Is this our best ruck combo...

[skeptic]

Since Everite and Vidovic?

Hard to think of a better one. Obviously Vids didn’t make it past 1997, and we had Everite with Cook. No idea what happened to Cook but he wasn’t around for long.

I think Elliot and Monkhorst came and went... neither anywhere near Spider’s caliber.

Stewart Loewe and David Sierakowski were the pinch hitters... Buckets on the way down, Siera would hit his stride in his final year with us before leaving to go to WCE in 01 where he did his knee which ended his career prematurely

Capuano was next before he was shown up by Matt Maguire and Jason Blake after he was pantsed by a young Josh Fraser.

Then... and I’m iffy with the time line, I think Trent Knobel came and had a brief crossover period with Spider before Everite was out and in came Barry Brooks.

Brooks looked promising early before he did his knee and ended up a shell of the player he promised to be.

Knobel had a respectable 2004 with us alternating with a young Justin Koschitzke but Trent left and Cain Ackland came on board.

Cain had a decent 05 and was pretty much unsighted for the rest of his career whilst Rix Rox Rucks was rucking it up in the aftermath

Matty Clarke came... Matty Clarke left then came Michael Gardiner and Steven King... that’s pbly our third best combination. King was nothing special for us but Gardiner had a blistering patch in 09 before falling away late in the season...
Seems like the pattern with Saints rucks... never in their best in the big finals games.

King left. McEvoy came on board... great contested mark but struggled something shocking in the hitouts whilst Gardener began to have trouble around getting a kick.

McEvoy tried doing it on his own or was like our only decent choice for a while... then arrived Hickey, and later Longer.

Tom started slowly and made the spot his own around 2016 with an excellent season before suddenly becoming very timid until he started playing for Sydney 5 years late.
Longer did some incredible blocking work which was praised by many before a concussion ended his career.

After all of Hickey, Longer and the other guy went down... and in between rucking support from Bruce, and Acres at one point Marshall categorically stamped the position as his own until Ryder came up and they became the dynamic duo.

This turned into a bit of an exercise for me (started the thread wanting to ask about these team vs the 97 guys)... but it’s really really highlighted just how long it’s taken us to get our stuff together in the ruck. We’ve barely had two good ruck man on the list at the one time for almost 24 years minus the Gardener/King time but that was really more about Michael than it was King.

Boy I really hope they have a contingency plan for Ryder because whilst Marshall is a long termer, he’s pbly got another year... 2 at most and I reckon weve really underestimated the value of an excellent ruck combination for a long time

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Michael Rix says hello.

[WellardSaint]

Have a look at my 'Skunk 14 marks' post.

These 2 ruckmen have stretched teams, because IMHO they have to cover them not just with their own rucks and tall defenders, but they need their mids nearby to sweep the ball away if it gets spoilt.

So our guys can either kick to Paddy, Roma, or go to another saint on his own or one-on-one; because the oppo playmakers aren't in that spot.
It means we have extra options, the luxury of choice.
The old 'stretching their defence' thing.
Last night, Lachy Neale didn't seem to get much of the ball, possibly because he was a bit lost cos his support network was thinly spread?

[oboe]

Best since the trio of MacIntosh, Ditterich, and Mynott, and that was back in 71.

[Scollop]

......

Gardiner had a blistering patch in 09 before falling away late in the season...

Have a guess what comes to my mind when someone posts something to do with our top players 'falling away late' in 2009?

That's right! Mr Lyon was hellbent on winning his first McLelland trophy and he thrashed the proverbial ferrari when it was a lap in front

Gee that finish line was damn close. Gee it would have been good if Gramm and Dal Santo and Gardiner were in ripping form in September... and not for bloody round 17

[Scollop]

Obviously Paddy is elite at his ruck craft, and I love the fact that both Paddy and RoMa are excellent around the ground and provide clearances and are pretty good defensively as well

Paddy is really respected among the playing group and they look up to him for his knowledge and his experience as well as his total professionalism.

It is this commitment to paly at his best week in week out, that separates Paddy from other players. He is a great role model for the youngsters and for RoMa

[Vortex]

Since Everite and Vidovic?

