The Fox Report - 23/6/08

[rodgerfox]

Well, what an easily pleased beast the average Saints fan is.

We've accepted what happened on Friday night - infact alot have embraced it.

That's a concern on it's own.


There were however, some positives. The Fox Report this week will only focus on these, as I think my 'negative' views are pretty clear. No need to regurgitate them.....


Roo finally playing the role he should have been playing his entire career. No one can stop him in that role. Worst case is he doesn't kick goals - if that happens he takes about 97 marks across HB and through the midfield. If he is 'tagged' whilst up the ground, then he outruns his man heading forward and then hurts them on the scoreboard.

Luke Ball's form. Man oh man, wouldn't our history be different if we had Luke fit and Lenny fit in 05 and 06 during the finals?? Luke Ball is a freak, and thank god to whoever it was that dragged him into the operating room to get his groin fixed properly.

Lenny Hayes's form. See above. 06 was considered a bad year for us - watch Friday night as a bit of an insight as to why! He is seriously one of the best going around. Hard man, Hard, hard man. He's one who this year, doesn't seem happy to be in Harves' shadow.

Ben McEvoy. Really liked his debut. He seemed to be comforatble with being an AFL player. The other debutants didn't. They looked timid mentally. McEvoy however, seemed quite at home. Even when Pavlich was giving him a spray he gave a him a shove back. Wasn't a brutal shove, but for a first gamer to be proud enough to bite back when a super star such as Pavlich is having a crack at him, showed something.

Goddard flying the flag for Luke Ball. After Ball was polaxed, Allen was standing and hesitated to remonstrate. He did, but it appeared he did because he felt he had to. BJ however made a beeline and meant business. Hopefuly doesn't cop a week for attempting to remove the Freo ruckman's scalp, but to be honest it would be worth it. Was great to see.

Jason Gram breaking lines again. Great game by Gram and he really, was the difference I felt. Once Gram breaks a line and kicks a goal - the opposition have to do something. If they don't, he'll do it again. Simple. When he's running, he really does become the 'x factor'. His goal late in the game was against the tide, and against the style of play we'd become trapped in for the past 2 quarters.

We won. We won yet another close game. I wonder if something could be bothered doing the stats on the close games we've won in the past 2 years, and reverse the results. Just out of curiosity, where would be at now?
They say good sides win the close ones, but I tend to think that the lucky ones do. Maybe it's a bit of both.



Some other things to ponder -

What about Jeff Farmer's 'chicken wing' on Luke Ball? Very dangerous, and as blatant an act of thuggery as you'll see.

Did anyone else see Roo being 'tunnelled' in the goal square in the first quarter? Far more blatant than anything Bolton did to him.

[saint66au]

Good read Rodger

The only point I'll take you to task with is Robert Eddy..didnt look timid to me, looked very committed to sticking his head over the footy. Would you have changed your opinion of Allen if, when he was alone at HF in the last, had kept running and slotted the goal rather than stopping, hesitating and dinking it sideways/backwards?

Apart from that, agree with you pretty much 100%

[JeffDunne]

I think, to be fair, anyone impressed with Friday nights performance (me included) was impressed with the effort rather than the result.

Given the players we had out when Lenny went down, the best we could have hoped for was a win on the back of a 4 quarter effort. We got that.

[spert]

Good report.. I think Eddy showed the most from the three debutants, though McEvoy and Allen will improve with more gametime and all three have a future, and at least all got some of the ball.
Roo definately must be in a roaming mode to be most effective for sure.

[NoMore]

I don't see how you can be impressed with Roo playing across half back. He is payed alot of money to be the best player in the team. We could get a GOP to play loose across half back and do a similar job.

Lots of possessions don't make a great game. It is where you get them and what you do with them. In my opinion if he thinks he is a superstar he should hold down full forward or CHF. We could recruit Jason Cloak to be third man up.

