground, and Lyon shifted him onto Roughead.

It was all a bit of a kerfuffle and players didn't seem sure of who they were supposed to be playing on.

Perhaps that's a plus for Clarkson rather than a minus for Lyon, but I would hope to think that various opposition scenarios with regards to matchups would be discussed before the match.

[JeffDunne]

Other than playing Schneider down back early I thought he had an outstanding night.

Even though the first half looked bad, I thought difference between the teams was some individual brilliance from a few Hawthorn players, some poor excecution from us, and some lucky free kicks to them. The effort for the most part was there.

[Saints43]

I've had major doubts about RL's abilities working with the group.

But wrote somewhere else:

We ran the ball around the wing and then at centre wing tried to find an option in the centre corridor to attack them directly. Unfortunately the players really used the ball poorly in the first half.

We turned the game by pressuring them. 52 tackles tonight. They didn't start kicking it out on the full because they can't play.

Ross Lyon's coaching of quick handball skills when coupled with effective tackling is grand.

And if he keeps getting that effort and attitude out of the group then we are back.

That second half of football was as good as you'll see. And there's scope for improvement generally.

12 goals to three in the second half.

[meher baba]

Easily Lyoms best game as a coach. He did excellently with matchups. He showed flexibility. He promoted attack over flooding

All good

But, gee, weren't the two Nicks awesome. I wouldn't swap either of em for anyonr!!

[Ball_Breaker]

Good job Ross, I actually was enthused by the selection of Fiora thinking he would complement the way we've been playing the last couple of weeks but i don't think he did enough tonight to cement himself in the 22. But back to the coach he is a bit of a King Midas at the moment. I've just watched the 2nd half after getting home from the game and I think Walls hit the nail on the head when he mentioned the courage of Lyon's decision to drop Dal and Milney and play the kids against Freo - the results since are pretty evident.

[saintsRrising]

. He promoted attack over flooding

bollocks,,,game plan still the same.

[Otiman]

. He promoted attack over flooding

bollocks,,,game plan still the same.

I'm sure the basic gameplan has remained the same, but you'd have to be a fool to believe that it hasn't had some tweaking as of late.

Any major gameplan changes puts your development back months, as players get used to the new one, and problems are ironed out.

[Saints43]

. He promoted attack over flooding

bollocks,,,game plan still the same.

Do you think the gameplan hasn't changed from Round One 2007?

Every player was 'accountable' - reactive - all the time. This isn't the case now. Where I once saw Gehrig chase O'Halpin downfield in Round Two (for nerly 15 minutes) I saw Riewoldt turn immediately back towards goal when Waite tried the same thing in Round 15.

We are a long way from the rubbish that was being played last year & into this season. (I didn't see the NAB cup).

And the list is not very different. It's not just execution of the same plan has improved IMO. The plan has changed. And I would expect it to change as familiarity improves.

[saintsRrising]

lyon has since day one said that he wanted to see more forward pressure....and for the players to be attacking.

How many times does he and the players have to state this???

When we play well rather than credit the coach and the gameplan posters just want to say that we were "attacking " for a change....

Bollocks I say. I think the quote tonight on the replay I just watched was that our possessions was the highest in the clubs history? The team is still playing Lyons pssession game. Difference was tonight you at last saw how he wanted it delivered!!!

Yes poor workrate was up...our excecution and confidence up. Yes players like Roo are fully fit.....

Yes no gameplan is 100% static...but the main difference is execution. On of the "yek' tonight was playing more runners.

We execution Lyon's gameplan tonight.

Gredit is due the coach...rather than this "myth" that we won because we were "attacking" fora change.

[joffaboy]

YUP SrR from watching the replay just now I dont think we changed our gameplan from the first to the second half, still the same however changed some of the matchups and got some extra run out of the middle from Dal and Blake.

Fantastic to have the option of dropping Gram and Fisher back in defence and out of the middle and have players like Blake to come in and be a game breaker. Also Mini tightened the screws on Mitchell and the Hawk mids stopped as Dal took control ably assisted by Harvs and Lenny and Luke Ball and Joey.

Great third quarter and well coached by Lyon.

Really getting some things to happen.

[desertsaint]

Lyon's season is like Blake's game - having a great 3rd quarter!

