Are we closer to…

[D.B.Cooper]

Our next Premiership

OR

Our next wooden spoon?

[Teflon]

Spoon
I think we’ll seriously get to a point where we realise that given we made choices to trade early picks in recent years to get ready made players in that our genuine A grade youth talent is light on and certainly not midfield strong.

It’s not all criticism - the club has done done good things eg recruiting Howard, Higgins, Ryder, Jones (when around) and grabbing Wilkie , Sharman and Hayes for steak knives has been good and probably outweighed the Hannerbury disaster. I back Gags in and if he has top picks I don’t think he’d stuff it like Trout…..reality is to get those picks you need to bottom out properly and we haven’t done that.
I truly can’t see how we are going to find a genuine Nick Daicos like mid to walk in….I love Bytel and co but don’t think he, Owens etc are of that ilk and the top sides at least have 1 or more A grade guns

[SunnyErnie]

Spoon
I think we’ll seriously get to a point where we realise that given we made choices to trade early picks in recent years to get ready made players in that our genuine A grade youth talent is light on and certainly not midfield strong.

It’s not all criticism - the club has done done good things eg recruiting Howard, Higgins, Ryder, Jones (when around) and grabbing Wilkie , Sharman and Hayes for steak knives has been good and probably outweighed the Hannerbury disaster. I back Gags in and if he has top picks I don’t think he’d stuff it like Trout…..reality is to get those picks you need to bottom out properly and we haven’t done that.
I truly can’t see how we are going to find a genuine Nick Daicos like mid to walk in….I love Bytel and co but don’t think he, Owens etc are of that ilk and the top sides at least have 1 or more A grade guns

We did bottom out. The problem is we squandered our draft picks.

2012 - 9th
2013 - 16th
2014 - wooden spoon
2015 - 14th

In the above 4 years we should have picked up at least 3 guns through the draft plus at least 3 "A" graders. But we failed miserably!!!!!

[mr six o'clock]

We're probably closer to finding out if D B Cooper got away with it than the answer to the flag/spoon conundrum !

[WellardSaint]

Closer to spoon.
Historically, we can't develop our draft picks all that well.
So our list is full of shoulda-coulda-woulda players.

Look at Carlton. Upward trajectory.
Everyone will advance and get better.
Our club won't.
So we'll drop

[cwrcyn]

It depends on these 18 players. Only one (Gresham) has reached their potential. In 18 months, we'll get a better picture of where we stand. Most of these players have shown they can play AFL. This year will be critical to their development. We can't declare the Spoon until we've seen more of them.

King
Byrnes
Connolly
Bytel
NWM
Owens
Windhager
Highmore
Adams
Allison
Heath
Sharman
Higgins
Clark
Coffield
Paton
Gresham
Battle

[MC Gusto]

Neither

I think we are closer to a continued period of nothing. Like Richmond’s endless years in 9th

We have the list to win games but we don’t have the list to win finals and premierships. So we won’t bottom out nor will we ever threat. It’s a sad period indeed

[spert]

Ratts probably has 5 more games to show we are improving over last season.

[Beno88]

Our next Premiership

OR

Our next wooden spoon?

I like the theory that we win one flag every 13.5 spoons.

[CURLY]

Closer to spoon.
Historically, we can't develop our draft picks all that well.
So our list is full of shoulda-coulda-woulda players.

Look at Carlton. Upward trajectory.
Everyone will advance and get better.
Our club won't.
So we'll drop

Yes look at Carlton. They've just traded and traded and traded. But that can't be a good thing right as they are brought players.

[Vortex]

I have been saying since early last season we are a fragile list with absolutely zero depth and our bottom 6 probably would struggle to get a game of AFL at all other 17 clubs. The list is a deck of cards and it only needs one or two key players to get injured or become unavailable due to recreational drugs or mental health problems for it to fall over.

We need that luck desperately to shine on us over the next 3 to 4 weeks because the moment it comes crashing down could only be a month away.

[meher baba]

The root cause of the problem seems simple to me: Nettlefold, Watters and Pelchen traded away what remained of our best talent after Lyon left, and recruited rubbish in return.

We have never fully recovered from that. Picking McCartin over Petracca also didn't help the situation.

In recent years, the management of the club has done a good job in building up a reasonable list. But they were starting from scratch, which they wouldn't have had to do if we hadn't been so badly run in the years immediately following 2011. So we are still a fair way off being a successful club again. How we went in the modified 2020 season was totally misleading. We don't yet have whhat we need to become a serious threat for a flag: and I'm not sure even the young players we recruited in the past couple of years have enough potential to get us there.

But we have to keep trying. Talk of getting rid of Ratten and bringing in Clarkson is just pipe dream stuff IMO. Clarkson went well at Hawthorn in the period of time he was there with the talent he had available to him. There's no guarantee that he could repeat that success at another club: look how well the ace Hawthorn recruiter Pelchen went when he came to us.

