The extent of damage caused by having Elshaugh head of recruitment!

[Impatient Sainter]

Gees I hope he reads these articles and realises the extent of damage his incompetence has had on our club. He basically ensured our club would be a bottom 6 team for almost a decade after his departure. He was an absolute atrocious appointment by Finnis and Bains. Even now the club is still feeling the effects of the disastrous influence he had on recruitment.

Billings v Bontempelli
McCartin v Petracca

They are the just the obvious failures, but look at Trouts history and his disgraceful record runs deep into every years trading and drafts. He would have to go down as having overseen the worst trading/recruiting record of any list manager ever to work in the AFL?

https://www.afl.com.au/news/686913/he-w ... draft-pick

[Wayne42]

Thanks for the link.

[magnifisaint]

We were also stupid enough to employ a guy like Bains. What a waste of space he was.

[B.M]

In 2007 Patrick Dangerfield was taken the next pick after Ben McEvoy

Of course Judd was taken the next pick after Ball in 2001

[Trev from the Bush]

We were also stupid enough to employ a guy like Bains. What a waste of space he was.

Yeah! Look at how bad the Bulldogs are!

[Wayne42]

We were also stupid enough to employ a guy like Bains. What a waste of space he was.

Yeah! Look at how bad the Bulldogs are!

At the Saints Bains was meant to be St Kilda Football Club Chief Operating Officer and General Counsel but he got ahead of himself and thought he could be a List Manager/Recruiter as well.

I doubt the Bulldogs let him anywhere near List management after his complete failure in that area at the Saints.
He is employed at the Dogs as their Chief Executive Officer.

Some facts about Bains, notice how Recruiting and list management are not on the list.
1. Speaks three languages: English, Punjabi and Indonesian
2. Played with the Old Melburnians and Monash Blues in the VAFA
3. Has both a Bachelor of Business (Banking & Finance) and Bachelor of Laws from Monash University
4. Father, Harcharn came to Australia from India to study, before marrying Manjit and settling in Bendigo, where he was born and raised
5. His childhood sporting hero was former West Indian cricket captain Viv Richards

[Life Long Saint]

Billings v Bontempelli

FFS!
How many times must we bring this one up?
The top three of Boyd, Kelly, and Billings were obvious at the time.
Bontempelli was a total surprise at pick 4.
Inspired choice by the Dogs, but I have no doubt they'd have picked Billings if they had pick 3.

Hindsight drafting is the easiest game in town and also the most pointless.

[Impatient Sainter]

Billings v Bontempelli

FFS!
How many times must we bring this one up?
The top three of Boyd, Kelly, and Billings were obvious at the time.
Bontempelli was a total surprise at pick 4.
Inspired choice by the Dogs, but I have no doubt they'd have picked Billings if they had pick 3.

Hindsight drafting is the easiest game in town and also the most pointless.

The issue with our history is 'hindsight' is on a repeat loop. If the club doesn't learn from their past errors they will never improve.

IMO recruitment is the most important role at any club and you need to get most calls 100% right. It doesnt matter who the coaches or development staff are, if the players aren't up to it the club will never reach their ultimate goal.

Just as a side not did you read the article - it was the AFL who mentioned it! Also it achieves nothing suggesting that the Bulldogs would have taken Billings or Melbourne would have taken McCartin, we need to be the club getting those calls right not others!

[Life Long Saint]

Billings v Bontempelli

FFS!
How many times must we bring this one up?
The top three of Boyd, Kelly, and Billings were obvious at the time.
Bontempelli was a total surprise at pick 4.
Inspired choice by the Dogs, but I have no doubt they'd have picked Billings if they had pick 3.

Hindsight drafting is the easiest game in town and also the most pointless.

The issue with our history is 'hindsight' is on a repeat loop. If the club doesn't learn from their past errors they will never improve.

IMO recruitment is the most important role at any club and you need to get most calls 100% right. It doesnt matter who the coaches or development staff are, if the players aren't up to it the club will never reach their ultimate goal.

Just as a side not did you read the article - it was the AFL who mentioned it!

I read the article and the article is a glorified circle jerk typical of the crap we're subjected to in the off season. You're the one that reposted it with your own commentary. Don't back away from it.

I wonder had McCartin not suffered concussion after concussion if we'd be having this conversation.
Drafting a player is not an exact science. It never is. I'd honestly place more emphasis on player development than drafting.

Other than passing on Petracca, I think we've done OK with the players.
Billings is the best kick in our team but, in hindsight, I'd take the Bont in a heartbeat. But EVERY team would have taken Billings at 3. That doesn't mean our drafting/recruiting is poor.

Our player development really needs some work. We need to have total control over our VFL affiliate. We need to develop players to play our way and not worry about the result of the game.
Our players come to us with skills and we seem to allow them to lose them.
Sharman is a great set shot...I will be watching to see if I can pinpoint the time when his confidence in front of goal crumbles - like all our key forwards go through.

[axcellence]

In 2007 Patrick Dangerfield was taken the next pick after Ben McEvoy

Of course Judd was taken the next pick after Ball in 2001

X Clarke over Jimmy Bartel...

[spert]

I remember Paddy looking pretty ordinary in some games before concussion- had a good game in Tassie where he grabbed some big marks, but otherwise never really looked like he would be star. Good luck to him though.

[cwrcyn]

From 2006 to 2017 it was pretty horrible. The impact of that started to be felt in 2012

[Gershwin]

I remember Paddy looking pretty ordinary in some games before concussion- had a good game in Tassie where he grabbed some big marks, but otherwise never really looked like he would be star. Good luck to him though.

