Latest scuttle butt…

[Teflon]

From Stav BF: makes a lot of sense….has credits in bank..

*****

There will not be a new offer to Battle. I told you all at the start of the season. We have a value for Battle in terms of salary cap and we have a value for Battle in terms of return on the market.

We are currently at our salary limit. He has a 6 year offer from us. Unfortunately a mixture of poor form and big offers look him leaving is the most likely option.

The situation as it stands has us of the belief it’s a first round compo - and that would exceed our external value (There isn’t a poster on here that wouldn’t think it’s good list management if you could nab a top 5 pick for Battle). That doesn’t mean we are happy he leaves (likely not guaranteed) just that the outcome is acceptable.

Feel like one of Ross or Membrey goes. Looking like Tim.

They are keen to see how much value Howard can recover for the rest of the year. Similar to Battle. Thing with key backs is that clubs are willing to offer overs on salary for free ones. Keep an eye on a few of Adelaide’s tall backs as a potential replacement.

No free agent this year as it stands. They are looking at older players on the fringes they can get for cheap for a year or 2 or 3 that don’t hinder the cap space. Doggies have one or two we like.

Expect a really decent turnover at years end. More focus on youth again.

Hypothetically if you have 2 top 5 picks in this particular draft. You are laughing. Draper and Jagga Smith?

We are also keen on a late first. Think Hotton could fall into that range.

I’ll also leave you with this. North Melbourne desperately wants Trainor. They are willing to trade back from pick 1 to land this kid. We are aware of this as long as it doesn’t cost first rounders.

Max Hall. No idea who he was the other week. But SOS and Dalrymple think he could be top 5 in the Liston trophy if it was happening today. Thats not saying he even makes it at the level. But they like some of the intangibles he has and is a different mix to our current listed players.

Hope you are all well. Footy is s*** when your side sucks (again!) but this isn’t full rebuild. There is a few things coming to light now that the blowtorch is applied that needs to be corrected. It will be.

[saintsRrising]

It only makes sense IF he generates Band 1 Compo, and that is not at all certain. If not, we gain a pick that may or may not be as good as Battle and who will be raw.

Whomever Battle plays for you know he will play very well for many years.

There is a huge assumption that Battle will go only tilla club that offers a huge contact. He may go for less that he believes is a better fit for him (Finals, marquee games etc...).

Plenty of FA's have gone to clubs not offering a the best deal.

[WellardSaint]

Confused.
We have a big war chest but are currently at our cap limit?

And as an outsider, I wouldn't say Battle is having poor form.
Sure, he's not looking as composed as normal, but neither are
Owens
Pou
Wilkie
Sincs
NAS
Skunk
Butler
Higgo
Caminiti
Sharman
Byrnes

[nostalgicsaint]

It only makes sense IF he generates Band 1 Compo, and that is not at all certain. If not, we gain a pick that may or may not be as good as Battle and who will be raw.

Whomever Battle plays for you know he will play very well for many years.

There is a huge assumption that Battle will go only tilla club that offers a huge contact. He may go for less that he believes is a better fit for him (Finals, marquee games etc...).

Plenty of FA's have gone to clubs not offering a the best deal.

Seems he isn't desperate to leave but is going to make the right call for his (young) family. Can't blame him, you only have one career. 6 years on very good coin is a good offer but if you can get more go for it.

This narrative that he is going to leave for less money is a classic saintsational.net story. No chance of that happening.

[nostalgicsaint]

Confused.
We have a big war chest but are currently at our cap limit?

And as an outsider, I wouldn't say Battle is having poor form.
Sure, he's not looking as composed as normal, but neither are
Owens
Pou
Wilkie
Sincs
NAS
Skunk
Butler
Higgo
Caminiti
Sharman
Byrnes

Limit of what we value him at, not our salary cap.

Prudent management. You set an upper bound on your negotiations. This sort of approach is exactly what Geelong have done for years- don't pay overs.

[Rubyjo]

Off to the Hawks on a very good deal.

[mad saint guy]

Worked out brilliantly for us with BJ, Dal and McEvoy. Looking forward to replacing a consistent top 10 B&F player with the next Tom Lee.

[nostalgicsaint]

Worked out brilliantly for us with BJ, Dal and McEvoy. Looking forward to replacing a consistent top 10 B&F player with the next Tom Lee.

I love Battle but to put him in the same category as the 3 above is ridiculous.

Also this is about free agency which wasnt really a thing. We don't want to lose him, just not to over pay to keep him.

[saintsRrising]

This narrative that he is going to leave for less money is a classic saintsational.net story. No chance of that happening.

I think you misunderstood me. I did not mean less money than St Kilda, but he may not take the biggest offer from another club.

ie North are evidently the highest bidders, then Hawks. Other clubs like Pies and Dees interested, but would offer less than those two clubs.