I think that really Ross bereft of his own ideas just copied Terry Wallace. For us to win any finals or even make the finals Roo has to be dominant as a forward

[yipper]

I don't see how you can be impressed with Roo playing across half back. He is payed alot of money to be the best player in the team. We could get a GOP to play loose across half back and do a similar job.

Lots of possessions don't make a great game. It is where you get them and what you do with them. In my opinion if he thinks he is a superstar he should hold down full forward or CHF. We could recruit Jason Cloak to be third man up.

I think that really Ross bereft of his own ideas just copied Terry Wallace. For us to win any finals or even make the finals Roo has to be dominant as a forward

He kicked 3 last time I checked - leading goal scorer in the team, widely acclaimed as BOG by the "experts". He was dangerous all night. Had a bigger impact on the result than Pavlich did!!

[NoMore]

good on him he kicked 3. Against the worst side in the competition. while playing on no one. Must have been a tough night for him.

If he was Best On people obviously didn't watch Luke Ball or Robert Harvey. These 2 guys get hammered but u don't see them running round behind the ball sneaking forward. They do the tough stuff all night.

I'm sorry but Roo playing there is a cop out. We play our best football when he is at CHF either kicking goals or setting them up.

I can't remember what we won by but if anyone was happy with that game they are kidding themselves. You need to kick at least 15 goals a week to be competitive in this comp. 10 goals whouldn't win u a game in A section Amatuers

[yipper]

NoMore said: "Thought Milney had a real crack but Dal was poor even though he was tagged hard."

Yes and we know how good your observation skills are now. You just see what you want to see I'm afraid!! So, yeah whatever!!

[NoMore]

So u believe that 22 disposals for an elite AFL Midfielder was a great game in the VFL.

Godd for you.

If your happy with mediocrity then thats good for you because the saints are capable of serving plenty of that up.

Dal is ELITE. I was at the ground and cannot see into the packs from the boundary but he was nowhere near as good as you would expect.

Lets all just rave about being Freo then we will continue with the theory our list has gone from top 4 to bottom 4 in 4 months and then we will all jump on westaways bandwagon and support a dud for 10 years.

Friday night was a great chance to play attacking football against a terrible team on friday night with the whole AFL watching. Instead Ross alienated more supporters again by boring us to tears.

But we will all buy a membership next year including me because we love the club. I need to see some sort of improvement in this team. I am not. If i employed you to run a big company and in 18 months you had turned them into a basket case you would not have a job.

Simple as that

[rodgerfox]

good on him he kicked 3. Against the worst side in the competition. while playing on no one. Must have been a tough night for him.

If he was Best On people obviously didn't watch Luke Ball or Robert Harvey. These 2 guys get hammered but u don't see them running round behind the ball sneaking forward. They do the tough stuff all night.

I'm sorry but Roo playing there is a cop out. We play our best football when he is at CHF either kicking goals or setting them up.

I can't remember what we won by but if anyone was happy with that game they are kidding themselves. You need to kick at least 15 goals a week to be competitive in this comp. 10 goals whouldn't win u a game in A section Amatuers

I've felt that Roo's influence on games has been pretty ordinary under Lyon.

Particularly this year. The way the ball comes in, doesn't suit his style.

I think also that those who think he's in the same class as Pavlich, Brown etc. are wrong.

He's not a great one on one player, and not a great contested pack mark. Playing him in that type of role isn't good for him, or for us.

Over his career, he's dominated by getting a yard on his man. When you bring the ball in as slowly as we do and into the pockets like we do, it's very difficult to find that yard of space.

Roo isn't really a true, physical CHF. He's really a HFF. It's just that he's so good at it, he's basically fooled everyone into thinking he's a Brown/Pavlich type player. I don't think he is.

Everyone would have to agree that with Roo in the F50, we are incredibly predictable.

The best example of his value as a 'utility', was his goal in the last quarter.
The second best example was his charging back into a pack to take a strong grab on the flank on our HB line in the last quarter.
The 3rd best example was him taking a mark on the lead and kicking a goal in the first quarter.

He's having an influence in every facet of the game. I actually think he's wasted in our F50 with the way we're currently playing.

