So are we better than last year ?

[The Fireman]

Have the ones that reckon the change of coach was a bad decision had a change of heart ?


RTB fanboy

[CURLY]

Yes. Only game we haven’t been a chance in was the Adelaide game.

[The_Dud]

Yep.

[saynta]

Yep, got to admit it.

[CQ SAINT]

On the first half of the season, hard to say. Overcoming injuries and close results had us looking 50% better.

Membrey and King made a huge difference in the last couple of games. Sharman is dangerous and Higgins and Butler could have buried Geelong by 3 quarter time.

We need to average 13.7 to be top 4.

That isn't out of our grasp.

Id say about 45% better over all.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Started to doubt RTB after the GC loss but this looks like our best season since his previous year as Saints coach, 2011.

Only problem is ... we still might not make the 8, partly due to the Injectors's pathetic effort and partly due to a wonky goal umpire in Adelaide.

[B.M]

Now we are

Still not in finals yet though

[The Fireman]

Now we are

Still not in finals yet though

Ok so you answered yes

[Killa]

The natural improvement of Wanganeen-Milera, Owens and Windhager plus the addition of Phillipou = improvement

From last season we lost Ryder, Hannebery and Geary all of whom were not consistently on the park plus we lost Long also in and out of the side

That is the personnel comparative

Injuries have been kinder this year, now building to a fully fit List

The only player who is down on 2022 form is the Captain, but now building after playing the season under difficulty

Plus our depth is better, noting the Emergencies for this match so Coffield, Billings and Byrnes

Plus we have some kids at Sandringham with plenty of potential and some of them will provide structural strength

[Impatient Sainter]

Have the ones that reckon the change of coach was a bad decision had a change of heart ?

RTB fanboy

Absolutely, we had the same mid season form slump but RTB has been able to work us out of this years. Plus plenty of players have improved and others have had games on the back of our huge injury list. We will be really stiff to miss out on the finals now, but how good would it be to beat Brisbane up there and go into the finals as a real threat.

[Banger9798]

Easier draw this year, but still think we are better.

Very bad injuries, which only last couple of weeks have eased up.

We are fitter and have found a few..


Including Stocker, who was great again tonight

[Killa]

Over the concluding stages of last year we were decimated by injury

Look at the side we took to Geelong, playing Sharman as a key defender because we had no height

This season we are getting players back

Plus our draw and playing sides which competed in the finals twice has been “easier”, no AFL game easy

[The Fireman]

Over the concluding stages of last year we were decimated by injury

Look at the side we took to Geelong, playing Sharman as a key defender because we had no height

This season we are getting players back

Plus our draw and playing sides which competed in the finals twice has been “easier”, no AFL game easy

So we aren’t better ?

[CQ SAINT]

The losses were much worse last year and there were more of them. We are significantly better.

[CQ SAINT]

The losses were much worse last year and there were more of them. We are significantly better.

[Killa]

Of note to me is, that of the side on the park tonight, Gresham has kicked 20 goals, Owens 25, King 25, Butler 32, Phillipou 12, Higgins 35, Wood 14 and Sharman 13

Caminiti has 19

So a spread of goal kickers

Noting Membrey has not hit the scoreboard since returning

[Ghost Like]

Now we are

Still not in finals yet though

Ok so you answered yes

It's like playing with The Riddler from the Adam West days.

[Saintmatt]

The natural improvement of Wanganeen-Milera, Owens and Windhager plus the addition of Phillipou = improvement

From last season we lost Ryder, Hannebery and Geary all of whom were not consistently on the park plus we lost Long also in and out of the side

That is the personnel comparative

Injuries have been kinder this year, now building to a fully fit List

The only player who is down on 2022 form is the Captain, but now building after playing the season under difficulty

Plus our depth is better, noting the Emergencies for this match so Coffield, Billings and Byrnes

Plus we have some kids at Sandringham with plenty of potential and some of them will provide structural strength

Injuries have been kinder? WITAF? Were you dropped on your head as a youngster or you missed the first half of the season when we had 1,000 games of injuries some weeks? FMD

[The G Train Legacy]

Yep, got to admit it.

You turn in one game, incredible! So are you joining the Ross Lyon Fan Club?

[Scollop]

Over the concluding stages of last year we were decimated by injury

Look at the side we took to Geelong, playing Sharman as a key defender because we had no height

This season we are getting players back

Plus our draw and playing sides which competed in the finals twice has been “easier”, no AFL game easy

So we aren’t better ?

Are we better mainly due to the replacement of the head coach or is it due in large part to the factors mentioned in Killa's first post in this thread?

Owens, Windy and NWM are now bigger and stronger. And fitter. Is that due to the coach?

Sometimes, all a playing group needs is some stability and an opportunity to grow.

A few of the fanboys want to credit 1 person alone everytime we have a win. Ross has done his job, however the growth and development of several players is more important

The club has not had stability with regard to a settled line up. I looked at our team lineup from 2 years ago and there were only 12 players playing tonight. I looked at the 2020 team that won a final and we have 10 from that team that were playing tonight

Last year we started getting used to all the changes from 2019/20 and 2021. The stability in the line up is a huge factor. If you go to round 19 of the 2022 season there were 18 players in that match who also played tonight (we played Geelong Rnd 19 last year incidentally).

