WTF

[damienc]

There are many things I do not understand.

Right now one of the biggest is the St Kilda football club.

Seriously WTF.

They say football is a game of two halves.

Never truer words have been spoken.

I don’t know what happened at half time. What was said. What was done. I’d like to know. Clearly it was major. Make that transformative.

There were two different footy teams playing for the same club. Neither bore the slightest resemblance to each other.

If St Kilda was a horse there would be a stewards inquiry, urine swabs taken and testing for performance enhancing drugs.

I have many questions needless to say.

Why?

For starters. Then throw in a how? Then why couldn’t you play like this when we had a chance of making the finals?

So, what conclusions or inferences can be drawn?

Was this a one off freak show or a sign of something good happening? A future to actually be positive about?

So many questions so few answers. If anyone knows I stand ready to be enlightened.

[Sainter_Dad]

I don’t care for the Why or How!

I care only that this becomes the standard

[wally]

UFO landed again

[Scollop]

So, what conclusions or inferences can be drawn?

Was this a one off freak show or a sign of something good happening? A future to actually be positive about?

Personnel has a lot to do with it. We had a fair few injuries and suspensions.

Would be interesting to see how many games we've won when both Hunter Clark and Paddy Dow have played together. They seem to work well as a group with their captain at stoppages.

I just did a check on Clark alone. He's been in for 10 games this year and when he plays we've won 7 out of 10. That's a pretty good win rate.

Jimmy Webster was missing at the start of the year and he's just a very solid contributor. With Webster in the team this year we've won 8 and lost 6.

You're obviously going to get inconsistency with some of our 1st, 2nd and 3rd year players.

I think competition for spots is going to be massive next year and hopefully that drives effort on the training track and performance on game day.

[Killa]

To this side you can add Windhager, Crouch, King, Henry and Phillipou.

Plus who we are developing and who we recruit.

If you look at games played by each player there are gaps starting with Sinclair missing Round 1, a narrow loss to Geelong at Geelong (along with a number of other narrow losses).

Reduce those games lost by players and our position may just be very, very different to where we find ourselves now.

The only players who have not missed a game are Steele, Owens, Marshall, Wilson, Battle and Wilkie so 6 only.

And I agree on Clark, who is Class with a Capital C- plus the much maligned on this site Howard is very, very important.

[Sainter_Dad]

... the much maligned on this site Howard is very, very important.

Yes - a full back is important - imagine how much better our back 6 would be without one who gets rag dolled like Howard did in Geelong's first goal.

[Killa]

And I would add that St Kilda has just one class player with over 200 games experience being Bradley Hill.

Compare that to the sides being seen as contenders.

[Killa]

Here we go again!

NO player is going to win every contest they are in.

Witness Lockett and Riewoldt - for starters.

[meher baba]

There are a range of factors at work here IMO. One of them might be a ingrained reluctance on the part of Lyon to take his foot off the brake whenever the scores are close. His game plan is built around minimising the scores of our opponents, and that's how he rolls and it's no use wanting him to do it any differently. No player in a team coached by Lyon has ever won a Coleman Medal, and that isn't going to change any time soon. But,, when we get a few goals behind in a game, Lyon shifts gears and gives us a sense of how powerful we can (sometimes) be when we go all out on the attack.

Another factor is clearances. We often struggle with clearances early in a game, and then improve as the game goes on. Marshall is a long way from being the best tap ruckman in the game, but he's a very smart player, as is Steele, and between them and the coaching staff they often devise strategies for winning more of the ball as the game goes on.

The other key thing that happened last night - starting in the second quarter, although it only began to hit the scoreboard hard in the third - was a far better effort on the part of the team generally to run hard and create space up the corridor and along the wings. We've long had a bit of a tendency to rely on a few key individuals to do this job, particularly Hill, Wood and Marshall and (a bit further forward) Owens. But we're infinitely more dangerous when we have a herd of players stampeding through these spaces. And last night we did: as we did against the Swans and in our second game against the Bombers and, at times, our first game against the Lions. Our backline is one of the league's most skilled and dynamic with the ball in hand: Sinclair, Battle, Wilkie, Webster and NWM (even though he's a bit out of form at the moment) are all excellent kicks of the ball. For much of this season, they haven't been reliably presented with enough targets in front of them. Last night showed what can happen when they are.

Our team selection last night (some of it forced on us by injuries) gave us a lot more run. Jones, when fully fit, can run all game and also provide a physical presence that is often helpful. Byrnes is also unstoppable, and is gradually becoming a little less error-prone. Wilson was a revelation last night, as was Garcia when he came on. Membrey, Sharman, Stocker, Higgins and Butler (what about that tap he did in the fourth quarter to set up a goal!) also frequently made helpful runs into the middle. Hill and Owens were subdued, but Wood and Marshall were great as always. Even Howard got into the act occasionally.

