Shocking Records against Opponents

[samuraisaint]

A few things really need to change if we are going to be taken seriously as a football club. Our records against several of our opponents are dead set ordinary. Here are the worst:

Only 18 wins against Essendon since 1981.

Only 18 wins against Geelong since 1981.

Only 19 wins against Hawthorn since 1980.

Only 21 wins against Collingwood since 1977.

Only 24 wins against North Melbourne since 1979.

We really need to start performing a bit better regularly against these five sides if we want to perform regularly in finals.

[shanegrambeau]

Beating both Adelaide teams in 2020 quenched a thirst somewhat.

But the pesky teams, North Melbourne and Melbourne irk me...

Then much to hate about Essendon, Carlton and West Coast.

Finally, Geelong.

They round out the top six teams it would be most satisfying to beat in 2021, not knowing their form so far.

On ESPN, three out three 'experts' believe we will finish lower in '21 than in '20.

[ausfatcat]

pretty sure we won like a combine 2 games in the 80'sw hat are the stats of win loss since the 90's? do you know?

[samuraisaint]

pretty sure we won like a combine 2 games in the 80'sw hat are the stats of win loss since the 90's? do you know?

Good question - and yes I do - and it is still pretty p1$$ poor reading:

Only 18 wins against Essendon since 1990

Only 15 wins against Geelong since 1990

Only 19 wins against Hawthorn since 1990

Only 19 wins against Collingwood since 1990

Only 20 wins against North Melbourne since 1990

Only 16 wins against West Coast Eagles since 1990

Only 16 wins against Adelaide since 1991

Not a great return for thirty seasons is it?

[samuraisaint]

Beating both Adelaide teams in 2020 quenched a thirst somewhat.

But the pesky teams, North Melbourne and Melbourne irk me...

Then much to hate about Essendon, Carlton and West Coast.

Finally, Geelong.

They round out the top six teams it would be most satisfying to beat in 2021, not knowing their form so far.

On ESPN, three out three 'experts' believe we will finish lower in '21 than in '20.

But we have had stunning form reversals against Carlton and Melbourne this century. We need to replicate these against the sides I posted about in the OP. Good sides win consistently.

[ausfatcat]

thanks for looking those up Samurai, they didn't change much for a few of them did they.

[Wayne42]

Because we are no longer guaranteed to play each team twice per season it would have been good to know how many times we'd played each of those teams
for the the amount of wins mentioned in the OP.

[samuraisaint]

Because we are no longer guaranteed to play each team twice per season it would have been good to know how many times we'd played each of those teams
for the the amount of wins mentioned in the OP.

Sure - here goes:

Against Essendon - Won 18 - Lost 41 - Winning % = 30%

Against Geelong - Won 18 - Lost 45 - Drawn 1 - Winning % = 28%

Against Hawthorn - Won 19 - Lost 42 - Drawn 1 - Winning % = 30%

Against Collingwood - Won 21 - Lost 48 - Drawn 2 - Winning % = 29%

Against North Melbourne - Won 24 -Lost 42 - Drawn 1- Winning % = 35%

Pretty ordinary, isn't it?

[SaintPav]

Interesting.

What are the winning percentages?

At a guess, it's low 30s.

[samuraisaint]

Interesting.

What are the winning percentages?

At a guess, it's low 30s.

Done. And it's lower than that in some cases.

[SaintPav]

Beating both Adelaide teams in 2020 quenched a thirst somewhat.

But the pesky teams, North Melbourne and Melbourne irk me...

Then much to hate about Essendon, Carlton and West Coast.

Finally, Geelong.

They round out the top six teams it would be most satisfying to beat in 2021, not knowing their form so far.

On ESPN, three out three 'experts' believe we will finish lower in '21 than in '20.

Melbourne?

That is one team we have definitely dominated since 2007.

[samuraisaint]

Beating both Adelaide teams in 2020 quenched a thirst somewhat.

But the pesky teams, North Melbourne and Melbourne irk me...

Then much to hate about Essendon, Carlton and West Coast.

Finally, Geelong.

They round out the top six teams it would be most satisfying to beat in 2021, not knowing their form so far.

On ESPN, three out three 'experts' believe we will finish lower in '21 than in '20.

Melbourne?

That is one team we have definitely dominated since 2007.

Won 17 - Lost 4 - Winning % = 81%

[SaintPav]

Interesting.

What are the winning percentages?

At a guess, it's low 30s.

Done. And it's lower than that in some cases.

Thanks.

