King unbalances the team?

[WellardSaint]

Paying King a huge amount of money when his output is so sparse and sketchy
Will unbalance the team.
It might cause friction and simmering discontent when other players can't get as much as they believe they're worth, as King has sucked most of the $$$

Think back to RTB's earlier stint with us.

Rumours said half of the $$ was paid to maybe 10 players.

I strongly believe the club would be better off without King.

Why have so much money gifted to a guy with 'potential' who has only shown flashes of what he might be.

Who was that Bulldog? Tom Boyd? They thought he'd be the big saviour.

Let another club deal with King, let them have the headache.

Let's spend the limited cap on getting an even spread of talent

[SteeleSaints]

Paying King a huge amount of money when his output is so sparse and sketchy
Will unbalance the team.
It might cause friction and simmering discontent when other players can't get as much as they believe they're worth, as King has sucked most of the $$$
Think back to RTB's earlier stint with us.
Rumours said half of the $$ was paid to maybe 10 players.
I strongly believe the club would be better off without King.
Why have so much money gifted to a guy with 'potential' who has only shown flashes of what he might be.
Who was that Bulldog? Tom Boyd? They thought he'd be the big saviour.
Let another club deal with King, let them have the headache.
Let's spend the limited cap on getting an even spread of talent

Totally agree, he is still being paid on potential and is over rated. We would be far better spending our money on elite mids or other positions if we can attract them. As St Kilda supporters we fall into the trap of hero worshipping full forwards because of Locketts achievements. But Lockett never played in a winning GF team, teams are much better served having serviceable tall forwards and spreading the load across the entire zone.

I was watching Ben King on the weekend and he suffers from the exact same issues as Max. The ball had fallen 10 or 15 minutes away and Ben just stood and watched other players fight for the ball, he didnt even bother to walk over and be an option. That stuff does my head in, you can imagine what it does for his team mates when they are busting their arses to keep the ball inside 50.

Caminiti, Sharman and Keeler should be our tall forward into the future. If Hayes can get his body right and stay on the track he can add value as well. We are most likely going to lose Battle at seasons end and will get another 1st pick, I would much rather trade out King and get two early first rounders and build a more competitive midfield and forward line.

[Otiman]

The days of a 'spearhead' forward are over. Team defenses are always easily able to counteract an individual forward. In fact, having a known forward target makes it much easier on them.

It's when you have multiple options all presenting equally, in a combined effort to spread defense and open up space that you'll succeed.

The bonus is when you've got players who can win more contests than they lose. It's why guys like Michito are playing up forward. It's also why Higgins is a liability at times.

There's still a belief, probably also in the playing group, and maybe even within King himself, that the old days are still possible.

[Vortex]

Over recent years how many times has a fan bemoaned the BOMB into our forward line and blamed our midfield because a goal wasn't created.

I enjoyed watching Nas demand a forward lead up to him and the forward honour the demand and then watch Nas deliver the ball to the forward for an F50 mark and shot on goal.

It is a sight to behold.

Chicken or Egg ?

If the goal is converted from that passage of play, how should credit be apportioned!

Trading him is crazy talk, training him to add an extra trick to his bag is the solution, is it spending time in the ruck when our forward line is stagnant or is just as simple as getting him to move around more, lead from the front and not the rear of packs, sacrifice his game even to bring the other forwards into the game.

[Life Long Saint]

Our problems start and end in the middle. Have done for many years...Probably since we off-loaded Dal and BJ.

We need a clearance player or two and then some class on the outside to deliver the footy inside 50.

King has played injured for two seasons now. He is quality. We've seen it and we know what he can deliver. His ability to turn games or take them away from the opposition in the blink of an eye is astonishing.

You do not trade a player like King.
We probably need to look for other options when going inside. The easy thing to do is bomb it to King and then blame him for not leading or taking the mark. We look more functional in the forward because we are more unpredictable. It was a strength of the Bulldogs when they lacked key forwards. Then they got Hall and became too predictable. Ideally, we need another genuine leading/marking option to play up there so we don't always bomb it to King.

[Devilhead]

Fun to debate it but .... King isn't going to be traded

Juat wasting your time

[Sanctorum]

I've previously declared that Max King should never be traded and that any number of teams would like to have him at full forward.

But watching Tim Membrey, Cooper Sharman and Michito Owens taking strong grabs up forward, plus the likes of Charlie Curnow, Jesse Hogan and Aaron Cadman do likewise and contributing significantly to their team's attack on goal has set me thinking that perhaps we don't really need a 202 cm beanpole like King to win games.

The point is that none of the players mentioned above are more than 197 cm - it's more their ability to lead and find space to draw a pass from upfield, mark and kick a goal. What I'm getting at is that it's far more important to possess those skills of mobility than to simply rely on being able to reach above the heads of opposing defenders.

As has been mentioned, Max's twin brother Ben at the Suns also seems disinclined to shrug off his opponent, run at breakneck speed to lead into spoace and present a target to the advancing mids. All of the above do that really well!

That said, there's no way St Kilda will part ways with Max, but surely Ross Lyon (as well as Damien Hardwick) will be working really hard in the off-season to figure out ways to get the King twins to do much much better.....

[WellardSaint]

My issue is with the money paid to the telegraph pole, based on 'potential'

Like Hannebery and Hill.
We are paying OVERS and the club thinks he wull be the next Rooey.
What number does he wear?

[Yorkeys]

He does unbalance the side: he skews the profile towards absolute class.

[B.M]

Yeah

A 202cm power forward unbalances the team!

