Cordy or Dougs

[older saint]

This will be a tough one. Probably a decision not expected to have to make 24 weeks ago.

Any guesses

[Banger9798]

We've looked better with Cordy

[B.M]

Have we looked better with Cordy - ie/ we’ve played better

Or because of Cordy?

[skeptic]

Before injury… Howard was under fire for poor form/decision making. IMO the criticism was overblown but had at least some validity.

Since Cordy has come in, he has looked really good, done really well and the team as a whole has played better which pbly doesn’t have that much to do with Zaine though he’d have played a small part.

It’s a tough call but I think swapping them would send a bad message. Cordy has earned his spot, up to him to drop it or Howard to take it away from him

[Otiman]

How many scoring shots has Cordy had against him in defense? I'd bet more per match than Howard. What about 1v1 contest wins? Again I reckon the same but not sure where stats at that level are available.

[SaintPav]

Cordy has been serviceable in the backline. He looks more assured that Dougal. The way Zaine has been spoken about says more about Howard than anything.

I’d be inclined to not change the back 6 at this stage.

Dougs will most likely be included in the squad and end up being named as an emergency is my educated guess.

[Otiman]

Found some stats on Wheelo:

Loss %: Percentage of defensive one-on-one contests lost (minimum 10 contests)
Howard: 22.4%
Cordy: 35.7%

[B.M]

Who does d Cordy match up on vs Brisbane?

[SaintPav]

He played on Joe I thought.

[Otiman]

https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats.html?year=2023 for anyone interested:

And for comparison across the team and comp:

Callum Wilkie 22.7
Josh Battle 24.1
Jimmy Webster 19.2

Sam Taylor 11.9
Jake Lever 22.4
Harris Andrews 14.8
Jacob Weitering 11.5

[cwrcyn]

Jesse Hogan is a seriously big unit. I was shocked at how huge he is. I'd stick with Cordy.

[Beno88]

Cordy averages last four matches as a defender
Disposals – 11.75
Efficiency - 90%
Rebound 50 – 2.50
Marks – 5.50
Contested Marks – 0.75
Score Inv – 1.50
1%ERS – 6.50
Clangers – 1.25

His opponents averaged 1.50 goals from 2.75 shots.

He has not kept an opponent goalless.

He has not conceded more than 2 goals.


Howard averages in 2023
Disposals – 12.83
Efficiency – 89%
Rebound 50s – 2.00
Marks – 5.50
Contested Marks – 0.56
Score Involvements – 1.60
1%ERS – 8.17
Clangers – 1.78

His opponents averaged 1.67 goals from 2.67 shots.

He has kept an opponent goalless three times.

He has conceded more than 2 goals four times.


Howard’s numbers are slightly better, but seems prone to a bad day every 4-5 games.

[SinCitySainter]

Howard was dealing with a midfield that was regularly getting it's arse handed to it.
Cordy comes in and has two good games where our midfield was well on top, a rare occurrence this year.
We then play Brisbane where the midfield again was runover and Joe tears Cordy a new one.
The fact that Joe's goal kicking is about as reliable as Donald Trump's press secretary somewhat ameliorated the damage done.
It doesn't change the fact though that Howard has generally been more than serviceable and Cordy was just lucky to be in the spot during a couple of the teams best performances for the year.

[Banger9798]

Fair points.
What the stats don't show because it isn't quantifiable, is the level of panic vs calm in the backline.
With Cordy, the back 6/7 seem more composed and position better.
Joe beat Cordy last game, and it may be that Howard would have done better, part off the question is, which player helps the overall defence the best.
I'm tipping Cordy keeps his spot.

[bakes]

Definitely keep Cordy in.

Doogs and Gresham make obvious bloopers/errors which cause heads to drop and even change the momentum of games negatively.

We need reliable players. Happy to see both depart at season's end.

[B.M]

Depends a bit on match ups

Wilkie belted Hogan last time

Who is their other key forward?

Howard is taller 199 but leaner
Cordy is 195 but stronger

Howard is actually a better kick, but bites off too much and makes decision errors a bit
Cordy is a poor kick (horrible action!), but tends to stay in his lane.

Howard is generally a better athlete
Cordy is more match hardened

My vote would be Cordy - this week

If we got through, that would probably change.

[wally]

Is it possible Howard comes back in and Cordy replaces the injured Hayes?

[bigcarl]

Much of a muchness going on stats, so it will be interesting. We may go with the incumbent for match fitness reasons.

Who gets Greene is an interesting one. He’s not that tall, but plays like a KPF. Wilkie?

[B.M]

If I ever see Cordy in our forward line again - I’ll fkn lose it

C grade defender
E grade forward

[Vortex]

Howard was dealing with a midfield that was regularly getting it's arse handed to it.
Cordy comes in and has two good games where our midfield was well on top, a rare occurrence this year.
We then play Brisbane where the midfield again was runover and Joe tears Cordy a new one.
The fact that Joe's goal kicking is about as reliable as Donald Trump's press secretary somewhat ameliorated the damage done.
It doesn't change the fact though that Howard has generally been more than serviceable and Cordy was just lucky to be in the spot during a couple of the teams best performances for the year.

Yeah good observation, outside of those two games you mention there wasn’t any love for Cordz but and now all of a sudden supporters have forgotten how important Doug’s has been, suspect it is due to the internet hate campaign running on Doug’s.

I think Doug’s will come in a Cordy will stay in now Hayes isn’t an option for that flexibility finals type which means Sharman is the obvious out.

[B.M]

Sharman is a better forward than Cordy

So that will be a mistake

[The_Dud]

Cordy

[B.M]

Webster 188/80 will get first crack on Greene 182/84

Wilkie is not good enough at ground level to go with Greene

Wilkie will get Hogan

Cordy/Howard will get another tall

Then there is Battle

[bigcarl]

Webster 188/80 will get first crack on Greene 182/84

Wilkie is not good enough at ground level to go with Greene

Wilkie will get Hogan

Cordy/Howard will get another tall

Then there is Battle

Is Jimmy strong enough to go with him?

Was that who had him last time? If so, it was reasonably effective and you’d expect more of the same

[Trev from the Bush]

Fair points.
What the stats don't show because it isn't quantifiable, is the level of panic vs calm in the backline.
With Cordy, the back 6/7 seem more composed and position better.
Joe beat Cordy last game, and it may be that Howard would have done better, part off the question is, which player helps the overall defence the best.
I'm tipping Cordy keeps his spot.

The back half is perceived to be more composed since Dougal was injured only because other players up field weren't doing their job well enough.

The positive comments posted about Cordy are fair enough. He is cool and generally has good disposal. However, he is not the sole source of our resurgence. Josh Battle's last third of a season has put an end to all speculation about his future and where he plays best. He has been superb. Stocker and NWM have been good all season but have lifted a notch or two over the past five or six weeks. Wilkie - well you know what to expect. Unflustered leadership.

Dougal and Wilkie had been holding our defence together admirably over the last three seasons. Dougal can become flustered under extreme pressure but, generally speaking is one of the best key defenders in the business. Had he only missed a week I would have selected him in preference to Cordy, but the reality is he hasn't played since fracturing his wrist against the 'Roos on 23 July. In what was a putrid game, it was during the last quarter I felt the Saints regained their mojo and began to look a final 8 force again.

Do you stick with Cordy or bring back Howard, who has missed 7 weeks of playing and hard training? Tough call, my best wishes to the selectors.