It is ordinary, very ordinary but not that surprising against successful teams.

I think we have only beaten Geelong once in ten years. A truly diabolical record.

Even if we do well over the next 5 years, those percentages won't change that much.

[samuraisaint]

Interesting.

What are the winning percentages?

At a guess, it's low 30s.

Done. And it's lower than that in some cases.

Thanks.

It is ordinary, very ordinary but not that surprising against successful teams.

I think we have only beaten Geelong once in ten years. A truly diabolical record.

Even if we do well over the next 5 years, those percentages won't change that much.

I think they can - if we do well. Some of the clubs, such as Essendon, Hawthorn and North Melbourne, do appear to be facing a period of substantial list regenerations.
But we have to actually turn up against them as well. As well as the Melbourne form revearsal, take a glance at our results against another glamour club, Carlton:

Our winning % against Carlton overall was 15% in 2001. We won only 18 games between our two clubs out of our first 120 matches!
We have now beaten them in 22 of our previous 28 matches since 2002.
It is now 27% - a stunning form reversal! Almost doubled 104 years of $h1t results in only 19 years.

[kosifantutti]

How does losing to Collingwood in 1977 have any impact in 2021?

[samuraisaint]

How does losing to Collingwood in 1977 have any impact in 2021?

I will answer that with another question. How did we fare against them last year? And in 2019? and 2018? What's changed?

We need to start turning up against them, and against sides like North Melbourne too. There is a mentality persisting at the moment and it needs to be eradicated.

A lot has been said about our results interstate, but our historical form over forty seasons against some of our local rival clubs is just as bad.

[kosifantutti]

How did we fare against Port and Adelaide and Sydney?

We need to win every game. Looking back to the 70s is pointless.

We won 11 of 19 last year, I wouldn’t go back any further than that.

[samuraisaint]

How did we fare against Port and Adelaide and Sydney?

We need to win every game. Looking back to the 70s is pointless.

We won 11 of 19 last year, I wouldn’t go back any further than that.

It was a very unusual season though - last year was a definite outlier - in absolutely every sense.

And who did we lose those eight games to?

I think we will be a super team in 2021 myself, but we need to beat sides like Collingwood, Geelong and North Melbourne to improve, and make a prelim. And we haven't been able to beat those sides (apart from very occasionally) for ten years.

My OP is just my own musings on how the team and club, despite many physical, personnel and cultural changes, have been unable to bridge the gap, and that my club still play other teams as if we were still living in 1979 trudging out to Victoria Park, Arden Street, Princes Park, wherever, with sub-par teams. The games last year against North, Geelong and Collingwood illustrate my point perfectly.

[SaintPav]

Interesting.

What are the winning percentages?

At a guess, it's low 30s.

Done. And it's lower than that in some cases.

Thanks.

It is ordinary, very ordinary but not that surprising against successful teams.

I think we have only beaten Geelong once in ten years. A truly diabolical record.

Even if we do well over the next 5 years, those percentages won't change that much.

I think they can - if we do well. Some of the clubs, such as Essendon, Hawthorn and North Melbourne, do appear to be facing a period of substantial list regenerations.
But we have to actually turn up against them as well. As well as the Melbourne form revearsal, take a glance at our results against another glamour club, Carlton:

Our winning % against Carlton overall was 15% in 2001. We won only 18 games between our two clubs out of our first 120 matches!
We have now beaten them in 22 of our previous 28 matches since 2002.
It is now 27% - a stunning form reversal! Almost doubled 104 years of $h1t results in only 19 years.

Yep, sure but we may improve our winning percentage against those teams but it wouldn't mean much if they are around the bottom, like we have against a struggling Carlton.

We could also win the next 3 flags and those percentages may not change that much.

We need to be winning finals and grand finals. The opposition is irrelevant.

Interesting conversation.

[samuraisaint]

Interesting.

What are the winning percentages?

At a guess, it's low 30s.

Done. And it's lower than that in some cases.

Thanks.

It is ordinary, very ordinary but not that surprising against successful teams.

I think we have only beaten Geelong once in ten years. A truly diabolical record.

Even if we do well over the next 5 years, those percentages won't change that much.

I think they can - if we do well. Some of the clubs, such as Essendon, Hawthorn and North Melbourne, do appear to be facing a period of substantial list regenerations.
But we have to actually turn up against them as well. As well as the Melbourne form revearsal, take a glance at our results against another glamour club, Carlton:

Our winning % against Carlton overall was 15% in 2001. We won only 18 games between our two clubs out of our first 120 matches!
We have now beaten them in 22 of our previous 28 matches since 2002.
It is now 27% - a stunning form reversal! Almost doubled 104 years of $h1t results in only 19 years.