I think the club is in the best possible hands at the moment, both in terms of management and coaching. We simply don't have the cattle, especially in the midfield. If only we had Petracca, but it's no good crying over spilt milk.

I know it seems desperately unfair to expect St Kilda fans to have patience, but it's the only way we can go.

[Yorkeys]

True.
Nevertheless we played finals a couple of years ago, were absolutely and inexplicably appalling in several games last year, but still only just missed the 8. Just a waste of a year.
The Collingwood game is one we could just as easily won. And should have.
Pelchen et al did not make the selection of Kent. They did not force the impotent forward set up we have.
They did not send out a dysfunctional mid group - individually talented but poor as a collective.
They did not regress Sharman, who had world beating potential. Similarly Coffield?
Would love to know why those shockers last year and why the schoolboy errors of last Friday. But transparency is not a thing in AFL.

[D.B.Cooper]

The root cause of the problem seems simple to me: Nettlefold, Watters and Pelchen traded away what remained of our best talent after Lyon left, and recruited rubbish in return.

We have never fully recovered from that. Picking McCartin over Petracca also didn't help the situation.

In recent years, the management of the club has done a good job in building up a reasonable list. But they were starting from scratch, which they wouldn't have had to do if we hadn't been so badly run in the years immediately following 2011. So we are still a fair way off being a successful club again. How we went in the modified 2020 season was totally misleading. We don't yet have whhat we need to become a serious threat for a flag: and I'm not sure even the young players we recruited in the past couple of years have enough potential to get us there.

But we have to keep trying. Talk of getting rid of Ratten and bringing in Clarkson is just pipe dream stuff IMO. Clarkson went well at Hawthorn in the period of time he was there with the talent he had available to him. There's no guarantee that he could repeat that success at another club: look how well the ace Hawthorn recruiter Pelchen went when he came to us.

I think the club is in the best possible hands at the moment, both in terms of management and coaching. We simply don't have the cattle, especially in the midfield. If only we had Petracca, but it's no good crying over spilt milk.

I know it seems desperately unfair to expect St Kilda fans to have patience, but it's the only way we can go.

Agree wholeheartedly with this email.

The one question I have is did we recruit rubbish or did we just fail to properly develop the draft picks we brought into the club?

The McCartin decision will go down in history as one of the worst draft calls of all time.

Still Melbourne took Scully & Trengove ahead of Martin and look where they are now, perhaps there is light at the end of the rainbow

[Impatient Sainter]

Our recruitment and development will dictate where we go in the future. With the current group of younger players listed by Cwrcyn I cant see us bottoming out, but we still have significant holes in the list particularly through the midfield. Owens, NWM & Windhager might develop quicker than expected, but we still need to find elite dominant mids if we are going to climb the ladder.

Hannebery will be retired at seasons end and Gaggs should be going to Hill to take a pay cut. Either way I expect we are looking at attracting a quality uncontracted player from another club eg Bailey Smith, Josh Dunkley, Tanner Bruhn, Tim Taranto type player. Having another genuine quality mid will allow the younger players the time they need to develop their game.

We also need another ruckman to cover the hole Ryder will leave and it look like Tristian Xerri may still be on our radar?

The norm to win a flag is to have around 6 AA players - Marshall, King, Steele, Wilkie, ?, ?.

[shanegrambeau]

I have my excuses all lined up…
to say why we’ll be forever …like a North Melbourne almost team..


a) We are a minnow of a club
b) on the AFL financial drip
c) we will be a Sunday twilight team
d) we’ll play NZ, China, Tonga and Townsville
e) we might continue to find it hard to attract players

But then Melbourne and the Bulldogs show me I must be wrong or that those ideas are silly..and short sighted..

I couldn’t predict how we’d go in 2022, 4th or 14th both seemed possible..
One Collingwood game later, facing a trip to Perth…mmnn.

[Saintmatt]

The root cause of the problem seems simple to me: Nettlefold, Watters and Pelchen traded away what remained of our best talent after Lyon left, and recruited rubbish in return.

We have never fully recovered from that. Picking McCartin over Petracca also didn't help the situation.

In recent years, the management of the club has done a good job in building up a reasonable list. But they were starting from scratch, which they wouldn't have had to do if we hadn't been so badly run in the years immediately following 2011. So we are still a fair way off being a successful club again. How we went in the modified 2020 season was totally misleading. We don't yet have whhat we need to become a serious threat for a flag: and I'm not sure even the young players we recruited in the past couple of years have enough potential to get us there.

But we have to keep trying. Talk of getting rid of Ratten and bringing in Clarkson is just pipe dream stuff IMO. Clarkson went well at Hawthorn in the period of time he was there with the talent he had available to him. There's no guarantee that he could repeat that success at another club: look how well the ace Hawthorn recruiter Pelchen went when he came to us.

I think the club is in the best possible hands at the moment, both in terms of management and coaching. We simply don't have the cattle, especially in the midfield. If only we had Petracca, but it's no good crying over spilt milk.

