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He’s really taken supporter disquiet to a new (low) level. I mean, there’s always the usual whipping boys (eg Ross, Howard etc) but they’re a bit more of an eye roll … rather than the genuine disgust, bordering on hatred - that pervades No. 4.
I don’t know one of our supporters who even tries to defend his output.
For me? Gresham will always be the poster boy for everything that was wrong with St Kilda between 2012 - 2022 where terrible standards and zero development existed and anyone with a bit of talent was allowed to do as they wanted.
His incredibly poor body language and perpetually lazy efforts really are a cancer on the playing group. Once his trade to Carlton or Hawthorn is completed, I hope they chuck his locker contents in a box at the front door and fumigate said locker to remove the stench of mediocrity and selfishness.
It’s a sad story really. I’ve been a big Gresh defender until I think this season.
Early on he was on track to become an A-grade small forward, THEN the geniuses at the time tried to turn him into a midfielder and it was all done hill from there. I know he’s had a few injuries, but imagine if he’d spent that time perfecting a forward role?
His biggest problem is the only club he has in his bag is a sandwedge.
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
Take Richo for instance wanting to hang on to Jack Steven with all his issues. That was a very selfish act. Steven did not want to be there and it probably cost us a second round draft pick.
The club just needs to get on with it and do what needs to be done. It will take at least two years to turn this environment around.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
The_Dud wrote: ↑Sun 06 Aug 2023 8:19pm
It’s a sad story really. I’ve been a big Gresh defender until I think this season.
Early on he was on track to become an A-grade small forward, THEN the geniuses at the time tried to turn him into a midfielder and it was all done hill from there. I know he’s had a few injuries, but imagine if he’d spent that time perfecting a forward role?
His biggest problem is the only club he has in his bag is a sandwedge.
The only slight leave pass I give Gresham is that he’s not a mid - never was/never will be. However, we kind of had to play him there as he was the only player on our list with a bit of toe and a step.
That said - as a small forward he’s (a) disgraceful at applying pressure; (b) one of the worst set shots for goal we’ve ever had; and (c) selfish and not team-first.
Horrendous kicking technique that he’s clearly not done a single thing to redress.
Saintmatt wrote: ↑Sun 06 Aug 2023 8:12pm
He’s really taken supporter disquiet to a new (low) level. I mean, there’s always the usual whipping boys (eg Ross, Howard etc) but they’re a bit more of an eye roll … rather than the genuine disgust, bordering on hatred - that pervades No. 4.
I don’t know one of our supporters who even tries to defend his output.
For me? Gresham will always be the poster boy for everything that was wrong with St Kilda between 2012 - 2022 where terrible standards and zero development existed and anyone with a bit of talent was allowed to do as they wanted.
His incredibly poor body language and perpetually lazy efforts really are a cancer on the playing group. Once his trade to Carlton or Hawthorn is completed, I hope they chuck his locker contents in a box at the front door and fumigate said locker to remove the stench of mediocrity and selfishness.
The turning point of the game was in the 3rd in that play where we were flying off the half back in our signature transition, Gresh receives the ball cleanly just outside F50 and all he has to do is use his speed and evasive skills to easily side step a Carlton player and then turn around Knowing King is one out and in a position to break away and receive the ball down the bread basket.
What happens next was embarrassing, especially the arm waiving and dummy spitting, both players stuffed that play up, King should have turned his opponent inside out I mean after all isn't he
"Winx"?,...and Gresh should have been able to deliver that ball down Kings throat having easily broken away to get a clear lead.
Carlton waltz down the other end for an embarrassing easy goal.
There's your cancer. It was the turning point of the game. Carlton smelt blood after that poor display.
Saintmatt wrote: ↑Sun 06 Aug 2023 8:12pm
He’s really taken supporter disquiet to a new (low) level. I mean, there’s always the usual whipping boys (eg Ross, Howard etc) but they’re a bit more of an eye roll … rather than the genuine disgust, bordering on hatred - that pervades No. 4.
I don’t know one of our supporters who even tries to defend his output.
For me? Gresham will always be the poster boy for everything that was wrong with St Kilda between 2012 - 2022 where terrible standards and zero development existed and anyone with a bit of talent was allowed to do as they wanted.
His incredibly poor body language and perpetually lazy efforts really are a cancer on the playing group. Once his trade to Carlton or Hawthorn is completed, I hope they chuck his locker contents in a box at the front door and fumigate said locker to remove the stench of mediocrity and selfishness.
The turning point of the game was in the 3rd in that play where we were flying off the half back in our signature transition, Gresh receives the ball cleanly just outside F50 and all he has to do is use his speed and evasive skills to easily side step a Carlton player and then turn around Knowing King is one out and in a position to break away and receive the ball down the bread basket.
What happens next was embarrassing, especially the arm waiving and dummy spitting, both players stuffed that play up, King should have turned his opponent inside out I mean after all isn't he
"Winx"?,...and Gresh should have been able to deliver that ball down Kings throat having easily broken away to get a clear lead.