[meher baba]

. He promoted attack over flooding

bollocks,,,game plan still the same.

Bollocks back to you.

Until a few weeks ago, lyon was obsessed with locking down opponents, having four or more taggers, having two old-fashioned ruckmen to win ball at stoppages, having players turn and sprint back towards the opponents goal when they got the ball, corralling over tackling, and all that tempo football nonsense

And don't give me any of that rubbish about lyon not wanting this and the players collectively disobeying him and choosing to play the swans style (perhaps because they thought that was what he really wanted?)

Stuff and nonsense. Some of our improvement has come from having more fit stars available and the rest has come from lyon finally finding the confidence to chuck the Rodney Eade/Paul Roos textbook away and start to coach: making his own decisions, responding to what happens on the park, etc

You can see it in his body language. He has at last come of age as a coach. Good on him: I and many others had given up on him. I guess we have to say that the dropping of dal and milne was a turning point in his career. It can go down in history as the day he pulled his finger out and took charge of the team from GT. And the players began to respond

Suddenly that appalling list that GT left behind - plus a few good additions - is looking.like a bunch of world-beaters once more

Baker, Gardi,X,Gehrig (if fit)will have to fight for a spot

All good

[St. Luke]

Before last night I've been very sceptical about exactly how good Lyon might be......while again, I was cursing what I saw in the first half "Again!!! This stinking flooding, over-handled game style!" ....but then! Some of the quickest, free-flowing footy I've seen from us. Why we can't play an entire game like the 2nd half is beyond me. An arm wrestle in the 1st half??? Whatever, I'm beginning to see there is more than meets the eye to Lyon...and I'm very glad about it!

[markp]

You can see it in his body language. He has at last come of age as a coach. Good on him: I and many others had given up on him. I guess we have to say that the dropping of dal and milne was a turning point in his career. It can go down in history as the day he pulled his finger out and took charge of the team from GT. And the players began to respond

Suddenly that appalling list that GT left behind - plus a few good additions - is looking.like a bunch of world-beaters once more

Baker, Gardi,X,Gehrig (if fit)will have to fight for a spot

All good

Maaate, don't be one of the "I was right then, I'm still right now" brigade, it's so tiresome.... you wanted him sacked a few weeks ago, and led the sniping. Own it.

PS- let the whole GT thing go while you're at it.

[StSteven]

Great win.......but will wait a little longer before getting excited.

[markp]

Great win.......but will wait a little longer before getting excited.

If you didn't get excited by last night, go see a doctor.....

[meher baba]

You can see it in his body language. He has at last come of age as a coach. Good on him: I and many others had given up on him. I guess we have to say that the dropping of dal and milne was a turning point in his career. It can go down in history as the day he pulled his finger out and took charge of the team from GT. And the players began to respond

Suddenly that appalling list that GT left behind - plus a few good additions - is looking.like a bunch of world-beaters once more

Baker, Gardi,X,Gehrig (if fit)will have to fight for a spot

All good

Maaate, don't be one of the "I was right then, I'm still right now" brigade, it's so tiresome.... you wanted him sacked a few weeks ago, and led the sniping. Own it.

PS- let the whole GT thing go while you're at it.

As I have always said, I call it like I see it

I was definitely wrong. I thought and said that Lyon wasn't a pimple on a coach's bum. Last night he comprehensively outcoached the much-vaunted Clarkson

I thought dropping Dal was an act of desperation by a coach who was seriously up against it (and indeed it was, but it worked!)

But I have been consistently right about one thing. Our list is more than ok. Nothing to do with GT, everything to do with 2008

Most of those fabulous low draft picks and elevated rookies at Hawthorn that posters like sRr have been rabbiting on about looked like crap last night

And hands up all those posters who whinged on this forum a few weeks ago that the decision to delist Guerra in 2005 was the worst in the history of the club. Where would you have played him in our lineup last night?

I was wrong in saying that Lyon couldn't coach. I admit it. (Although let's not get too far ahead of ourselves: he has a way to go to vindicate the events of September 2006)

But I was right about the list. Tell me otherwise

[StSteven]

Great win.......but will wait a little longer before getting excited.

If you didn't get excited by last night, go see a doctor.....

I get excited when we win the war (flag) not one battle along the way. But hey it was good to see.