I know it seems desperately unfair to expect St Kilda fans to have patience, but it's the only way we can go.

Beautifully put. You could add Archie Fraser is to that list of mis-managers as he was the douche that sent us to the ar3e end of Seaford. That move alone set us back a decade as we are seriously up against it when trying to recruit talent to the club.

[Scollop]

I know it seems desperately unfair to expect St Kilda fans to have patience, but it's the only way we can go.

That’s fair enough, but we just wish the hierarchy would stop pissing down our back and telling us it’s a rain cloud…They are the ones setting the expectations…if you know what I mean

[cwrcyn]

Melbourne
2018. Looked really good
2019 fell in a hole with injuries. Drafted Pickett, Rivers and Jackson. Trade for Langdon
2020. New fitness guy. Made some progress.
2021 Premiership


At th end of 2019, the media and their supporters were giving them a kicking. Funny how things can turn around

[Vortex]

Can we atleast now acknowledge our finals appearance in 2020 was misleading with regards to where the list is at and was merely the result of the slap and tickle in a Covid Cup year. Once the comp returned to full strength we were found out. Agree patients is going to be needed for a few more years until we can recruit a midfield.

[Banger9798]

The tragedy of Clark, Coffield and to some extent even Billings out is that they are all top 10 picks.

If, big if, but if they follow a decent trajectory, we get a whole lot better this year.
Clark with his jaw and now shoulder has been cruelled, he could genuinely be an A grader or close to, given a decent run at it.

[saynta]

Can we atleast now acknowledge our finals appearance in 2020 was misleading with regards to where the list is at and was merely the result of the slap and tickle in a Covid Cup year. Once the comp returned to full strength we were found out. Agree patients is going to be needed for a few more years until we can recruit a midfield.

[Yorkeys]

"Post by Vortex » Thu 24 Mar 2022 12:43pm

Can we atleast now acknowledge our finals appearance in 2020 was misleading with regards to where the list is at and was merely the result of the slap and tickle in a Covid Cup year. Once the comp returned to full strength we were found out. Agree patients is going to be needed for a few more years until we can recruit a midfield."

Nope.

Outstanding coaching feat that 2020 effort. Great effort by players too.

Patients are not needed for a few more years; we already have plenty of our own that are casualties. (see under headings: missing mids; how to recover form after long term injuries).

Midfield will be delivered by Star track in a month or so. Have patience.

[Killa]

The McCartin/Petracca “debate” is tiresome

Simply McCartin was a key forward

Petracca was a mid fielder

Where would McCartin be today free of injury?

We may now get some idea as he runs around in Sydney colours

Noting he is now playing in defence

Petracca took time to establish at AFL level

And post that time there have been swings and roundabouts

So if we had Petracca would we have put an offer to Steele?

Noting they are both big bodied mids

Who knows

Plus we Drafted Dunstan and Acres, both mids now at Melbourne and Fremantle respectively for the reasons they are

Simply, someone listed the names of players who are the future of our Club, along with those we will Draft and trade for over the next period

Players come in and players leave

That is the nature of the competition

And given that list referred to by another contributor I have referenced it is my view (and of those within the Club) that we are 2 years off

Subject to selective recruiting and development

The comments on development at St Kilda are also wide of the mark

Where we are just at present is that players from a period where we were not in contention remain in our side, noting the lack of contribution from the likes of McKenzie, Webster and Ross last Friday night

The reason these guys are in the side is injuries - injuries to the likes of Billings, Clark and Coffield (before you get to Jones, Ryder, Hannebery)

We have basically not been within 6/8 of a full strength 22 thru 2021 and now into 2022

And, in 2020, given Carlisle and Ryder we may have gone further post the win over the Western Bulldogs

Mind you we need some structure because we miss Carlisle and Ryder - is it there with the progress of Adams and Heath?

This is why the next 2 years will tell

So, instead of constant rubbishing on this site focus on the future and those the future is in the hands of

With Brett and his assembled team plus the administration we are in good hands

And a little luck would not go astray

[Zed]

If we had a decent run with injury with everyone available for a good chunk of the season, we could possibly get on a roll. But that won’t be this year with Coffield already gone , Jones and Ryder missing for weeks on end, and unlikely we will make it through unscathed with Covid protocols.

We don’t have the depth to cover injuries. I can’t recall the last time we had a good run with injuries , so by that logic , we are closer to a spoon than a flag.

Of the young ones, I can’t see Allison developing into a player. Too ear,y to tell if Mitch and Windy and Adams will be players, but statistically we will be lucky if just one of them becomes a regular in the side. The 2 rookies , I would guess are very long odds to make it.
I actually like the look of Heath from the little I’ve seen to date and I think NWM has the goods to make it.

Once again we rely on Clark and Coffield, King and Gresham to push into AA contention if we are to be a flag challenger. Big gaps in defence with Battle unfortunately never going to be one of the premier defenders, maybe Adams becomes that player, but our recent history with recruiting key defenders suggests he’s unlikely to be.