Carlton waltz down the other end for an embarrassing easy goal.
There's your cancer. It was the turning point of the game. Carlton smelt blood after that poor display.
I rarely agree with you but you’ve perfectly encapsulated both the turning point in the game and how that pretty much sums up his time with us. All the talent and opportunity and he’s still barely B-minus grade at anything.
SaintPav wrote: ↑Sun 06 Aug 2023 8:19pm
The two previous “nice guys” really f***ed us.
Take Richo for instance wanting to hang on to Jack Steven with all his issues. That was a very selfish act. Steven did not want to be there and it probably cost us a second round draft pick.
The club just needs to get on with it and do what needs to be done. It will take at least two years to turn this environment around.
I agree with everything after your first sentence.
Ratts wasn't behind the decisions to bring in Hannebery. Richo and the club brought in Nathan Brown in 2017 and Hannas at the end of 2018.
Ratts didn't preside over the development of Gresh or the early development of Billings, Dunstan, Clark and Coff etc
Ratts didn't mortgage our future and give up all our early round draft picks at the end of 2019 for Brad Hill. That was again the board and the footy department led by Simon Lethlean
The club finally bit the bullet in 2021 and went down the development path and started using our draft picks on 18 year olds
Mr Magic wrote: ↑Sun 06 Aug 2023 8:27pm
I think Raphael Clarke was considered worse
Maybe. But my feeling on Ralph was that he was viewed by the faithful as being limited and more of a space cadet.
Gresham to me represents the worst resource in any organisation - very talented, lazy, poor body language and an utter sm@rtarse . Doesn’t even look like he gives a single f#ck.
Well, if Gresh ever ventures onto this site he certainly won't be staying.
It's a pity because other clubs want him for a reason. He has definite talent but hasn't been used properly, partly because he overestimated his own abilities as a midfielder, and partly because we have other goal-sneaks.
SaintPav wrote: ↑Sun 06 Aug 2023 8:19pm
The two previous “nice guys” really f***ed us.
Take Richo for instance wanting to hang on to Jack Steven with all his issues. That was a very selfish act. Steven did not want to be there and it probably cost us a second round draft pick.
The club just needs to get on with it and do what needs to be done. It will take at least two years to turn this environment around.
I agree with everything after your first sentence.
Ratts wasn't behind the decisions to bring in Hannebery. Richo and the club brought in Nathan Brown in 2017 and Hannas at the end of 2018.
Ratts didn't preside over the development of Gresh or the early development of Billings, Dunstan, Clark and Coff etc
Ratts didn't mortgage our future and give up all our early round draft picks at the end of 2019 for Brad Hill. That was again the board and the footy department led by Simon Lethlean
The club finally bit the bullet in 2021 and went down the development path and started using our draft picks on 18 year olds
Maybe. The coach does or should have a say though.
I was referring more to training and professional standards. The feedback I got was that under nice guy number 1, players would go to training bemused and confused on what to do. It was all very disorganised. The assistant coaches were in charge but from the sounds of it, they were clueless. From what I heard, this casual approach also continued with nice guy number 2 but perhaps not as bad. I’ve posted this before and it has never been refuted and my source is iron clad.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
SaintPav wrote: ↑Sun 06 Aug 2023 8:19pm
The two previous “nice guys” really f***ed us.
Take Richo for instance wanting to hang on to Jack Steven with all his issues. That was a very selfish act. Steven did not want to be there and it probably cost us a second round draft pick.
The club just needs to get on with it and do what needs to be done. It will take at least two years to turn this environment around.
I agree with everything after your first sentence.
Ratts wasn't behind the decisions to bring in Hannebery. Richo and the club brought in Nathan Brown in 2017 and Hannas at the end of 2018.
Ratts didn't preside over the development of Gresh or the early development of Billings, Dunstan, Clark and Coff etc
Ratts didn't mortgage our future and give up all our early round draft picks at the end of 2019 for Brad Hill. That was again the board and the footy department led by Simon Lethlean
The club finally bit the bullet in 2021 and went down the development path and started using our draft picks on 18 year olds
Maybe. The coach does or should have a say though.
I was referring more to training and professional standards. The feedback I got was that under nice guy number 1, players would go to training bemused and confused on what to do. It was all very disorganised. The assistant coaches were in charge but from the sounds of it, they were clueless. From what I heard, this casual approach also continued with nice guy number 2 but perhaps not as bad. I’ve posted this before and it has never been refuted and my source is iron clad.
Fair enough. Nick Riewoldt agrees with you
All I can say is that it's looking like groundhog day for 2023 with a similar finish to last year...
I hope the new guy in charge has more tricks up his sleeve than just 'training standards'
SaintPav wrote: ↑Sun 06 Aug 2023 8:19pm
The two previous “nice guys” really f***ed us.