Many supporters, and even some of the media commentators (eg, David King last night) seem to believe that we need to find one or two "gun midfielders" in order to feature in late September. But how can we hope to snag, or even develop, a Dangerfield or Lachie Neale or De Goey or Cripps, etc, within 5 years: by which time our curreent stars like Wilkie, Marshall, Sinclair and Steele will all be watching us play with a beer. I think we can do quite a lot with what we have on our list right now. Not only the players we had on the ground last night, but also Phillipou, Windhager and perhaps King if we can work out how to use him more effectively than we have done. Perhaps throw in a more mature player or two like Peatling.

But, most importantly, keep that running game going. All the way back to Richo's time, and throughout Ratten's term as coach, we have always looked at our best when we run hard and move the ball quickly. It's a style of game really suited to Marvel Stadium. I'm not saying that Lyon should throw away his defensive approach, but perhaps he should try to mix it up a little more. But he'll feel more confident about not always pulling 15 or more players into our defensive 50 if the players further forward can convince him that they can create space and thereby reduce the risk of the ball being turned over and coming straight back at our backline.

[Scollop]

David King on Foxfooty gave us these 'corridor' stats and talked about the frustration Saints fans might have (that we can play with such dare and excitement). He said the Saints were basically forced into playing that way because of the scoreboard.

They didn't exactly smash us in the first half. We weren't far off with matching them in contested ball and clearances and inside 50's....but we had 40 disposals in the corridor in the first half and that changed dramatically for the second half.

We had 92 disposals in the corridor in the second half. We took every opportunity to look inside.

I was shocked at how good we were in that second half and how quickly we moved the footy and how well we played through the corridor.

David King said that's not the way the Saints normally play. He reckons we "rarely play with the brakes off". Meaning dare and express ball movement through the corridor is not happening often enough.

Jason Dunstall asked; Whose fault is it?
King said; "It has to be Ross's decision to play the way they (normally) play. There's no one more responsible than the senior coach."

King asked Dunstall if he agreed with that. Dunstall referenced the coaches as a group and sat on the fence. Dunstall says he wasn't sure whether it was the players or the 'coaching panels' fault.

[meher baba]

And I would add that St Kilda has just one class player with over 200 games experience being Bradley Hill.

Compare that to the sides being seen as contenders.

And, consistent with the overly long post I have just put up, I'd actually like to see Hill move on. Like King up forward, we have become too reliant on kicking the ball to him when they believe he's available. It's becoming increasingly risky with Hill. He's never been great overhead, he's getting slower each season and increasingly inclined to fumble ground balls and his disposal by hand or foot is like the little girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead.

He's been a terrific player for many years, but - if we had all of our current list fit and available - I'm not certain that I'd have him in our top 22. Sacrilege I know, but there it is.

[Scollop]

To this side you can add Windhager, Crouch, King, Henry and Phillipou.

I'd scratch Crouch from that list. Unless he gets himself a bionic knee.

[meher baba]

David King said that's not the way the Saints normally play. He reckons we "rarely play with the brakes off". Meaning dare and express ball movement through the corridor is not happening often enough.

Jason Dunstall asked; Whose fault is it?
King said; "It has to be Ross's decision to play the way they (normally) play. There's no one more responsible than the senior coach."

King asked Dunstall if he agreed with that. Dunstall referenced the coaches as a group and sat on the fence. Dunstall says he wasn't sure whether it was the players or the 'coaching panels' fault.

As I said in my overly long post above, it's nobody's "fault." A lot of Ross's coaching strategy is about ensuring that opposition teams don't break us apart with ball in hand. We saw what that looked like during the second half of 2022, and it's horrible. Turnovers are the biggest risk, followed by opposition attacks out of stoppages. We are a way short of being the best clearance team in the comp. So, when we are bringing the ball out of defence, we need to find targets. Otherwise, Ross will keep pulling 15 or more back into our defensive 50 time and time again.

So what we need are players running into space upfield. And we haven't had enough of them doing it consistently enough for most of the season. A lot of fans constantly complain about players not trying hard enough, and it's all BS. Most players work their rings off every game. But, for the team to go really well, you need the right combination of players with the right capabilities to be in the right form. Last night we had players stampeding all over the corridor and on both wings. A fully fit Zac Jones, an improved Byrnes, Wilson playing out of his skin (he obviously did need a rest), Membrey back to his best, etc. made a huge difference and it looked fantastic.