Hard to think of a better one. Obviously Vids didn’t make it past 1997, and we had Everite with Cook. No idea what happened to Cook but he wasn’t around for long.

I think Elliot and Monkhorst came and went... neither anywhere near Spider’s caliber.

Stewart Loewe and David Sierakowski were the pinch hitters... Buckets on the way down, Siera would hit his stride in his final year with us before leaving to go to WCE in 01 where he did his knee which ended his career prematurely

Capuano was next before he was shown up by Matt Maguire and Jason Blake after he was pantsed by a young Josh Fraser.

Then... and I’m iffy with the time line, I think Trent Knobel came and had a brief crossover period with Spider before Everite was out and in came Barry Brooks.

Brooks looked promising early before he did his knee and ended up a shell of the player he promised to be.

Knobel had a respectable 2004 with us alternating with a young Justin Koschitzke but Trent left and Cain Ackland came on board.

Cain had a decent 05 and was pretty much unsighted for the rest of his career.

Matty Clarke came... Matty Clarke left then came Michael Gardiner and Steven King... that’s pbly our third best combination. King was nothing special for us but Gardiner had a blistering patch in 09 before falling away late in the season...
Seems like the pattern with Saints rucks... never in their best in the big finals games.

King left. McEvoy came on board... great contested mark but struggled something shocking in the hitouts whilst Gardener began to have trouble around getting a kick.

McEvoy tried doing it on his own or was like our only decent choice for a while... then arrived Hickey, and later Longer.

Tom started slowly and made the spot his own around 2016 with an excellent season before suddenly becoming very timid until he started playing for Sydney 5 years late.
Longer did some incredible blocking work which was praised by many before a concussion ended his career.

After all of Hickey, Longer and the other guy went down... and in between rucking support from Bruce, and Acres at one point Marshall categorically stamped the position as his own until Ryder came up and they became the dynamic duo.

This turned into a bit of an exercise for me (started the thread wanting to ask about these team vs the 97 guys)... but it’s really really highlighted just how long it’s taken us to get our stuff together in the ruck. We’ve barely had two good ruck man on the list at the one time for almost 24 years minus the Gardener/King time but that was really more about Michael than it was King.

Boy I really hope they have a contingency plan for Ryder because whilst Marshall is a long termer, he’s pbly got another year... 2 at most and I reckon weve really underestimated the value of an excellent ruck combination for a long time

That's actually a pretty good and concise summary of our ruck history. The combo is the best in my time of following the club.

I've been thinking about this a bit too and agree the urgency of a contingency plan to replace Paddy. You can't get a bigger endorsement than Jack Steele acknowledging he is a better midfielder because of Paddy's ruck craft. Makes me wonder if it is accelerating the development of Byrnes.

The fascinating part is how does the club go about recruiting a replacement. Not easy, probably and the hardest position to recruit for and probably one of the most challenging times for recruitment.

Any suggestions?

[perfectionist]

Lazar and Spider were the best in 1997 because they complimented each other. After taking a centre bounce, Lazar would drop back and play as a sweeper. After taking a centre bounce, Spider would run forward to take a contested mark from the same move forward. Not many have been able to do that. And, he was such a good kick at over 60% accuracy. Had both played in 1997 we would have won by a mile. RoMa comes close to Spider and we are yet to see his best - which could be anything - if he gets and stays fit. He is only half fit at the moment as a result of his foot problems. Paddy was at his peak last year but while not far off this year is showing signs of reaching the end.

The weather dulled our contested marking advantage in 2009 which was on display at Docklands earlier that year against Geelong. In 2010 GF1, people forget that Michael Gardiner did his hammy and was off well before half time (we still won the hitouts). He would have been handy in the last quarter. Of course, he didn't play in GF2 so that game was lost 1 second after the siren sounded in GF1. Collingwood had blown their chances in GF1 but weren't going to do it again especially with a dominant ruck where Jolly played the game of his life (35 hitouts to Ben's 10).