Take Richo for instance wanting to hang on to Jack Steven with all his issues. That was a very selfish act. Steven did not want to be there and it probably cost us a second round draft pick.
The club just needs to get on with it and do what needs to be done. It will take at least two years to turn this environment around.
I agree with everything after your first sentence.
Ratts wasn't behind the decisions to bring in Hannebery. Richo and the club brought in Nathan Brown in 2017 and Hannas at the end of 2018.
Ratts didn't preside over the development of Gresh or the early development of Billings, Dunstan, Clark and Coff etc
Ratts didn't mortgage our future and give up all our early round draft picks at the end of 2019 for Brad Hill. That was again the board and the footy department led by Simon Lethlean
The club finally bit the bullet in 2021 and went down the development path and started using our draft picks on 18 year olds
Maybe. The coach does or should have a say though.
I was referring more to training and professional standards. The feedback I got was that under nice guy number 1, players would go to training bemused and confused on what to do. It was all very disorganised. The assistant coaches were in charge but from the sounds of it, they were clueless. From what I heard, this casual approach also continued with nice guy number 2 but perhaps not as bad. I’ve posted this before and it has never been refuted and my source is iron clad.
Fair enough. Nick Riewoldt agrees with you
All I can say is that it's looking like groundhog day for 2023 with a similar finish to last year...
I hope the new guy in charge has more tricks up his sleeve than just 'training standards'
It wasn’t Nick. It’s a current player.
Me too. Best of luck to RTB but history is clearly against him.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
Mr Magic wrote: ↑Sun 06 Aug 2023 8:27pm
I think Raphael Clarke was considered worse
Maybe. But my feeling on Ralph was that he was viewed by the faithful as being limited and more of a space cadet.
Gresham to me represents the worst resource in any organisation - very talented, lazy, poor body language and an utter sm@rtarse . Doesn’t even look like he gives a single f#ck.
Saintmatt wrote: ↑Sun 06 Aug 2023 8:12pm
He’s really taken supporter disquiet to a new (low) level. I mean, there’s always the usual whipping boys (eg Ross, Howard etc) but they’re a bit more of an eye roll … rather than the genuine disgust, bordering on hatred - that pervades No. 4.
I don’t know one of our supporters who even tries to defend his output.
For me? Gresham will always be the poster boy for everything that was wrong with St Kilda between 2012 - 2022 where terrible standards and zero development existed and anyone with a bit of talent was allowed to do as they wanted.
His incredibly poor body language and perpetually lazy efforts really are a cancer on the playing group. Once his trade to Carlton or Hawthorn is completed, I hope they chuck his locker contents in a box at the front door and fumigate said locker to remove the stench of mediocrity and selfishness.
The turning point of the game was in the 3rd in that play where we were flying off the half back in our signature transition, Gresh receives the ball cleanly just outside F50 and all he has to do is use his speed and evasive skills to easily side step a Carlton player and then turn around Knowing King is one out and in a position to break away and receive the ball down the bread basket.
What happens next was embarrassing, especially the arm waiving and dummy spitting, both players stuffed that play up, King should have turned his opponent inside out I mean after all isn't he
"Winx"?,...and Gresh should have been able to deliver that ball down Kings throat having easily broken away to get a clear lead.
Carlton waltz down the other end for an embarrassing easy goal.
There's your cancer. It was the turning point of the game. Carlton smelt blood after that poor display.
I rarely agree with you but you’ve perfectly encapsulated both the turning point in the game and how that pretty much sums up his time with us. All the talent and opportunity and he’s still barely B-minus grade at anything.
being annoyingly right is a heavy burden, would you like to hear my thoughts on some of our other players. I'm also developing some thoughts on our game plan, especially the stubborn need to put players behind the ball when you are in front and demonstrating some attacking confidence. It's telegraphing the coach's lack of faith in his sides ability to attack.
As soon as Carlton knew they could win the ball back easily from our one wood (scoring from transition), they put their foots on our throat and made us look tired and worn out.
kicking straight was the only reason we were in the game. Up until 3qtr, our talls were strong in the contest and were marking most 50/50 balls their way. Carltank knew this and countered it. Unfortunately, we were smashed in contested ball and on the spread and they always had momentum after our flurry of goals in the 2nd.
To me the turning point was the free that wasn't paid that should have put us 5 goals up at half time. Pou stopped because we should be having a shot at goal, then we turned the ball over as the ump said play on.
kicking straight was the only reason we were in the game. Up until 3qtr, our talls were strong in the contest and were marking most 50/50 balls their way. Carltank knew this and countered it. Unfortunately, we were smashed in contested ball and on the spread and they always had momentum after our flurry of goals in the 2nd.
To me the turning point was the free that wasn't paid that should have put us 5 goals up at half time. Pou stopped because we should be having a shot at goal, then we turned the ball over as the ump said play on.
