Shane Birss

[Armoooo]

I was wondering what other posters thought about this guy's value to our team.
Personally I rate him and I think he brings a bit of grunt to the side, we have got some of the best outside midfielders in the league such as Dal, Montagna, Fiora, Xavier, Harvey (now), Gram etc. But after Lenny and Ball I think we are a bit lacking for the tough hardnut inside midfielders... I think that Birss could do some great work in this role.
He is very good around the stoppages, he gets plenty of clearances and knows how to lay a tackle.
Ideally I would like to see our midfield look something like this.
Gardiner Hayes Ball
Montagna Dal Gram
with Birss on the bench.
I would like Hayes, Ball and Birss to rotate through the middle as the followers with Gram and Montagna rotating around the ground and bench with players like Schneider, Roo and Gilbert etc. to have a shot on the wings.
With Ball, Hayes, Dal, Montagna, Gilbert, Gram and Birss going through our midfield I think we could average 30 tackles a game just from our midfield.
IMO we looked our best this year when we were applying pressure and causing turnovers.
I would like to see Birss in our 22 and he is about 25 years old so he is just entering that time in his life when most players play their best football...

[Oh When the Saints]

I think he is vastly under-rated.

Terrific at clearances, strong tackler and knows how to find the footy. Was played off the bench in '07 and still managed to rack up a bit of the ball.

Can play a similar role to what AT and Frankie did off the bench for us in '04, and provide some support and experience.

His disposal isn't as bad as many think, and his delivery into the forwardline is generally very good.

If he can get a bit fitter, I think he has a big role to play in 2008 ...

[SaintBot]

Probably the best goalkicking midfielder we have.

Agree he is severly underrated by many. I rate him in our first 22 at the moment. His clearance work and his ability to kick goals on the run from 35+ meters out is very valuable.

[Armoooo]

His disposal isn't as bad as many think, and his delivery into the forwardline is generally very good.

Completely agree, while he is no Dal Santo he is definately no Clinton Jones... And if we put him right in the engine room he really doesn't even need that good disposal, his job should be to get it out of the pack to the likes of Dal, Gram and Monty.

[SaintWodonga]

Saw his match against the crows kicked some vital goals... If David Minson can get get his fitness up and maybe a burst of speed, he could be really good for us.

[dalboy]

Don't think he is in our best 22. His disposal is not a problem IMO..it is more his lack of pace....he moves like a worm. He adds some depth to our list however and am happy to see him get another year.

[Armoooo]

Don't think he is in our best 22. His disposal is not a problem IMO..it is more his lack of pace....he moves like a worm. He adds some depth to our list however and am happy to see him get another year.

Lol, it's pretty funny that I seem to recall everyone bringing up pace when he was being spoken about when we recruited him. He isn't fast but I would say he is fast enough, he can find space but I don't think he has to be super speedy for the role that I have in mind for him.

[Joffa Burns]

Vital midfield depth and nothing more.

Played one very good game for the year (had the premature evaluators on this site raving and singing his praises) and a couple of handy ones.

If he is in our best 22 the top 8 will be difficult for us.

[Oh When the Saints]

Mmm ... disagree.

For example, I think the majority of his games were easily the equivalent of a Powell or Peckett's contribution from a few years back, and we comfortably played finals with those guys in the team.

I would argue that he offers as much as Shannon Byrnes, who played in the Cats' GF team, and more than a Surjan/Logan type from the Power.

[Armoooo]

Mmm ... disagree.

For example, I think the majority of his games were easily the equivalent of a Powell or Peckett's contribution from a few years back, and we comfortably played finals with those guys in the team.

I would argue that he offers as much as Shannon Byrnes, who played in the Cats' GF team, and more than a Surjan/Logan type from the Power.

Yeah I completely agree, I would be more than happy to have him as our weakest midfielder... Not every player has to be a superstar they just need to add something to the team and IMO Birss addresses a couple of our weaknesses, he may not have pace but pace is nowhere near as important is it is made out to be. I would have Birss ahead of the following players in the midfield: X.Clark, Schneider, Fiora, Blake and unless Birss gets a game atleast one of those will get some considerable game time.

[Solar]

Mmm ... disagree.

For example, I think the majority of his games were easily the equivalent of a Powell or Peckett's contribution from a few years back, and we comfortably played finals with those guys in the team.