[SaintDippa]

Step further. Best centre square combo we've had in years. First time we've had Ryder/Marshall with Steele/Jones/Dunstan/Crouch/Ross in the square.
Huge difference to clearance or opposition pressure if they take possession. Hopefully all can stay injury free.

[saynta]

Since Everite and Vidovic?

Hard to think of a better one. Obviously Vids didn’t make it past 1997, and we had Everite with Cook. No idea what happened to Cook but he wasn’t around for long.

I think Elliot and Monkhorst came and went... neither anywhere near Spider’s caliber.

Stewart Loewe and David Sierakowski were the pinch hitters... Buckets on the way down, Siera would hit his stride in his final year with us before leaving to go to WCE in 01 where he did his knee which ended his career prematurely

Capuano was next before he was shown up by Matt Maguire and Jason Blake after he was pantsed by a young Josh Fraser.

Then... and I’m iffy with the time line, I think Trent Knobel came and had a brief crossover period with Spider before Everite was out and in came Barry Brooks.

Brooks looked promising early before he did his knee and ended up a shell of the player he promised to be.

Knobel had a respectable 2004 with us alternating with a young Justin Koschitzke but Trent left and Cain Ackland came on board.

Cain had a decent 05 and was pretty much unsighted for the rest of his career.

Matty Clarke came... Matty Clarke left then came Michael Gardiner and Steven King... that’s pbly our third best combination. King was nothing special for us but Gardiner had a blistering patch in 09 before falling away late in the season...
Seems like the pattern with Saints rucks... never in their best in the big finals games.

King left. McEvoy came on board... great contested mark but struggled something shocking in the hitouts whilst Gardener began to have trouble around getting a kick.

McEvoy tried doing it on his own or was like our only decent choice for a while... then arrived Hickey, and later Longer.

Tom started slowly and made the spot his own around 2016 with an excellent season before suddenly becoming very timid until he started playing for Sydney 5 years late.
Longer did some incredible blocking work which was praised by many before a concussion ended his career.

After all of Hickey, Longer and the other guy went down... and in between rucking support from Bruce, and Acres at one point Marshall categorically stamped the position as his own until Ryder came up and they became the dynamic duo.

This turned into a bit of an exercise for me (started the thread wanting to ask about these team vs the 97 guys)... but it’s really really highlighted just how long it’s taken us to get our stuff together in the ruck. We’ve barely had two good ruck man on the list at the one time for almost 24 years minus the Gardener/King time but that was really more about Michael than it was King.

Boy I really hope they have a contingency plan for Ryder because whilst Marshall is a long termer, he’s pbly got another year... 2 at most and I reckon weve really underestimated the value of an excellent ruck combination for a long time

Showing my age but Morrow/Ditterich and Ditterich/ Mynott were pretty f****** good. Can't remember who partnered Sarau but he was a tough hard, but good Ruckman.

[George27]

Best since the trio of MacIntosh, Ditterich, and Mynott, and that was back in 71.

Yep - and sadly the injury to McIntosh in 71 cost us a flag, ditto the injuries to Everitt and Vidovic in 97 ( and arguably the injury to Paddy in 2020)

[shanegrambeau]

Great summary Skeptic. Love it.

Best combo I've seen.

Not quite Shane Grambeau and his plucky side-kick Jeff Sarau but pretty good. lol.

Everitt had that exquisite tap/touch and the thumping kick and good grab, but was undisciplined - or was that his bad boy image?

I almost forgot about Stephen King. What happened there?

Bryan Mynott was said to be fantastic too. I think I may have seen him play only at the end of his career.

Yes, Marshall and Paddy Wack are the best for decades, not only at St Kilda, but surely across the league.

[B.M]

Spider was outstanding- a 3 time AA ruckman

Vidovic’s legend has grown - he was a GOP who played as many reserves games as senior games. In fact he only played 90 games in 9 seasons at StK.
In that year where he got injured and was a ‘huge loss’ he actually only played 7 games.