If I remember correctly, Petracca was looking pretty ordinary at that time too. There was plenty of time for Paddy to break-out had it not been for those terrible head knocks.

[Life Long Saint]

Funny that someone brought up the 2001 draft.
Our haul that year was...
Luke Ball, Xavier Clarke, Nick Dal Santo, Matt Maguire, Leigh Montagna, and Josh Houlihan.
All except Houlihan were very good players for us. I'm pretty happy with that list. I think that deserves an "A".
Injuries got hold of X in the end. Ball was totally mismanaged under Ross Lyon.

After Judd at 3, the picks prior to Bartel were:
Graham Polak, Xavier Clarke, Ashley Sampi, and David Hale.

Geelong nabbed Bartel, Kelly, and Stevie Johnson before they used pick 40 on G. Ablett in that draft thanks to the F/S rule at the time.
Under today's system, there's no way they get that list.

Hindsight drafting is the easiest game in town and a total waste of time playing it.

[Impatient Sainter]

Funny that someone brought up the 2001 draft.
Our haul that year was...
Luke Ball, Xavier Clarke, Nick Dal Santo, Matt Maguire, Leigh Montagna, and Josh Houlihan.
All except Houlihan were very good players for us. I'm pretty happy with that list. I think that deserves an "A".
Injuries got hold of X in the end. Ball was totally mismanaged under Ross Lyon.

After Judd at 3, the picks prior to Bartel were:
Graham Polak, Xavier Clarke, Ashley Sampi, and David Hale.

Geelong nabbed Bartel, Kelly, and Stevie Johnson before they used pick 40 on G. Ablett in that draft thanks to the F/S rule at the time.
Under today's system, there's no way they get that list.

Hindsight drafting is the easiest game in town and a total waste of time playing it.

If recruiting is that easy perhaps you should put your hand up? I doubt any of the kids would want to speak to you though, with that questionable attitude.

[Life Long Saint]

Funny that someone brought up the 2001 draft.
Our haul that year was...
Luke Ball, Xavier Clarke, Nick Dal Santo, Matt Maguire, Leigh Montagna, and Josh Houlihan.
All except Houlihan were very good players for us. I'm pretty happy with that list. I think that deserves an "A".
Injuries got hold of X in the end. Ball was totally mismanaged under Ross Lyon.

After Judd at 3, the picks prior to Bartel were:
Graham Polak, Xavier Clarke, Ashley Sampi, and David Hale.

Geelong nabbed Bartel, Kelly, and Stevie Johnson before they used pick 40 on G. Ablett in that draft thanks to the F/S rule at the time.
Under today's system, there's no way they get that list.

Hindsight drafting is the easiest game in town and a total waste of time playing it.

If recruiting is that easy perhaps you should put your hand up? I doubt any of the kids would want to speak to you though, with that questionable attitude.

What???

[evertonfc]

We were also stupid enough to employ a guy like Bains. What a waste of space he was.

It was a brutal period of incompetence where the board made a series of extraordinarily poor decisions that filtered into who led the administration, who selected poor football staff and who eventually drafted/selected the playing group.

We're paying such a deep price for all that now. It's a savage reality; I'm not convinced the club is acutely aware of exactly how poor it was in these departments; moreover, how it manifested into the mess we have today.

Broadly speaking, I'm sure we're kinda on the way up as a result of having lots of kids over the past 6-7 years, but we should have been on the way up from about 2013-2014, with a huge swag of members and sponsors clamouring to get on board. It's a lost decade, by almost every metric.

We're really on the clock to perform now, on and off the field, in every department. With footy set to change again in the next 20 years, we genuinely can't afford another decade like the one we've just had.

[scallopsroe]

We were also stupid enough to employ a guy like Bains. What a waste of space he was.

It was a brutal period of incompetence where the board made a series of extraordinarily poor decisions that filtered into who led the administration, who selected poor football staff and who eventually drafted/selected the playing group.

We're paying such a deep price for all that now. It's a savage reality; I'm not convinced the club is acutely aware of exactly how poor it was in these departments; moreover, how it manifested into the mess we have today.

Broadly speaking, I'm sure we're kinda on the way up as a result of having lots of kids over the past 6-7 years, but we should have been on the way up from about 2013-2014, with a huge swag of members and sponsors clamouring to get on board. It's a lost decade, by almost every metric.

We're really on the clock to perform now, on and off the field, in every department. With footy set to change again in the next 20 years, we genuinely can't afford another decade like the one we've just had.

100%, no more stuff ups with huge egos interfering with logical and common-sense off field football decisions. Can't afford any repeat of the 2011-2019 period.

[shanegrambeau]

What about Gold Coast's loss of Greenwood today? De-listed on a promise? Poached in a flash.

[Life Long Saint]

What about Gold Coast's loss of Greenwood today? De-listed on a promise? Poached in a flash.

That is a risk that clubs take when they have to delist players because of the rule of using a certain number of draft selections.
It opens up the opportunity for rival clubs to throw a bigger contract at the player and a spot on the senior list.

[samuraisaint]

What about Gold Coast's loss of Greenwood today? De-listed on a promise? Poached in a flash.

That is a risk that clubs take when they have to delist players because of the rule of using a certain number of draft selections.
It opens up the opportunity for rival clubs to throw a bigger contract at the player and a spot on the senior list.

That decision is going to put their young midfield under a ton of pressure in 2022.
I cannot see them rising out of the bottom six now. Greenwood's tackling pressure keeps the Suns in games.

[Life Long Saint]

That decision is going to put their young midfield under a ton of pressure in 2022.
I cannot see them rising out of the bottom six now. Greenwood's tackling pressure kept the Suns in games.

Edited for accuracy