Certainly, if our midfield is well on top and moving the ball well then he can move forward to really drill the opposition - but to have a midfielder who can kick goals, never be outmarked around the ground and run all day has to be the recruit of the year for us.

[NoMore]

good on him he kicked 3. Against the worst side in the competition. while playing on no one. Must have been a tough night for him.

If he was Best On people obviously didn't watch Luke Ball or Robert Harvey. These 2 guys get hammered but u don't see them running round behind the ball sneaking forward. They do the tough stuff all night.

I'm sorry but Roo playing there is a cop out. We play our best football when he is at CHF either kicking goals or setting them up.

I can't remember what we won by but if anyone was happy with that game they are kidding themselves. You need to kick at least 15 goals a week to be competitive in this comp. 10 goals whouldn't win u a game in A section Amatuers

I've felt that Roo's influence on games has been pretty ordinary under Lyon.

Particularly this year. The way the ball comes in, doesn't suit his style.

I think also that those who think he's in the same class as Pavlich, Brown etc. are wrong.

He's not a great one on one player, and not a great contested pack mark. Playing him in that type of role isn't good for him, or for us.

Over his career, he's dominated by getting a yard on his man. When you bring the ball in as slowly as we do and into the pockets like we do, it's very difficult to find that yard of space.

Roo isn't really a true, physical CHF. He's really a HFF. It's just that he's so good at it, he's basically fooled everyone into thinking he's a Brown/Pavlich type player. I don't think he is.

Everyone would have to agree that with Roo in the F50, we are incredibly predictable.

The best example of his value as a 'utility', was his goal in the last quarter.
The second best example was his charging back into a pack to take a strong grab on the flank on our HB line in the last quarter.
The 3rd best example was him taking a mark on the lead and kicking a goal in the first quarter.

He's having an influence in every facet of the game. I actually think he's wasted in our F50 with the way we're currently playing.

Certainly, if our midfield is well on top and moving the ball well then he can move forward to really drill the opposition - but to have a midfielder who can kick goals, never be outmarked around the ground and run all day has to be the recruit of the year for us.

Yes but now who kicks our goals. Roo was the best CHF in the comp playing his way. He is also an amazing FF.

In my opinion we are robbing Peter to Pay Paul just to justify RL's game plan

[yipper]

good on him he kicked 3. Against the worst side in the competition. while playing on no one. Must have been a tough night for him.

If he was Best On people obviously didn't watch Luke Ball or Robert Harvey. These 2 guys get hammered but u don't see them running round behind the ball sneaking forward. They do the tough stuff all night.

I'm sorry but Roo playing there is a cop out. We play our best football when he is at CHF either kicking goals or setting them up.

I can't remember what we won by but if anyone was happy with that game they are kidding themselves. You need to kick at least 15 goals a week to be competitive in this comp. 10 goals whouldn't win u a game in A section Amatuers

I've felt that Roo's influence on games has been pretty ordinary under Lyon.

Particularly this year. The way the ball comes in, doesn't suit his style.

I think also that those who think he's in the same class as Pavlich, Brown etc. are wrong.

He's not a great one on one player, and not a great contested pack mark. Playing him in that type of role isn't good for him, or for us.

Over his career, he's dominated by getting a yard on his man. When you bring the ball in as slowly as we do and into the pockets like we do, it's very difficult to find that yard of space.

Roo isn't really a true, physical CHF. He's really a HFF. It's just that he's so good at it, he's basically fooled everyone into thinking he's a Brown/Pavlich type player. I don't think he is.

Everyone would have to agree that with Roo in the F50, we are incredibly predictable.

The best example of his value as a 'utility', was his goal in the last quarter.
The second best example was his charging back into a pack to take a strong grab on the flank on our HB line in the last quarter.
The 3rd best example was him taking a mark on the lead and kicking a goal in the first quarter.

He's having an influence in every facet of the game. I actually think he's wasted in our F50 with the way we're currently playing.