I would argue that he offers as much as Shannon Byrnes, who played in the Cats' GF team, and more than a Surjan/Logan type from the Power.

Yeah I completely agree, I would be more than happy to have him as our weakest midfielder... Not every player has to be a superstar they just need to add something to the team and IMO Birss addresses a couple of our weaknesses, he may not have pace but pace is nowhere near as important is it is made out to be. I would have Birss ahead of the following players in the midfield: X.Clark, Schneider, Fiora, Blake and unless Birss gets a game atleast one of those will get some considerable game time.

Personally unless armo steps up to be a top 18 player in 2008 birss will be a very important bench player in our midfield rotation, especially with baker out and attard injured. Can see him replacing AT in that hard at it second string midfield player that will replace a haye or ball at an inside midfielder.

Things he needs to work on is his decision making and fitness, could add another 5 posessions a game to his average if he was able to get to more contests. But I could say this to about 10-20 of our top 25 players

[Saints94]

He did a great job on Nathen Foley in round 22 Foley collected 16 disposals while Birss got 18 him self

[saintspremiers]

Vital midfield depth and nothing more.

Played one very good game for the year (had the premature evaluators on this site raving and singing his praises) and a couple of handy ones.

If he is in our best 22 the top 8 will be difficult for us.

hmmm, yep have to agree with you 100% on this JB.

I was perhaps a bit of a PE raving about him after one game.

Good thing is that PE symptoms diminished very quickly a few games later!

[Armoooo]

He did a great job on Nathen Foley in round 22 Foley collected 16 disposals while Birss got 18 him self

He also got like 9 tackles and heaps of clearences aswell.

[cwrcyn]

Yet to convince me.

His Kicking is better than I expected, but he's sometimes a bit slow in his decision making, and his taclkling technique is poor.

Depth player, but a handy one.

[Armoooo]

his taclkling technique is poor.

Really?, from, what I've seen he is a great tackler, I especially remember this one front on tackle he did that flattened his opponent...

[Barney2]

not in best 22.

[Armoooo]

not in best 22.

Thanks for that in depth analysis...

[BAM! (shhhh)]

Posted this in the McQualter thread before I saw this on pg 2...

I don't rate Birss much, but agree that he's handy enough that of the 4 named [Birss, Jones, Ferguson, Gwilt], as of today he's not in danger. My problems with him are his disposal, and his light frame... if he can correct his kicking, i'll firget the light frame as he does have a bit of a nose for the ball, and if he's using the ball well, I'll be happy with him as a player than plays more physically than his body really allows for. He's too light to be a tagger, but I'd worry if he bulked up he'd lose pace.

What I expect and do like of Birss is he raises the bar for the bottom end of the Saints midfield. IMO, it's his play that has ultimately made McQualter expendable (Birss, while certainly leaving something to be desired didn't look out of place playing AFL level), and it's his spot that Jones will be fighting to take in order to maintain himself after '08. The danger to both is that of course Armitage, Howard and any midfield draftees will also be fighting for this spot. Birss becomes the barometer for depth midfielders at St. K.

If he can improve, great. If he plateau's, he's probably safe through '08, but if he can't be surpassed in '09 without significan't improvement there's an issue.

[Dan Warna]

j. Burns summary best fits him.

given his age he may lift a bit more.

[HarveysDeciple]

Handy player.

Good depth option, whilst we should never look for him to start on the ball in our best 18 he is handy to have coming into the side and working off the pine.

Seems to have a bit of Mcgough's ball winning ability, but is slightly quicker, has way better disposal and keeps his composure far more when he has the footy.

[Armoooo]

I would be VERY surprised if CJ ever took his spot, Birss is so far ahead of him it's just not funny and there is only like a 1 year difference.
I would love to see Armo put some pressue on him however.
I think ATM that Birss is a perfect interchange player, he can come on do his job and go back off, he can definately contribute to a flag winning side.

[congorozides]

Jury well and truly out on birss. ask this question in 10 months time from today.

I have my doubts. Slow as treacle. Probably suited to 90's style footy. But then again - Shane O'Bree still gets a game - kind of similar to him.

[Armoooo]

Lol, I just remembered about this old thread...
So what do we think of him so far?
IMO he has been what we hoped he would be and a little bit more, he is usually beating his opponents and scoring a couple of goals as well, IMO he is just outside of our best 22....

[n1ck]

Hasnt been used very well.