Similarities with Lyon teams

[B.M]

Common threads

Big strong contested midfielders
Hayes, Goddard
Fyfe, Mundy
Steele, Crouch

Taggers
C.Jones
Crowley
Windhager

Elite Key Forward
Reiwoldt
Pavlich
King

Good 3rd tall defenders
Fisher
Jonson
Wilkie

Running backs
Gram
Pearce
Sinclair

Good Ruckman
Gardiner
Sandilands
Marshall

Dangerous small forwards
Milne, Schneider
Ballantyne, Walters
Gresham, Higgins

Some class
Dal Santo
S.Hill
B.Hill

Then a heap of role players
McQualter, Ball, Blake, Clarke, Ray
Duffield, Spurr, Sutcliffe, DeBoer, Suban
Z.Jones, Butler, Membrey, Webster, Paton

[Jacks Back]

Pretty good comparisons. The only questionable one (I think) is Crouch although he does get plenty of it. All the rest look pretty good.

You've mentioned 15 players there. It's the other 7 players (for the 22) that are currently the problem - the bottom end, if you will. Owens, NWM, Clark, Coffield, Howard, Battle, McKenzie. Then there's Wood, Highmore, Sharman and Hayes.

Maybe it's not so bad after all. Maybe it's just a case of having a good run with injuries that can get us back in the finals - even winning a few.

[B.M]

I don’t think the list is as terrible as most are saying

Ryder is a loss

But it’s won 33 of the 61 games - which is not too bad

A better coach may have some effect, natural improvement another

I’m bullish - 6-8th is a possibility imo

[Teflon]

I don’t think the list is as terrible as most are saying

Ryder is a loss

But it’s won 33 of the 61 games - which is not too bad

A better coach may have some effect, natural improvement another

I’m bullish - 6-8th is a possibility imo

Coaches do nothing you told us
Overrated
Now they may have sone effect??
Me thinks you need to make up your mind
Btw - the depth now is better that what Lyon had before
6-8 is where this side should be now
Challenge is to go from that to genuine top 4 challenger

[desertsaint]

you forgot much maligned fullbacks
dawson
dawson
howard

[WellardSaint]

Geez comparing Windy to Clint Jones?
I know it's early days, but Jones had his limitations, and Windy (to this grumpy old fart) appears to be far more creative and skilful, and fills everyone with excitement.

Jones was the guy who made us cringe when he got the ball

[SinCitySainter]

Clint Jones was a guy who had his limitations, yes, but was one of the best shutdown run with players going around at the time.
This is a guy who worked on all his faults until he became an integral part of the team and played 149 games.
His kicking was dodgy and awkward but he learnt his limitations and didn't try to do anything more than handball and short safe kicks as his career progressed.
He was as hard as nails, even though he looked like he was in a boy band, and was completely uncompromising when given a task to perform.
The number of star players he completely shut out of the game while still collecting plenty of possessions should not be belittled.
I hope Windhager becomes a better player than Jones but at this stage he is no where near the standard Jones reached.

That comparison list really does show the problem the current side has.
The only category there where the current team definitely leads the other two is running back with Sinclair.
All the other categories they are either close or clearly behind.

[Trev from the Bush]

Geez comparing Windy to Clint Jones?
I know it's early days, but Jones had his limitations, and Windy (to this grumpy old fart) appears to be far more creative and skilful, and fills everyone with excitement.

Jones was the guy who made us cringe when he got the ball

Jones' only limitation was his kicking. A natural left-footer who looked like a natural right-footer kicking with his left foot. All the same, a terrific player for us.

[B.M]

Clint Jones was a gun - starting midfielder in an elite team

Unfashionable kick, but the best (along with Crowley) run with player in the competition

Not only that, in games he didn’t have to tag - he racked them up!!!

The year after he was delisted from StK with 150 games, he played VFL - and averaged over 40ppg!!!

And up until a few years ago he played WAFL and dominated

Very underrated player - because of his kicking

If Windhager has a better caree than Jones - he’ll have done well

[B.M]

Teflon

I never did say coaches are not important

Just that they are not solely responsible for results and ladder position

They have their place

Lyon is far better than Ratten - which will see this list probably win one more game and have a better percentage

But he will NOT make this lot great and contending

Only better players will do that

[bigcarl]

Geez comparing Windy to Clint Jones?
I know it's early days, but Jones had his limitations, and Windy (to this grumpy old fart) appears to be far more creative and skilful, and fills everyone with excitement.