Certainly, if our midfield is well on top and moving the ball well then he can move forward to really drill the opposition - but to have a midfielder who can kick goals, never be outmarked around the ground and run all day has to be the recruit of the year for us.

Yes but now who kicks our goals. Roo was the best CHF in the comp playing his way. He is also an amazing FF.

In my opinion we are robbing Peter to Pay Paul just to justify RL's game plan

Err, the only other coach Roo has had in the AFL also used him in the role he played brilliantly on Friday night!! And as the Fox said - he does that better than most. Very fit aerobically, so you don't tie him down. Let him roam - if he kcks 3 every week on the back of 18 marks - then we will actually start winning some games. We won on Friday because no-one could go with him all night, and our other good players stood up.

[NoMore]

GT mostly played him there at the SCG where CHF is a redundant position.

I'm sorry i disagree with anyone who says this is his best position for helping the St Kilda footy club win a flag.

Where do u find another CHF?

We need him to stand up as a key forward.

It is good for him to run around the ground. It is good for the team when he stands up at CHF and dominates games like he used to.

As sad as it is with the way kosi is going we need 60+ goals out of Roo to be a genuin finals contender.

[yipper]

GT mostly played him there at the SCG where CHF is a redundant position.

I'm sorry i disagree with anyone who says this is his best position for helping the St Kilda footy club win a flag.

Where do u find another CHF?

We need him to stand up as a key forward.

It is good for him to run around the ground. It is good for the team when he stands up at CHF and dominates games like he used to.

As sad as it is with the way kosi is going we need 60+ goals out of Roo to be a genuin finals contender.

And 3 a week playing like he did on Friday (along with 18 marks) will give him - err, let me see now... oh yes around 60 odd goals a year!!

[St_Cave]

I was impressed with the amount of hard running Roo did and I think that he should permanently be playing that roll. One thing the coaching staff needs to address though is a solid forward target on the rebound if Roo isn't there. Numerous times we got the rebound and then didn't have any players in our forward half to kick to and had to revert back to that kicking backwards/sideways cr@p. We just get caught out too many times flooding too far back.

[Armoooo]

Anyone who doesn't think Roo was BOG is kidding themselves on IMO...
That goal in the last few minutes followed by that goal saving mark in the backline showed why he has to be given permission to roam.

Not only did he kick 3 of his own but he also stopped 3 or 4 from the opposition which would make his output a lot better than kicking 5 from FF...

Roo is playing the role he was born to play, now if only Allen, McEvoy, C.Gardiner, Kosi or even Gehrig could find a way to keep our forward line competitive I would be far more optimistic about our team's chances...

[rodgerfox]

Anyone who doesn't think Roo was BOG is kidding themselves on IMO...
That goal in the last few minutes followed by that goal saving mark in the backline showed why he has to be given permission to roam.

Not only did he kick 3 of his own but he also stopped 3 or 4 from the opposition which would make his output a lot better than kicking 5 from FF...

Roo is playing the role he was born to play, now if only Allen, McEvoy, C.Gardiner, Kosi or even Gehrig could find a way to keep our forward line competitive I would be far more optimistic about our team's chances...

As a midfielder, if I saw Roo going into marking contest I'd confidently break for space.
I'd be completely confident of him winning it.

I'm not sure that being confident is in Lyon's game plan, but if it is I would expect to see Ball, Dal, Lenny, Joey etc. getting far more uncontested ball due to Roo roaming.

Therefore, they in theory get more non-pressure disposals, which in theory results in better delivery forward. If the ball enters the F50 well, it doesn't really matter who is in there.

[yipper]

Anyone who doesn't think Roo was BOG is kidding themselves on IMO...
That goal in the last few minutes followed by that goal saving mark in the backline showed why he has to be given permission to roam.

Not only did he kick 3 of his own but he also stopped 3 or 4 from the opposition which would make his output a lot better than kicking 5 from FF...

Roo is playing the role he was born to play, now if only Allen, McEvoy, C.Gardiner, Kosi or even Gehrig could find a way to keep our forward line competitive I would be far more optimistic about our team's chances...