Battle most likely would not join North.

If Battles does not go for the larger offers, then we are unlikely to get Band 1 Compo.


Good FA's mainly go to the bigger clubs in the finals window and in doing so do not take the biggest offer. ie Lynch to Tigers.


Saints have tried offering huge contracts to gun FA's and we have not got the one. ie DeGoey.

Closest we have gained so far is Crouch who was not elite.

[meher baba]

I very much doubt that the club has drawn a hard line in the sand at this early stage. Battle’s management has put to the club an amount for which he would stay, and at this stage it’s too much.

If Hawthorn or anyone else is prepared to offer an insane amount, well so be it. I’d be surprised if they do. Battle is a skilled player, but not a team-defining one. Apart from anything else, he’s too short to build your backline around. Clubs that pay over the odds for players who aren’t superstars pur themselves in a difficult position the negotiations with other players.

[nostalgicsaint]

This narrative that he is going to leave for less money is a classic saintsational.net story. No chance of that happening.

I think you misunderstood me. I did not mean less money than St Kilda, but he may not take the biggest offer from another club.

ie North are evidently the highest bidders, then Hawks. Other clubs like Pies and Dees interested, but would offer less than those two clubs.

Battle most likely would not join North.

If Battles does not go for the larger offers, then we are unlikely to get Band 1 Compo.


Good FA's mainly go to the bigger clubs in the finals window and in doing so do not take the biggest offer. ie Lynch to Tigers.


Saints have tried offering huge contracts to gun FA's and we have not got the one. ie DeGoey.

Closest we have gained so far is Crouch who was not elite.

Yep I did. Thanks.

[Banger9798]

He is only 26 and almost never loses a contest, fit strong, courageous and a smart player....we should retain him if possible.
Only band 1 would be any kind of compensation for losing a player of his quality

[SydneySainter]

Worked out brilliantly for us with BJ, Dal and McEvoy. Looking forward to replacing a consistent top 10 B&F player with the next Tom Lee.

I love Battle but to put him in the same category as the 3 above is ridiculous.

Also this is about free agency which wasnt really a thing. We don't want to lose him, just not to over pay to keep him.

If we couldn’t get those right with that so-called genius Pelchan, what on earth makes us confident we’ll replace Battle for an equally (if not better) player.

Also, aren’t we in the market to throw bags of money at a star FA. How are we at cap limit with our list???

At a time where we have a dire lack of quality talls, to say that our offer is non-negotiable and simple let him walk is just poor management, yet again!

[nostalgicsaint]

Worked out brilliantly for us with BJ, Dal and McEvoy. Looking forward to replacing a consistent top 10 B&F player with the next Tom Lee.

I love Battle but to put him in the same category as the 3 above is ridiculous.

Also this is about free agency which wasnt really a thing. We don't want to lose him, just not to over pay to keep him.

If we couldn’t get those right with that so-called genius Pelchan, what on earth makes us confident we’ll replace Battle for an equally (if not better) player.

Also, aren’t we in the market to throw bags of money at a star FA. How are we at cap limit with our list???

At a time where we have a dire lack of quality talls, to say that our offer is non-negotiable and simple let him walk is just poor management, yet again!

No one has said that is what has been expressed to him.

1 + 1 != 4

[shrodes]

Unless the rules have changed, the bands are as follows

The bands are as follows:

- Top five per cent = first-round pick

- Top 15 per cent = end-of-first-round pick

- Top 30 per cent = second-round pick

- Top 50 per cent = end-of-second-round pick

- Top 70 per cent = third-round pick

- Below that = no pick

I would be EXTREMELY surrpised if a team pays Battle to be in the top 5%. The OP about us getting a top 5 pick is fanciful at best. More likely we get an end of first round draft pick.

Whether you think we could do better with such a pick over retaining Battle is a matter of opinion (and he would still have to accept an offer from us - he is unrestricted FA meaning we can't match and force him to stay)

Personally I think he is more valuable than an end of first round pick, even in a rebuilding side. 26 in September, and if we think we are seriously pushing for finals in 2 years time I think we want him there as part of that side as a 27/28 year old in prime.

[The_Dud]

Would be stupid to let Battle go claiming we “don’t have the money”

Who are we paying??

How much is Howard on? Ship him off even if you have to absorb some of his wage and then give the balance to Battle!

[cwrcyn]

Consistent, dependable key defenders are like gold.

To let one go who has 6 years of football left in him would be madness

[saynta]

Consistent, dependable key defenders are like gold.

To let one go who has 6 years of football left in him would be madness

Yep.

[terry smith rules]

Not sure who Stav is or where he gets his “knowledge” , but seems like a complete word salad to me.