Jones was the guy who made us cringe when he got the ball

Jones' only limitation was his kicking. A natural left-footer who looked like a natural right-footer kicking with his left foot. All the same, a terrific player for us.

He had a lot of high-possession games that Windhager hasn’t approached at this early stage. Not saying he won’t develop that, just that he hasn’t yet.

[Vortex]

When did King become elite?

And Steele and Crouh are now in the same conversation as Hayes and Goddard?

And Gresh and Higgins are anything but dangerous and are also now in the same conversation as Milne?

Someone has hacked B.M.s account.

[desertsaint]

add all those not mentioned - joey, baker, dempster, steven, kosi - not sure how they missed out, especially the first three.
it's good to see a positive post but there's a gulf between the two sides right now. and gresh and higgins are not even worth mentioning in the same breath as milne and schneids.

[skeptic]

Well how is Gresh even in a conversation about small forwards? Hasn’t played primarily as a FP for years

[Vortex]

Riewoldt
Hayes Norm Smith medalist
Goddard
Dal Santo
Montagna
Milne
Ball
Gardiner
Gram 2nd in Norm Smith Voting
Steve Baker
Koschitzke
Dempster

And so many AAs in that list.

There is absolutely no similarities between our current list and that list, in fact it's embarrassing to even put them next to each other. And so much onfield leadership with that list , our current list has almost zero leaders, on and off the ground.

Speaking of leadership Lyon also had these 3 blokes at his disposal for his first 2 seasons for onfield leadership and to drive standards:

Robert Harvey
Andrew Thomson
Fraser Gehrig

Lyon has virtually none of these types of player resources this time around.

Spin will increase towards R1 but brace yourself for a stint around bottom 4 while Lyon builds his team and expect players to depart who can't cop the Lyon method which is a good thing but they have to be replaced so my point is we are in a rebuild and it will take time....hence 4 year contract.

Good coach....a really poor list.

Same problem before Bassett used Ratts as a scapegoat to protect his Presidency.

[SydneySainter]

The list is pretty unsexy on paper. Has been for last decade, as our recruiting and development has been so shite.

But, if every man and his dog knows this, then Lyon would be under no illusions as to what he’s walked into.

[saynta]

The list is pretty unsexy on paper. Has been for last decade, as our recruiting and development has been so shite.

But, if every man and his dog knows this, then Lyon would be under no illusions as to what he’s walked into.

That's mainly because we kept recruiting over the hill hacks looking to boost their pensions, instead of young guns from the draft.

Short termfixers never work and it's something that Lyon was also guilty of. I hope he has learned his lesson.

[Vortex]

The list is pretty unsexy on paper. Has been for last decade, as our recruiting and development has been so shite.

But, if every man and his dog knows this, then Lyon would be under no illusions as to what he’s walked into.

1000% he's no dill.

That's why I say brace yourself for a stint around the bottom 4 because clearly he's been given a mandate to rebuild and many players have to be turned over. And as harsh as it is I expect players like Sharman to spend most of next year playing for Sandy before they are cut, RL won't cop VFL standard players.

[B.M]

Who should’ve been developed better?

[B.M]

Who were the ‘over the hill’ hacks?

[St Plugger]

And why is Sharman in the gun, without the preseason, let alone an AFL match played in '23 under RTB?

[Yorkeys]

And why is Sharman in the gun, without the preseason, let alone an AFL match played in '23 under RTB?

Of course he's not in the gun.
After having to work with forwards like Tabener, Ross probably can't believe his luck to have Sharman and King.

[Teflon]

Riewoldt
Hayes Norm Smith medalist
Goddard
Dal Santo
Montagna
Milne
Ball
Gardiner
Gram 2nd in Norm Smith Voting
Steve Baker
Koschitzke
Dempster

And so many AAs in that list.

There is absolutely no similarities between our current list and that list, in fact it's embarrassing to even put them next to each other. And so much onfield leadership with that list , our current list has almost zero leaders, on and off the ground.

Speaking of leadership Lyon also had these 3 blokes at his disposal for his first 2 seasons for onfield leadership and to drive standards:

Robert Harvey
Andrew Thomson
Fraser Gehrig

Lyon has virtually none of these types of player resources this time around.

Spin will increase towards R1 but brace yourself for a stint around bottom 4 while Lyon builds his team and expect players to depart who can't cop the Lyon method which is a good thing but they have to be replaced so my point is we are in a rebuild and it will take time....hence 4 year contract.

Good coach....a really poor list.

Same problem before Bassett used Ratts as a scapegoat to protect his Presidency.

