Will these players be better.....

[cwrcyn]

Than these players...

Dow v Bytel
Henry v Gresham
Hastie v Coffield
Collard v Billings
Schoenmaker v Highmore
Wilson v McKenzie
Bonner v Connolly
O'Connell v Adams
Garcia v Peris

[damienc]

Than these players...

Dow v Bytel
Henry v Gresham
Hastie v Coffield
Collard v Billings
Schoenmaker v Highmore
Wilson v McKenzie
Bonner v Connolly
O'Connell v Adams
Garcia v Peris

Sure if you like comparing apples and oranges or think you can.

You can't.

I also don't believe comparisons are helpful or advance the cause.

The players on the right are not at the club for good reasons. They were always injured. Not good enough or both.

The players on the left are what the club chose as the best available to be picked.

Let's give them the chance to show us what they've got.

You might be pleasantly surprised. The newbies all seem to possess X factor.

The same could not be said for the players on the right.

I'm sure some will try and say it and probably still think it but they are wrong.

[Sanctorum]

It's impossible to say with any degree of certainty that the new players will in every case be better than the players who've departed.

Neither highlight reels nor reports of their form in junior footy or at the draft camps can be relied upon to determine that they will perform well in senior football, it's an entirely different and higher level..

Nonetheless, apart from Henry, Dow and Bonner who have proved themselves at their first clubs, there's a lot of hype about the likes of Collard, Wilson and Schoenmaker to possess that mercurial X-factor and if they do, than the team will be vastly improved.

Personally I like Collard because he has ambitions to play like Shai Bolton; Wilson because he has said he is deternined to play round 1 next year and I reckon he could be another Petracca; Schoenmaker for his long kick out of defence to turn the game back into St Kilda's forward zone.

[CQ SAINT]

I think Hugo might shine the brightest.
There's x factor there, it's just wrapped up in what looks like a pretty disciplined package and his x factor may just be discipline.

I'm also looking back at Keeler Van Es and Hotton.

This is where the pressure should be coming b from. IMHO. Wilson looks class. Shoey is behind some class already and looks far less lively as a key than Wilkie, who does 3 roles.

I will enjoying watching Sandy develop a game plan rather than moving wounded pieces around our developing young players.

[Big Max]

Than these players...

Dow v Bytel
Henry v Gresham
Hastie v Coffield
Collard v Billings
Schoenmaker v Highmore
Wilson v McKenzie
Bonner v Connolly
O'Connell v Adams
Garcia v Peris

I'll have a crack ...

Dow should be better than Bytel
Henry ... Gresham .. we can hope ...
Hastie, Coffield ...hummm ...
Collard ... Billings ... probably not better, just younger and quicker
Schoemaker hopefully better
Wilson if he's healthy
Bonner .. but both depth
O'Connell not much to beat
Garcia should be better

[Beno88]

Than these players...

Dow v Bytel
Henry v Gresham
Hastie v Coffield
Collard v Billings
Schoenmaker v Highmore
Wilson v McKenzie
Bonner v Connolly
O'Connell v Adams
Garcia v Peris

In 2024? I'll have a guess.

Dow v Bytel - Yes, Dow will play Round 1, Bytel wouldn't have.
Henry v Gresham - Yes, despite some good patches Gresham was fringe best 22 for much of 2023, Henry will play every game if fit.
Hastie v Coffield - No, Hastie needs a few years under his belt, whereas Coffield will play Round 1 for the Dogs.
Collard v Billings - No, Collard will be a player, but Billings is marginally more likely to play at AFL level in 2024.
Schoenmaker v Highmore - Yes, Arie will be an immediate upgrade on Highmore.
Wilson v McKenzie - Yes, Wilson just needs to get on the park and he's ahead.
Bonner v Connolly - Yes, Bonner not up against much here. Both seemingly back up at best but Bonner has more AFL experience.
O'Connell v Adams - No, Adams would've been more likely to play AFL footy. O'Connell just needs a solid year at Sandy to be ahead by years end.
Garcia v Peris - Yes, probably the toughest call. Peris made his debut in 2023 and wasn't disgraced, but I think Hugo will excel past where Peris was at VFL level.