He talks about how we are going to turnover the list and go for young players, in another sentence talks about topping up with some aging b listers from the Dogs (shudder to think who that could be)

Strikes me this bloke is straight from the Coodabeens, talking to his cabbie who had his hair cut by the cousin of a former flat mate of (insert minor AFL player here)

[St Dave]

Would be stupid to let Battle go claiming we “don’t have the money”

Who are we paying??

How much is Howard on? Ship him off even if you have to absorb some of his wage and then give the balance to Battle!

I don't think it is that we don't have the money in our full budget (we allegedly have a massive war chest), we just don't have the money in our second/third tall back allocation compared to what others are offering. You can overpay for stars, but you don't break your wage structure for 'good enough' players. Especially in a Ross team where the defensive structure does more hard work than individual players.

Personally, if we get band one compo (very unlikely) we take that and don't bring any attention to it. This might also be what the club expects which is why we are playing the kids (not tanking) a bit more that we would otherwise.

Band two compo is probably ok too given we have Cordy and Arie waiting in the wings, but also depends on the quality of late first round prospects.

[Otiman]

Worth a discussion but I don't hold much credibility to rumours from Bigfooty.

As always there will be some truth behind it, but it could just be our bargaining tactics being broadcast to assist the deal or tempt other clubs into offers.

[Brunswicksainter]

I hope we don’t pick Jagga Smith, his stats at in the Coates league jump of the page, but go have a look at the kid. He’s 67kg and 180cm, isn’t the type of clearance dominate midfielder we need and personally I think he will struggle at AFL level.

[The G Train Legacy]

I very much doubt that the club has drawn a hard line in the sand at this early stage. Battle’s management has put to the club an amount for which he would stay, and at this stage it’s too much.

If Hawthorn or anyone else is prepared to offer an insane amount, well so be it. I’d be surprised if they do. Battle is a skilled player, but not a team-defining one. Apart from anything else, he’s too short to build your backline around. Clubs that pay over the odds for players who aren’t superstars pur themselves in a difficult position the negotiations with other players.

I used to be in the negotiation game (industrial relations), it appears to me that Battle is holding out for a better offer from the Club and the Club is currently sticking to its "best offer", to not appear desperate and willing to pay anything. Its probably to early in negotiations to actually be the Club's final offer.
First round picks are great, but you want to be careful about letting a good player of a good age go. Battle is currently one of our best and a vital part of our back 6. You'd want to be sure Schoenmakers or Keeler are likely to be as good. Still, you don't want to be pushed into paying overs, as we did with such champions as Billings, Gresham and Acres.
Battle is far better than those three, but he's worth what his worth. Difficult decision for the Club and they need to be certain of what they want and need.

[Teflon]

I very much doubt that the club has drawn a hard line in the sand at this early stage. Battle’s management has put to the club an amount for which he would stay, and at this stage it’s too much.

If Hawthorn or anyone else is prepared to offer an insane amount, well so be it. I’d be surprised if they do. Battle is a skilled player, but not a team-defining one. Apart from anything else, he’s too short to build your backline around. Clubs that pay over the odds for players who aren’t superstars pur themselves in a difficult position the negotiations with other players.

I used to be in the negotiation game (industrial relations), it appears to me that Battle is holding out for a better offer from the Club and the Club is currently sticking to its "best offer", to not appear desperate and willing to pay anything. Its probably to early in negotiations to actually be the Club's final offer.
First round picks are great, but you want to be careful about letting a good player of a good age go. Battle is currently one of our best and a vital part of our back 6. You'd want to be sure Schoenmakers or Keeler are likely to be as good. Still, you don't want to be pushed into paying overs, as we did with such champions as Billings, Gresham and Acres.
Battle is far better than those three, but he's worth what his worth. Difficult decision for the Club and they need to be certain of what they want and need.

Correct
The club have wisely said here’s what he’s worth internally…here’s what overs look like externally IF sone club (plenty desperate for solid back man) pay overs (hence why we’ve put a v good 6 year deal in front of him!!) then that’s ok
I love Battle but let’s be clinical:
1. Is he replaceable in 1-2 years with what we have in twos??(Schoenmakers??)
2. IF he’s offered anything near McKay level deal/money …does that enable us to fix a midfield VERY QUICKLY that we all know is holding us back ?????

You gotta give to get
If it’s end Rd 1 I’d say no
IF it’s early …I’m all in

The club must be this ruthless- it’s why the board have backed Lyon who now has brought in an A grade footy dept ..
No longer “Lethlean picks”

[Teflon]

Not sure who Stav is or where he gets his “knowledge” , but seems like a complete word salad to me.

He talks about how we are going to turnover the list and go for young players, in another sentence talks about topping up with some aging b listers from the Dogs (shudder to think who that could be)

Strikes me this bloke is straight from the Coodabeens, talking to his cabbie who had his hair cut by the cousin of a former flat mate of (insert minor AFL player here)

Suggest you get out more…