Here we go again
Really poor list….just a terrible list….bottom 4 they’d have you believe…
Except….even this terrible list managed to sit 8-3 and comfortably in top 4 beating Cats along the way….atrocious list!!!
Reality????? Please
It’s a middle of road list - better than what Ratten delivered late in season but not top 4
It’s ironic that this list imo has better depth (but less stars) than what Lyon had last time round
Maybe that’s what attracted him…..his money ballers are already here….he needs to add some class…
Going to be intrigued watching him go to work

[Scollop]

Riewoldt
Hayes Norm Smith medalist
Goddard
Dal Santo
Montagna
Milne
Ball
Gardiner
Gram 2nd in Norm Smith Voting
Steve Baker
Koschitzke
Dempster

And so many AAs in that list.

There is absolutely no similarities between our current list and that list, in fact it's embarrassing to even put them next to each other. And so much onfield leadership with that list , our current list has almost zero leaders, on and off the ground.

Speaking of leadership Lyon also had these 3 blokes at his disposal for his first 2 seasons for onfield leadership and to drive standards:

Robert Harvey
Andrew Thomson
Fraser Gehrig

Lyon has virtually none of these types of player resources this time around.

Spin will increase towards R1 but brace yourself for a stint around bottom 4 while Lyon builds his team and expect players to depart who can't cop the Lyon method which is a good thing but they have to be replaced so my point is we are in a rebuild and it will take time....hence 4 year contract.

Good coach....a really poor list.

Same problem before Bassett used Ratts as a scapegoat to protect his Presidency.

Good post

Can you imagine how confused the diehard cult followers will be at the end of 2023 if we actually finish 12th or lower. We had several of our best players out for extended periods in 2022. If Lyon suffers the same sort of luck as Ratts there is every likelihoohd we miss finals again

Would have been a difficult sell for the President and Lethlean to tell the supporter base that we want new leadership to drive standards and ONLY a different coach can do that AND we don't care if we finish bottom 8 for the next 2 years. Bassat hinted that he doesn't mind if we go backwards for a temporary period, but he didn't actually say that the goal was to rebuild the list

If any guys like Howard, King, Hill, Jones or Seb Ross or Membrey miss due to mental health or 'other' personal reasons and if we have the same sort of injuries to key players during 2023 like we had with Marshall, Billings, Clark, DMac (easily top ten in best and fairest before his injuries) PLUS Gresham and Steele ....lookout below........................................................

[happy feet]

Riewoldt
Hayes Norm Smith medalist
Goddard
Dal Santo
Montagna
Milne
Ball
Gardiner
Gram 2nd in Norm Smith Voting
Steve Baker
Koschitzke
Dempster

And so many AAs in that list.

There is absolutely no similarities between our current list and that list, in fact it's embarrassing to even put them next to each other. And so much onfield leadership with that list , our current list has almost zero leaders, on and off the ground.

Speaking of leadership Lyon also had these 3 blokes at his disposal for his first 2 seasons for onfield leadership and to drive standards:

Robert Harvey
Andrew Thomson
Fraser Gehrig

Lyon has virtually none of these types of player resources this time around.

Spin will increase towards R1 but brace yourself for a stint around bottom 4 while Lyon builds his team and expect players to depart who can't cop the Lyon method which is a good thing but they have to be replaced so my point is we are in a rebuild and it will take time....hence 4 year contract.

Good coach....a really poor list.

Same problem before Bassett used Ratts as a scapegoat to protect his Presidency.

Good post

Can you imagine how confused the diehard cult followers will be at the end of 2023 if we actually finish 12th or lower. We had several of our best players out for extended periods in 2022. If Lyon suffers the same sort of luck as Ratts there is every likelihoohd we miss finals again

Would have been a difficult sell for the President and Lethlean to tell the supporter base that we want new leadership to drive standards and ONLY a different coach can do that AND we don't care if we finish bottom 8 for the next 2 years. Bassat hinted that he doesn't mind if we go backwards for a temporary period, but he didn't actually say that the goal was to rebuild the list

If any guys like Howard, King, Hill, Jones or Seb Ross or Membrey miss due to mental health or 'other' personal reasons and if we have the same sort of injuries to key players during 2023 like we had with Marshall, Billings, Clark, DMac (easily top ten in best and fairest before his injuries) PLUS Gresham and Steele ....lookout below........................................................

If I remember correctly our first year under Ross Lyon was pretty ordinary as players struggled to learn his game plan. I think the same might happen next year and with that the harbingers of doom who populate this forum, including you, will be in their glee as the knife all and sundry and hit us relentlessly with their own brand of poison.