We met a rampaging Geelong late last year in the best form they'd ever been in a decade ....versus meeting a shell of that side in tonight's match. A few full tummys no doubt

We were lucky that they were a fumbling stumbling mess who couldn't take advantage of our poor kicking. We've seen it happen to us and to so many other clubs.

We left the door ajar and any other finals worthy outfit would have punished us in the 3rd and 4th quarters. But this wasn't the Geelong team that we've been used to over the years.

I think that sometimes circumstances have a much greater influence on determining wins and losses rather than what you're thinking

Your thread seems to imply that Ratten would have been unable to get this team to improve. Your thread seems to imply that Ratten was wasting his time with changes to his group of assistant coaches. I don't believe that to be the case

Maybe it's the whole coaching group we should be thanking each week instead of heaping praise on just one individual.

[Scollop]

Have the ones that reckon the change of coach was a bad decision had a change of heart ?

Not yet. If there's some surprise outcomes in September and we play one of the top 4 and beat them, I'll let you know.

Sydney and Geelong were Grand Finalists. Richmond and Fremantle made finals last year. Did changing coaches at St Kilda affect them as well.

We've beaten these teams this year and so have a lot of other teams. But...did you also realise we beat them last year? I think most people would agree that last year they were all stronger.

It's a bit of a tricky subject. Do you isolate win/loss ratios and forget about other factors?

The point is that it's not as simple as saying Ross Lyon is better than Brett Ratten. I think the club as a whole is doing well. I think Ross is not the only person responsible for us having a relatively good year.

Some people thank God every time they sit down for a meal. Some people don't

[Killa]

A statistical fact is that we were the last side to defeat Geelong in 2022 (under the roof at Docklands and when we had a relatively injury free List, starting with Ryder and his importance)

And we are the side that has finished Geelong’s 2023 season under the roof at Docklands

It is a difference that we were losing players as 2022 evolved and that in 2023 we are getting players back from injury

Plus, courtesy of our List management over the past couple of years (plural) has given us depth

Look at the Emergencies from last night, Coffield and Billings coming back from injury and Byrnes

At this stage last year the only players standing were our 26 named

In the first instance, all Coaches need players as Clarkson going to North Melbourne once again confirms

Sandringham today will be interesting (and player availability flows down to them)

[Lennylegs]

Have the ones that reckon the change of coach was a bad decision had a change of heart ?

Not yet. If there's some surprise outcomes in September and we play one of the top 4 and beat them, I'll let you know.

Sydney and Geelong were Grand Finalists. Richmond and Fremantle made finals last year. Did changing coaches at St Kilda affect them as well.

We've beaten these teams this year and so have a lot of other teams. But...did you also realise we beat them last year? I think most people would agree that last year they were all stronger.

It's a bit of a tricky subject. Do you isolate win/loss ratios and forget about other factors?

The point is that it's not as simple as saying Ross Lyon is better than Brett Ratten. I think the club as a whole is doing well. I think Ross is not the only person responsible for us having a relatively good year.

Some people thank God every time they sit down for a meal. Some people don't

Just concede, mate. It's okay to be wrong. Replacing Ratt with Ross was unequivocally the right decision. Poorly handled, but ultimately correct.

It's not even a discussion now. Under Ratts we were capable of getting pumped by 80 points every third week. Successful clubs don't put up with those standards. This year we've been in every game bar one.

[Milne]

Last year we would have patches in games that you genuine premiership quality levels of play. Then we'd have other times when we couldn't even get the ball out of the half back line because we were so predictable in the way we move the ball.

This year we have been a lot more consistent, and I believe we are now defensively the second best team in the league based on scores against (unless Melbourne only let in 4 goals today).

We are also heading upwards, whereas last year we fell in a heap and therefore had all the pundits predicting that slide to continue this year.

Fantastic effort to turn it around by Ross, definitely wasn't expecting us to have a shot at finals this year

[CQ SAINT]

A statistical fact is that we were the last side to defeat Geelong in 2022 (under the roof at Docklands and when we had a relatively injury free List, starting with Ryder and his importance)

And we are the side that has finished Geelong’s 2023 season under the roof at Docklands

It is a difference that we were losing players as 2022 evolved and that in 2023 we are getting players back from injury

Plus, courtesy of our List management over the past couple of years (plural) has given us depth

Look at the Emergencies from last night, Coffield and Billings coming back from injury and Byrnes

At this stage last year the only players standing were our 26 named

In the first instance, all Coaches need players as Clarkson going to North Melbourne once again confirms

Sandringham today will be interesting (and player availability flows down to them)

All good points.

Some commentary on the minimal number of changes this year, in terms of players used, the measure of the results achieved, and the difference in tactics, would be welcomed.

Those are the elements we can control.

I think we handled them so much better, despite the panic and distaste, caused mainly by an unrelated bias on the coach, by many on here.

We have been well in the 8 all year, and now we seem capable of equalling 2020.