[cwrcyn]

For us to get better, the new group has to ultimately be better than the previous group

It will also be interesting so see the ones who develop into senior players out of Hotton, Keeler, Van Es, McLennan, Heath, and Allison.

This is the first time in 20 years we've had such a large group of youngsters. I'm confident out of the 12 untried players we can get at least 5 to become regular senior players. If we get 6 or 7, that will be a huge win.

My tip for the mostly likely

Hotton
Hastie
Wilson
Keeler
Collard

[SaintPav]

The new group has more upside by far.

Bytel, Billings, Gresham and even Coffield most likely not got to get that much better.

I hope these words don’t come back to haunt me.

[Otiman]

You run a club on the basis of probabilities. With 40 list spots you don't expect 40 superstars, but if you turnover the ones that are no good, injury prone, or don't fit the team dynamic (personality or physical attributes), then you move them on and bring in new players.

The new players are always more unknown than what you've got. "Better the devil you know" doesn't make good sense in elite sport.

So, we got rid of players who have been through our system and we understand their capabilities and ceiling, and bring in a bunch of unknowns, some of which won't make it, and on balance of probabilities some will.

The trick is to get more right than wrong.

[nostalgicsaint]

Only Gresham was a regular in our 22 last year.

By that measure along the addition of Dow and Henry should see improvement as both will be in the starting side.

So short term we have improved our list and more importantly have positioned ourself better for the long term too.

[Nick DalSanto Claus]

Than these players...

Dow v Bytel
Henry v Gresham
Hastie v Coffield
Collard v Billings
Schoenmaker v Highmore
Wilson v McKenzie
Bonner v Connolly
O'Connell v Adams
Garcia v Peris

Hard to disagree with your assessment of the newbies, cwrcyn. That list on the left gives great cause for optimism and excitement.

I'd like to add my congratulations to Chris Toce, Roughie, SOS, and Gubby for the overall drafting and trading over the past three years. We have now cast the disasters of the "Trout & Liberatore" years into the dustbin of history.

I'd just like to add the following to the abovementioned list:

NWM
Windhager
Owens
Cordy
Phillipou
Keeler
Van Es
Hotton
Caminiti
Stocker

In all, that makes 18 new players who will form the nucleus of what should be a team capable of challenging for a flag in the next decade. Even though history tells us that about 50% of these 18 are unlikely to make it in a significant way, I believe that 4 or 5 will become genuine A graders with the rest proving to be useful players.

Exciting times ahead!

[Otiman]

I feel like we played Gresham to increase his trade/FA value.

I also think many are overrating Henry's contribution at Freo. If he has been picked on ability rather than potential then we are going backwards.

Per game averages 2023:
20 disposals
0.06 goals
Nothing else in the stats of note.

Needs to lift to be in our best 22.

[CQ SAINT]

I feel like we played Gresham to increase his trade/FA value.

I also think many are overrating Henry's contribution at Freo. If he has been picked on ability rather than potential then we are going backwards.

Per game averages 2023:
20 disposals
0.06 goals
Nothing else in the stats of note.

Needs to lift to be in our best 22.

Try a comparison to the year before and the competition for those spots in each squad

Age is also a factor.

[magnifisaint]

Than these players...

Dow v Bytel
Henry v Gresham
Hastie v Coffield
Collard v Billings
Schoenmaker v Highmore
Wilson v McKenzie
Bonner v Connolly
O'Connell v Adams
Garcia v Peris

Of course. On every count!

[Otiman]

Try a comparison to the year before and the competition for those spots in each squad

Age is also a factor.

Yes no doubt, but to the argument that he slots straight into our best 22 based on form, I don't buy it.

I have every expectation he will prove himself in the preseason and earn that spot, but it's not an automatic selection.

[Sainternist]

Yes! Most of those names that are no longer at the club were players either past it or simply not up to snuff.

[Vortex]

Only time will tell.

Obviously

Interesting though to see SEN held a poll asking 50 thousand fans which team they think will be the biggest slider in 2024 and 85.4% said we will be the biggest slider.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/11/30/ ... ds-of-fans

[Otiman]

Only time will tell.