Marshall and Ryder are probably our only A Grade duo since Saru and Sidebottom - who were effectively followers/ruck rovers

Prior to that we had Ditterich/Morrow/Mynott

[bergsone]

Morrow.Ditterich.Mynott great combo.But really happy with the 2 we have now,my concern is when Ryder is no longer there are we developing a ruck capable of stepping up.I know we have Heath just want the work put into him to make it next year if needed.No more Hunter,McKernan types

[B.M]

Hunter and McKernan have been recruiting mistakes

[stkfc1]

Apparently young Max Heath played a blinder with the Sandy Dragons on the weekend.
Dominated the ruck and kicked a couple of sausage rolls.

[skeptic]

Michael Rix says hello.

Edited

[skeptic]

This thread is making me realise just how much we’ve undervalued ruck stocks/depth and for how long

Boy GT was really ahead of his time when he said it’s pointless having mediocre rucks on the ground that just compete in the hitouts and do SFA else.

Clearly a lesson we didn’t grasp as we’ve had 3 decent ones since 2004 and 2 of them are on the list now

[Ape_Man]

Best I have seen.

Just 1 of them can lift the midfield. Together they lift the team.

[SaintPav]

Great summary Skeptic. Love it.

Best combo I've seen.

Not quite Shane Grambeau and his plucky side-kick Jeff Sarau but pretty good. lol.

Everitt had that exquisite tap/touch and the thumping kick and good grab, but was undisciplined - or was that his bad boy image?

I almost forgot about Stephen King. What happened there?

Bryan Mynott was said to be fantastic too. I think I may have seen him play only at the end of his career.

Yes, Marshall and Paddy Wack are the best for decades, not only at St Kilda, but surely across the league.

Pup was a very underrated ruckman, particularly for his size.

[SaintPav]

Spider was outstanding- a 3 time AA ruckman

Vidovic’s legend has grown - he was a GOP who played as many reserves games as senior games. In fact he only played 90 games in 9 seasons at StK.
In that year where he got injured and was a ‘huge loss’ he actually only played 7 games.

Marshall and Ryder are probably our only A Grade duo since Saru and Sidebottom - who were effectively followers/ruck rovers

Prior to that we had Ditterich/Morrow/Mynott

He was better than Brett Cook and would have been handy in the grand final.

[SaintPav]

......

Gardiner had a blistering patch in 09 before falling away late in the season...

Have a guess what comes to my mind when someone posts something to do with our top players 'falling away late' in 2009?

That's right! Mr Lyon was hellbent on winning his first McLelland trophy and he thrashed the proverbial ferrari when it was a lap in front

Gee that finish line was damn close. Gee it would have been good if Gramm and Dal Santo and Gardiner were in ripping form in September... and not for bloody round 17

Gram and Dal were injured towards the end of 2010.

[Scollop]

......

Gardiner had a blistering patch in 09 before falling away late in the season...

Have a guess what comes to my mind when someone posts something to do with our top players 'falling away late' in 2009?

That's right! Mr Lyon was hellbent on winning his first McLelland trophy and he thrashed the proverbial ferrari when it was a lap in front

Gee that finish line was damn close. Gee it would have been good if Gramm and Dal Santo and Gardiner were in ripping form in September... and not for bloody round 17

Gram and Dal were injured towards the end of 2010.

Ho did Dal go in the 2009 Grand Final?

[SaintPav]

......

Gardiner had a blistering patch in 09 before falling away late in the season...

Have a guess what comes to my mind when someone posts something to do with our top players 'falling away late' in 2009?

That's right! Mr Lyon was hellbent on winning his first McLelland trophy and he thrashed the proverbial ferrari when it was a lap in front

Gee that finish line was damn close. Gee it would have been good if Gramm and Dal Santo and Gardiner were in ripping form in September... and not for bloody round 17

Gram and Dal were injured towards the end of 2010.

Ho did Dal go in the 2009 Grand Final?

I think he was quiet because he was blanketed by Ling.

I wasn't debating your main point by the way. I just think you got your years mixed up pedant that I am.

I think our main problem was that we peaked too early in the season and teams figured us out. Unlike in 2021 where we are timing our run perfectly.

[Scollop]

Yes. Timing is everything

Did you put that cheeky $100 on us a few weeks ago