Geelong just beat (no thrashed) second place Bulldogs and I like their attitude as expressed by Bomber Thompson.

"Look, nobody out the back is doing handstands," he said, when asked if the Cats would discount the Bulldogs as a genuine threat."

They look at the big picture.

[meher baba]

BTW

I thought we played a more attacking style of footy right throughout the game last night: not just in the second half.

[markp]

You can see it in his body language. He has at last come of age as a coach. Good on him: I and many others had given up on him. I guess we have to say that the dropping of dal and milne was a turning point in his career. It can go down in history as the day he pulled his finger out and took charge of the team from GT. And the players began to respond

Suddenly that appalling list that GT left behind - plus a few good additions - is looking.like a bunch of world-beaters once more

Baker, Gardi,X,Gehrig (if fit)will have to fight for a spot

All good

Maaate, don't be one of the "I was right then, I'm still right now" brigade, it's so tiresome.... you wanted him sacked a few weeks ago, and led the sniping. Own it.

PS- let the whole GT thing go while you're at it.

As I have always said, I call it like I see it

I was definitely wrong. I thought and said that Lyon wasn't a pimple on a coach's bum. Last night he comprehensively outcoached the much-vaunted Clarkson

I thought dropping Dal was an act of desperation by a coach who was seriously up against it (and indeed it was, but it worked!)

But I have been consistently right about one thing. Our list is more than ok. Nothing to do with GT, everything to do with 2008

Most of those fabulous low draft picks and elevated rookies at Hawthorn that posters like sRr have been rabbiting on about looked like crap last night

And hands up all those posters who whinged on this forum a few weeks ago that the decision to delist Guerra in 2005 was the worst in the history of the club. Where would you have played him in our lineup last night?

I was wrong in saying that Lyon couldn't coach. I admit it. (Although let's not get too far ahead of ourselves: he has a way to go to vindicate the events of September 2006)

But I was right about the list. Tell me otherwise

Good work..... I never blamed the list or the coach (you didn't have to be in one camp or the other did you?)... and none of this means we are a genuine flag contender of course, just that the rubber is hitting the road.

I don't think RL has ever acted out of desperation, I think he is a very (sometimes overly so, according to some) cool, measured and level headed bloke.

Interesting watching the mids do their pre-game warm up by the way, they were practicing tap downs, followed by quick handballs then thumping it straight and deep into the forward 50....

It may actually be that the people at the club don't even quite know what has really changed from the start of the year till now, so it's laughable that so many on here act as if they are/were certain.... I just hope we can keep doing what we are doing!

Last nights game was unforgettable.

[JeffDunne]

Lyon has definately made changes in the structure since earlier in the season. Roo is playing closer to goal, we aren't playing loose men behind the ball as often, we've moved players like Gram from defensive positions to where we can better use their attacking skills.

I reckon he's changed his thoughts on playing two-ruckman and allowed players like Kosi & Blake to pinch hit.

Interesting too that as much as moving Blake into the centre had an instant effect, so too did moving Milne up the ground. Some of his work in the centre was first rate early in the 3rd.

Most of all the mindset has changed. Lyon needs to take credit for that.

[BigMart]

Ross tried a few things early......NONE of them worked

*Goddard vs Williams (shocker)
*Blake vs Roughie (not sure who fisher was on)
*Gram vs Hodge (to the well once too often, Clarkson would have seen this one coming.....Hodge is a very different player to Judd)
*Schnieder in the back pocket vs Rioli (shocker)

Then changed a lot, and it ALL worked

*Gilbert onto Williams
*Schnieder fwd
*Fisher to Roughie
*Blake to the Ruck
*McQualter to Mitchell
*Gram to Rioli at HB
*Milne into the midfield

Dempster vs Bateman was the only 4q match-up that was OK


The inspiration from Nick and Nick did not hurt

[rodgerfox]

Let's be honest - we have a top 4 list.

All that is happening now, is we're actually playing like one.

Nothing too impessive, just doing what we should be doing considering the talent of our list.

We're back in the game.

[markp]

Let's be honest - we have a top 4 list.

All that is happening now, is we're actually playing like one.

Nothing too impessive, just doing what we should be doing considering the talent of our list.

We're back in the game.

A wise man once said that a list is just a piece of paper....

Give it a rest.