Roma

[Jacks Back]

Taken from the positive thread:

Our center bounce clearance work is horrendous

it doesnt help when roma tapped to the opposition at times.
if we had a good ruck imagine how valuable Roma would be around the grd

I'd love to know what the game plan is regarding centre bounce. We look as if we're always looking to defend. It's as if we're expecting to be second to the ball.

When Roma does win the tap out, it's a total surprise. Our mids don't hunt the footy. They hunt the opposition mids and they wait to restrict and get a turnover.

I'd love Steele to be given a licence in the centre to hunt the ball first. Let your opponent come to you.

Unfortunately we seem to be caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to Marshall. He IS great around the ground - maybe even number 1 ruck around the ground - however he is not a centre bounce ruckman (he's too short/doesn't have a high leap). Due to that, we seem to be roving to the opposition ruckman at the centre bounces.

So what's the solution?
- We can't carry Roma plus, say, a Campbell, as Campbell doesn't seem to do much around the ground.
- Max Heath, from what I've seen of a handful of Sandy games on the tele, seems to be the around the same as Roma - taller (204cm compared to 201cm) but doesn't seem to have a high leap (I could be mistaken though).
- Can we wait for Keeler to come good (hopefully one day he will but it sounds like they are going to play him in defence - plus only 198cm according to the saints website)?
- Should we (heaven forbid) trade Roma (unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a Paddy Ryder around anywhere)?

Anyway, in the end, we may not be able to improve in centre clearances unless something changes.

[Vortex]

Hayes

[SydneySainter]

Remember Roma & Paddy - so good!

[Jacks Back]

Hayes

Maybe but he is in the Hannebery mould - always injured

[Vortex]

Hayes

Maybe but he is in the Hannebery mould - always injured

Frustratingly so....BUT if he could get his body right he is the precise player prototype our structure is screaming out for.

They just don't grow on trees unfortunately.

[amusingname]

Hayes

If the concern of the OP is losing tapouts, Hayes is not the answer. He is 8cms shorter than Rowan and a forward/ruck rather than a ruck.

[Vortex]

Hayes

If the concern of the OP is losing tapouts, Hayes is not the answer. He is 8cms shorter than Rowan and a forward/ruck rather than a ruck.

A mobile forward/Ruck is what our structure needs is my guess. I'm not thinking Hayes is introduced to win tap outs becaue a good mobile Ruck due is more valuable than a tap ruckman in the modern game who is almost a midfielder.

How many cm is Owens shorter than RoMa?

[Scollop]

Whats Barry Brooks up to these days?

Nahhh, sorry…scrap that.

Whats Billy Longer up to these days?

[amusingname]

Hayes

If the concern of the OP is losing tapouts, Hayes is not the answer. He is 8cms shorter than Rowan and a forward/ruck rather than a ruck.

A mobile forward/Ruck is what our structure needs is my guess. I'm not thinking Hayes is introduced to win tap outs becaue a good mobile Ruck due is more valuable than a tap ruckman in the modern game who is almost a midfielder.

How many cm is Owens shorter than RoMa?

I agree that Hayes would be handy as a forward/ruck option. That was not what was being suggested in the OP, which is why I mentioned him not being a tap ruckman.

[Vortex]

Hayes

If the concern of the OP is losing tapouts, Hayes is not the answer. He is 8cms shorter than Rowan and a forward/ruck rather than a ruck.

A mobile forward/Ruck is what our structure needs is my guess. I'm not thinking Hayes is introduced to win tap outs becaue a good mobile Ruck due is more valuable than a tap ruckman in the modern game who is almost a midfielder.

How many cm is Owens shorter than RoMa?

I agree that Hayes would be handy as a forward/ruck option. That was not what was being suggested in the OP, which is why I mentioned him not being a tap ruckman.

Yeah and I understand the OP however I'm suggesting we don't need a tap biased ruckman, I think RoMa doesn't need to win the centre bounce hit out to to be effective, he is more valuable after the centre bounce at the ground level and is almost a midfielder.

And I'm not suggesting Hayes as a tap Ruck either but more a chopout to RoMa in a similar mould in that he's also strong at ground level so more valuable at centre bounces as an extra midfielder also.

They are simalr in what they bring to the forward/Ruck role, they are very mobile and good at ground level and can share the load which is all RoMa needs...a chopiut because currently the workload is too much for him.

[wally]

Over the years I’ve heard the suggestion to play Roma as a forward and get another ruckman and rejected it.
Now I reckon a Max /Roma combo would be the go with a full time ruckman .
We went for and failed to get Draper, should we have gone harder for Xierri? Should we have had a go at Grundy, or maybe Goldstein.
Is there someone out there to get?

[wally]

Peter Wright was the other one I wondered if we should have looked at from Gold Coast to Essendon.

[SaintPav]

Marshall is not the reason why we lost on Saturday night. He got us back in the game.

[older saint]

Hit outs are some what overrated. That said how many complete ruckmen are there in the league- centre square , around the ground and possessions. Considering there are on average maybe 25-30 centre sq ball ups it is a trade off to some extent and he wins some of these, so say it is 10 v 20 but Roma has 20 poss and 10 marks and kicks a goal or 2. Seems pretty good to me .

[The Fireman]

King in the ruck with Roma forward then swap

[Life Long Saint]

It's a known issue...We made a big play for both Xerri and Draper, if I recall, and couldn't land either of them.

[B.M]

Depends how much you value a tap

Generally they mean FA

Unless it’s a clear tap to advantage (which is about 10-15% for the best rucks)

[B.M]

Personally - I’d take a great around the ground ruckman - every day of the week!

[Scollop]

From the other thread I asked this question;

Ask our mids who they'd prefer as their ruckman? A guy who wins ground balls and gets clearances from around the ground stoppages...or a bloke who is a very good tap ruckman?

And take a look at the hitout stats for Ryder in 2017 when he won Port's Best and Fairest.

https://www.saintsational.net/viewtopic ... 5#p2047105

[Scollop]

We can make it work. Our mids need to make it work because RoMa adds so much value around the ground.

I suppose our mids were somewhat spoiled by having Ryder and they know that most of the time Ro will break even or lose the hit out at centre bounce.

We need Mich at more centre bounces and even if he goes straight back to his forward position after the centre clearance, at least he's another big body (and a valuable clearance winner) in the centre.

[SydneySainter]

Personally - I’d take a great around the ground ruckman - every day of the week!

Remember Tom Hickey (although I thought he was unfairly maligned at times).

[The Fireman]

Personally - I’d take a great around the ground ruckman - every day of the week!

Remember Tom Hickey (although I thought he was unfairly maligned at times).

Do you have any positive remedies in mind?

[SydneySainter]

Personally - I’d take a great around the ground ruckman - every day of the week!

Remember Tom Hickey (although I thought he was unfairly maligned at times).

Do you have any positive remedies in mind?

Where am I being negative?

Hickey was terrific around the ground, but jury was out as to how you could contend in the centre - so much so that some on here were of the view that his centre work was such a liability, that it outweighed the merit of his ground play and they favoured Longer (me not included).

Again, what is so negative.

[Big Max]

Just play Keeler .. swapping forward & ruck with Marshall ..

[The Fireman]

I reiterate. Do you have any positive remedies in mind?
As opposed to 99% of your negative posts