Exactly. It is the ideal role for Roo - we need to find someone to stay up forward. Kosi would be perfect if he could find some form anytime soon. Allen or the Big Mac could also do the job.

[Spinner]

Goddard flying the flag for Luke Ball. After Ball was polaxed, Allen was standing and hesitated to remonstrate. He did, but it appeared he did because he felt he had to. BJ however made a beeline and meant business. Hopefuly doesn't cop a week for attempting to remove the Freo ruckman's scalp, but to be honest it would be worth it. Was great to see.

Agree with everything.....But the above.....That was just pure GOLD!!!

[Corkin Ocean]

[quote="rodgerfox"]

Certainly, if our midfield is well on top and moving the ball well then he can move forward to really drill the opposition - but to have a midfielder who can kick goals, never be outmarked around the ground and run all day has to be the recruit of the year for us.[/quote]

You had better be careful, Rodger, with that sort of description - i.e. "talented attacking midfielder" - next thing we'll know he will be dropped to the Scorps to learn to be defensive and closely man-up.

Seriously, though, I think both lines of thought have merit. Roo, if his fitness can sustain it, looks great running around but then we need other avenues up forward - best options at present may be McEvoy and Allen (combined game tally to date in accordance with our coach's selection policy - 2 - doesn't inspire a lot of confidence!).

[bob__71]

The Fox report...my my Rodger....you have a very high opinion of yourself.

[BAM! (shhhh)]

good on him he kicked 3. Against the worst side in the competition. while playing on no one. Must have been a tough night for him.

If he was Best On people obviously didn't watch Luke Ball or Robert Harvey. These 2 guys get hammered but u don't see them running round behind the ball sneaking forward. They do the tough stuff all night.

I'm sorry but Roo playing there is a cop out. We play our best football when he is at CHF either kicking goals or setting them up.

I can't remember what we won by but if anyone was happy with that game they are kidding themselves. You need to kick at least 15 goals a week to be competitive in this comp. 10 goals whouldn't win u a game in A section Amatuers

Goodness me, what does Reiwoldt have to do to get respect in this place?

That was a sensational game. Reiwoldt covered the entire ground to take 18 Marks (including 4 contested)... he had "no opponent" because nobody could go with him on that kind of endurance running fest. 25 disposals, 3 goals, 18 marks... when the game was in the balance, he came through.

Close game... without ANY of Roo, Harvey, Ball and Goddard, the Saints simply don't win. Throw Hayes in there as well, he may have only played a quarter, but what a quarter it was.

But while all those guys played good games, the one who played a game that only a very few players in the comp would stand a chance of replicating (and we all know who I mean) was Nick Reiwoldt. Absolutely BOG.

It may be frightening to think that we need that kind of performance from those individuals to get across the line... but for now, we may as well just enjoy the performances we got.

[Sloaney]

The Fox Report, I like it............

New around hear, been a StKFC member fo 26 years, The Round 13 win againts Freo is a change of tide for the team, playing for each other as team mates will win many games of football.

Think we are still a danger and can make a great go of it here.

[saintsRrising]

Yep not a bad read.

Like Saintsau66 I disagree on Eddy....I thought he had a marvellous debut and looked very good.



With Roo...we are seeing what a fully fit Roo can do again.

He started the year with one knee injured...and then did the other after the season started.

He is now looking fully fit. He has removed all that mummy like bandaging that he had to wear as well. This is allowing him to run freer and further...and this in turn will help his confidence. IMO you will now see the Roo we love to see irrespective where he actually plays.



I think with Gram there are two reasons for the lift in form:
1/ He was carrying an injury
2/ He is now being used more as a mid than a defender. This suits both his strengths and weakness.

[BakesFan]

Did anyone else see Roo being 'tunnelled' in the goal square in the first quarter? Far more blatant than anything Bolton did to him.

I saw it!! It was disgraceful. I went ballistic... and no replay was shown.