Obviously

Interesting though to see SEN held a poll asking 50 thousand fans which team they think will be the biggest slider in 2024 and 85.4% said we will be the biggest slider.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/11/30/ ... ds-of-fans

Happy to go in as underdogs again. We were picked for bottom 4 by many this year.

[Vortex]

Only time will tell.

Obviously

Interesting though to see SEN held a poll asking 50 thousand fans which team they think will be the biggest slider in 2024 and 85.4% said we will be the biggest slider.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/11/30/ ... ds-of-fans

Happy to go in as underdogs again. We were picked for bottom 4 by many this year.

As a St Kilda supporter I always expect to be underdog, it's my safe zone.

[SaintPav]

Only time will tell.

Obviously

Interesting though to see SEN held a poll asking 50 thousand fans which team they think will be the biggest slider in 2024 and 85.4% said we will be the biggest slider.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/11/30/ ... ds-of-fans

Isn’t the crowd usually wrong?

[Vortex]

Only time will tell.

Obviously

Interesting though to see SEN held a poll asking 50 thousand fans which team they think will be the biggest slider in 2024 and 85.4% said we will be the biggest slider.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/11/30/ ... ds-of-fans

Isn’t the crowd usually wrong?

I our case, the numbers over a 150 period suggest not.

[SaintPav]

Only time will tell.

Obviously

Interesting though to see SEN held a poll asking 50 thousand fans which team they think will be the biggest slider in 2024 and 85.4% said we will be the biggest slider.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/11/30/ ... ds-of-fans

Isn’t the crowd usually wrong?

I our case, the numbers over a 150 period suggest not.

1 billion fans could say the same but it wouldn’t mean anything. A lot of bias in these surveys..they have zero predictive value.

The article is also factually incorrect:

“Of course, the Saints were overlooked and ignored across the 2023 season despite spending the vast majority inside the top eight”.

We spent the entire season in the 8 and didn’t finish below 7th throughout the season.

[NickyDal]

Than these players...

Dow v Bytel
Henry v Gresham
Hastie v Coffield
Collard v Billings
Schoenmaker v Highmore
Wilson v McKenzie
Bonner v Connolly
O'Connell v Adams
Garcia v Peris

I will never understand why RTB got rid of Peris-Kneebone.

[Banger9798]

Only time will tell.

Obviously

Interesting though to see SEN held a poll asking 50 thousand fans which team they think will be the biggest slider in 2024 and 85.4% said we will be the biggest slider.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/11/30/ ... ds-of-fans

Isn’t the crowd usually wrong?

I our case, the numbers over a 150 period suggest not.

1 billion fans could say the same but it wouldn’t mean anything. A lot of bias in these surveys..they have zero predictive value.

The article is also factually incorrect:

“Of course, the Saints were overlooked and ignored across the 2023 season despite spending the vast majority inside the top eight”.

We spent the entire season in the 8 and didn’t finish below 7th throughout the season.

Happy to be under estimated.....we just need to continue to improve. Good list, well coached, good recruiting and drafting.

[SaintPav]

Only time will tell.

Obviously

Interesting though to see SEN held a poll asking 50 thousand fans which team they think will be the biggest slider in 2024 and 85.4% said we will be the biggest slider.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2023/11/30/ ... ds-of-fans

Isn’t the crowd usually wrong?

I our case, the numbers over a 150 period suggest not.

1 billion fans could say the same but it wouldn’t mean anything. A lot of bias in these surveys..they have zero predictive value.

The article is also factually incorrect:

“Of course, the Saints were overlooked and ignored across the 2023 season despite spending the vast majority inside the top eight”.

We spent the entire season in the 8 and didn’t finish below 7th throughout the season.

Happy to be under estimated.....we just need to continue to improve. Good list, well coached, good recruiting and drafting.

Me too. It probably works for us not that it means anything in itself or guarantees anything as the club needs to keep improving as you have pointed out.

The opposite to being underestimated is hype and we all know how that story usually ends.