Yep, sure but we may improve our winning percentage against those teams but it wouldn't mean much if they are around the bottom, like we have against a struggling Carlton.

We could also win the next 3 flags and those percentages may not change that much.

We need to be winning finals and grand finals. The opposition is irrelevant.

Interesting conversation.

Agreed. And we have started winning finals. Hopefully we can start winning Grand Finals next (and not just draw them)

[shanegrambeau]

Looking back is kinda satisfying and interesting.

We are irrational beasts...footy fans...

To beat Melbourne and North (and even Fremantle for that matter) will sooth my soul a bit.

The players don't even have to be born when GT and sirengate happened to feel the vibe of beating Freo..because they will pick up the vibe from me in Japan.

The stories and narratives and metaphors are burned into our brains and they are sensed and imprinted onto future supporters...and current players know when we are satisfied and pissed off...

They were fans once..

These appalling stats...I mean Geelong, 18 wins and 45 losses..my gosh! ...come as really odd. Because in the AFL we have been quite OK...48-49% win ratio...since the AFL system started, So these losses to Geelong stand out all the more.

Makes me wonder about the coaching and organizational philosophies of the two clubs..

Since 2000...

(Grant Thomas + Ross Lyon + Messers Watters, Richardson and Ratten) + two changes of home grounds none of which have been played on for premiership points.

vs just

Bomber and Chris Scott and one ground, one base and a sh*t load of home games on it.

..and of course since 1990 it is just as bad...We have had 14 coaches since the AFL began. 3 Home grounds, 2 training bases (so two disruptive changes) They had Ayres, Blight, Bomber and Scott...all with fanatstic records. (many don't appreciate that Gary Ayres had a 56% win rate with them)

[samuraisaint]

Looking back is kinda satisfying and interesting.

We are irrational beasts...footy fans...

To beat Melbourne and North (and even Fremantle for that matter) will sooth my soul a bit.

The players don't even have to be born when GT and sirengate happened to feel the vibe of beating Freo.

The stories and narratives and metaphors are burned into our brains and they are sensed and imprinted onto future supporters...and current players know when we are satisfied and pissed off...

They were fans once..

These appalling stats...I mean Geelong, 18 wins and 45 losses..my gosh! ...come as really odd. Because in the AFL we have been quite OK...48-49% win ratio...since the AFL system started, So these losses to Geelong stand out all the more.

Makes me wonder about the coaching and organizational philosophies of the two clubs..

(Grant Thomas + Ross Lyon + Messers Watters, Richardson and Ratten) + two changes of home grounds none of which have been played on for premiership points.

vs just

Bomber and Chris Scott and one ground, one base and a sh*t load of home games on it.

Can't see the Geelong results turning around in the short-mid term. But our win-loss ratio against North, Essendon and Hawthorn will, I should think. We play our games against those sides at Docklands for the most part, and we're hard to beat there, and those clubs will be rebuilding from this season, whereas we're on the way up.

[To the top]

I recall Princes Park and beating Hawthorn

The Gold Pass had private boxes and the celebrations continued because it was our first win at Princes Park in so many years it was not funny - and they all knew the record at that ground including Meldrum who lost his hat in the aftermath

But it is now 2021

And you are only ever as good as your last game

[Wayne42]

Because we are no longer guaranteed to play each team twice per season it would have been good to know how many times we'd played each of those teams
for the the amount of wins mentioned in the OP.

Sure - here goes:

Against Essendon - Won 18 - Lost 41 - Winning % = 30%

Against Geelong - Won 18 - Lost 45 - Drawn 1 - Winning % = 28%

Against Hawthorn - Won 19 - Lost 42 - Drawn 1 - Winning % = 30%

Against Collingwood - Won 21 - Lost 48 - Drawn 2 - Winning % = 29%

Against North Melbourne - Won 24 -Lost 42 - Drawn 1- Winning % = 35%

Pretty ordinary, isn't it?

Thanks for for doing the extra work samuraisaint, it makes it easier for me to see just how bad our record against these clubs actually is in the time frame mentioned.

[CQ SAINT]

I've followed St.Kilda since 74. I know the sentiment of the OP well. But our list, our administration and football department and our immediate future, feel so removed from all I have known about this club, that I'm prepared to wipe my memory and start fresh.