King played against Richmond

He kicks 6+ on that Gumby number 46

A couple of soft wins vs WC and Richmond

Essendon are playing horrible
Sydney were playing horrible

Midfield not getting flogged

There are many machinations to a game of footy - not one player

[B.M]

Caminiti was at times uncompetitive in the air

Getting out marked easily by Balta

He needs to compete and at worse bring the ball to ground

[WellardSaint]

Yeah

A 202cm power forward unbalances the team!

King played against Richmond

He kicks 6+ on that Gumby number 46

A couple of soft wins vs WC and Richmond

Essendon are playing horrible
Sydney were playing horrible

Midfield not getting flogged

There are many machinations to a game of footy - not one player

The wins against WCE, Sydney, Bombers showed how the fwd line functions without the Great White Hope.
Everyone worked well together for a change.

Unbalanced might be the wrong word- 'unsettles' maybe, in terms of the OVERPAYING based on WHAT COULD BE rather than established performance.

Other players missing out on $$ as Winx is getting it all

[B.M]

Do you know what King gets paid?

[samuraisaint]

Paying King a huge amount of money when his output is so sparse and sketchy
Will unbalance the team.
It might cause friction and simmering discontent when other players can't get as much as they believe they're worth, as King has sucked most of the $$$

Think back to RTB's earlier stint with us.

Rumours said half of the $$ was paid to maybe 10 players.

I strongly believe the club would be better off without King.

Why have so much money gifted to a guy with 'potential' who has only shown flashes of what he might be.

Who was that Bulldog? Tom Boyd? They thought he'd be the big saviour.

Let another club deal with King, let them have the headache.

Let's spend the limited cap on getting an even spread of talent

He was their Saviour - without Boyd Bulldogs don't win the 2016 Grand Final. Apart from 2021 they haven't looked like it since, and 2016 was only their first Grand Final appearance in 55 years!
Without King we won't win a flag.
Gotta be realistic. The club have got to get a game plan going where we can exploit King's obvious talents.
A mid like Harvey or a winger like Nicky Winmar. Have someone who can kick to him like those guys, and you'd see him explode. An A Grade midfielder, that's what we need.

[Otiman]

Can't imagine King's next contract will be lucrative other than the length.

[repta]

Absolutely unbalanced the team.
Therefore it is up to the coaches to right the ship.

Power forwards days are not over. Jeremy Cameron, Hogan, Hawkins, Curnow, Tex etc. These players have been influential in the last few years. They are a focus not the be all and end all.
However the word is POWER forward. We have a 'wet lettuce leaf' forward. The telephone pole that wavers in a stiff breeze.
The King brothers are very one dimensional. Full forward or bust. No forward pressure.

If we can get a good ruckman. Quality ruckman I would put Rowan forward. Then King position would be questionable.

Caminiti.. OK 3rd forward
Sharman. Maybe a 2nd - 3rd forward
Both aren't good enough for number 1.
Hayes is too injury prone. Can't be relied on.

[SaintWiki]

Why not sack everyone and be done with it. He was going really well in his earlier games and surely the coaching staff can fit him in - as long as the rest of the squad don't continue to 'bomb' it too him, but instead give him a chance as we are now seeing more of lately.

[samoht]

Our recruiters would/should be making us "wince" now thinking back to all the "Winx this, Winx that" hype.

He's an okay, injury-prone forward ... I hope he's being paid accordingly, and that we're mindful of leaving enough salary space to retain important targeted players like Battle, etc...

[Otiman]

Caminiti was recruited after Cadman, who has only just had 1 breakout game.

Not saying he will be a Cadman but if he keeps improving could be better than Max.

[samoht]

As tony 74 posted, Max King could be the player that might "win us the grand final" (if he's not injured, and if we get there) .... but for us to make it into the GF we need to retain solid and important players like Battle, and to add an extra couple of topline midfielders .... hopefully the Winx hype hasn't inflated Max's pay packet and shrunk our salary head space.

[Vortex]

Max's biggest challenge is his mindset, it's fragile.

Injuries have possibly had the biggest impact in that regard however he has also shown he can throw the towel in if things aren't going his way, maybe that is also related to a lack of confidence in his body and/or fear of re injury.

Is that why he doesn’t lead to be first to the ball or hangs out the back of packs looking to jump from behind? Is he self preserving with that style of play?

Interesting Lyon's recent comments on Max when he confirmed his season was done, something along the line of needing to get away from the club and get his mind right?

Kind of suggested he was on mental health leave more than needing time to rehabilitate his knee.

Either way we need Max to find something and live up to his potential because we need to be accumulating talent...not losing it.

[Scollop]

Interesting Lyon's recent comments on Max when he confirmed his season was done, something along the line of needing to get away from the club and get his mind right?

Dane Swan, Dustin Martin and a few of their close friends (including Jordan De Goey) used to go to Las Vegas at the end of every year to unwind and get away from it all.

I recommend Max gets one of those cool mohawk type haircuts and gets a few tattoos and goes to Vegas. Jost go crazy for 4 weeks. It'd be like reverse rehab for nerds

[magnifisaint]

He's been playing injured the last 2 years. When he gets his body right will tear the competition apart. You just don't get rid of a power forward like that unless you get 2 top 5 picks for him. How long did it take Cameron or Hawkins to hit their straps?

[samoht]

I get it, we all get invested in our players, but at some point it unfortunately starts to become a ROI exercise (return on investment).
Nothing personal, that's just the cold, hard business side of things.

Ironically, roi is French for king.

(We're probably not quite at that point, yet).

[spert]

I do remember when King started playing FF a few years back, that Membrey seemed to lose some of the effectiveness in his game, or whatever you like to call it. Now Tim is looking pretty good again in the forward half, moving around more with our current forward structure.