If the players can keep that up, then Ross will perhaps stop pulling quite so many players back into the defensive 50 and we will see more football like we saw last night. A virtuous circle if you like. I loved it.

[perfectionist]

To this side you can add Windhager, Crouch, King, Henry and Phillipou.

I'd scratch Crouch from that list. Unless he gets himself a bionic knee.

And King, unless he finds a way to chase and put defensive pressure on his opponent when he hasn't got the ball. Our best wins have been without him.

[Scollop]

Hill is the new Hannebery. Not because he's going to miss the next 80% of games due to soft tissue injuries... but because he's a great leader who will be invaluable on the training track

And of course he's got a myriad of excuses for his recent form.

His wife just had a baby

He's got a crook back

He's got ...a full tummy

[meher baba]

To this side you can add Windhager, Crouch, King, Henry and Phillipou.

I'd scratch Crouch from that list. Unless he gets himself a bionic knee.

I forgot about Henry in my earlier posts. Is our list going into next season really going to be as bad as many think?

I agree that Crouch looks gone, although I believe we might be contractually obliged to keep him on the list for one more year?

It's a pity: he's a good player who would be a helpful addition to our current team.

[meher baba]

And of course he's got a myriad of excuses for his recent form.

His wife just had a baby

He's got a crook back

He's got ...a full tummy

Overly harsh. He give 200% every game, but his style of play has always been based on his pace, his extraordinary stamina and his excellent reflexes. Not surprisingly, at the age of 31, these are just starting to come slightly off the boil.

[Scollop]

Clark, Dow, Steel is better than any combo you want to come up with that includes Crouch in 2025.

Firstly because I believe both Dow and Clark will improve from this point on, and secondly because I think the only way we get them to improve is to keep playing them together as a unit. Think long term ffs... not just for the next 12 months

Crouch would only be a good addition if he could replicate his best form from last year and do it for the next 5 years.

We know that is virtually impossible. We are not ready to challenge for the premiership in 2025 imo

[The Fireman]

RTB


Fanboy

[Scollop]

RTB


Fanboy

Really...you don't say

I'll be a fanboy too if he leaves this club in a better state than he did last time round. If he provides a legacy and we go on to be a relevant club... Or...if he hangs around and we turn into a powerhouse...Then I'll definitely be a fanboy

C'mon Ross. Firey has faith in you

[seano1]

It’s also in large to kicks in the second half getting to their intended targets.
And Cats thought they had it in the bag and maybe just playing like they were trying to save themselves for finals

[The Fireman]

RTB


Fanboy

Really...you don't say

I'll be a fanboy too if he leaves this club in a better state than he did last time round. If he provides a legacy and we go on to be a relevant club... Or...if he hangs around and we turn into a powerhouse...Then I'll definitely be a fanboy

C'mon Ross. Firey has faith in you

cmon scollop I’ll sign ya up

[Sainter_Dad]

Here we go again!

NO player is going to win every contest they are in.

Witness Lockett and Riewoldt - for starters.

Oh - I totally agree - and I say the same for King - imagine how good if our players were not being rag dolled - I am not sure that Howard is the answer - but with the other 5 - this is a weak link. At this time of the year - if you are not looking for an upgrade - you are going backwards.

PS - Howard does not just have the occasional brain fade - witness Lockett and Riewoldt - he has a few too many - also see Winx

[Moods]

Actually if you watch Ross’s presser after the game it’s fairly enlightening.

In a nutshell, they analyse all the stats and work out what we’re doing well and where we’re getting beaten. He said our run/carry general field game was excellent in 2nd quarter but we were getting smashed from centre bounce clearances and stoppages near goal. Fix that up and we’re in the game. They focussed on that at halftime and wholah

[Killa]

Yes, maybe some should listen to the Senior Coach.

No 2 weeks are the same, hence the competition we see in 2024 where how do you pick winners?

Simply, all sides prepare for the OPPOSITION.

And all opposition (including St Kilda) respond, or attempt to respond.

In terms of the opinions attributed to Lyon (by an obviously anti Lyon cohort I would suggest), they should really listen to what the Lyon has to say (which includes the reason we Drafted Wilson).

And in regards the likes of King, Howard et al who cop flack on this Forum, these players are vital to where St Kilda is at and where it is on trajectory to go because they significantly improve the side including its structure (so spine).

That they have missed so many games this season is to our detriment.

As with ALL sides there are deficiencies and this is the reason we are seeing the results we are seeing in 2024 where there is no clear premiership favorite.