The Jarryn Geary - Tim Pain similarity

[Saintmike65]

I Can't help but see the distinct similarities regarding Jarryn Geary and Tim Pain's positions in their respective teams.
Both are captains, however on pure ability & performance, perhaps shouldn't be in the team.
Both men are lauded for their leadership skills, however polarise opinion when it comes to deserving a place in their respective teams, particularly Geary.
I don't mind Geary but I must admit, I do find difficulty in finding a spot for him in the round 1 team.

[magnifisaint]

Paine FFS

[Ghost Like]

I think "Pain" sums this up.

[saynta]

I think "Pain" sums this up.

Sums up the post AFAIC. The OP could at least learn how to spell the Aussie skipper's name.

[roskilde]

I don't really get this.

Paine's innings in the first test was our best and completely rescued the team. His captaincy was excellent in the first test and from memory he kept wicket at a high standard.

In the second test he dropped a very difficult chance, took a screamer and could be accused of perhaps not being aggressive enough with his captaincy but other than that he's been very good.

One test loss and people are losing their minds and reason.

[Trev from the Bush]

Imagine how nasty posters on this forum could be if they learnt to spell the name of their intended victim. That would add to their aura of perceived intellect.

[desertsaint]

Re: Weary - Pain similarity

[minneapolis]

Paine FFS

No Pain no Gaine

[Vortex]

Doubt very much Gears will be the Captain in 2021.

The push polling was conclusive.

[B.M]

Paine is and always has been rated a quality wicketkeeper, at the moment is rated as one of the best in the world!

His batting always feels underwhelming because he looks a lot better than his output. But an average of 33 as a keeper batsman is more than acceptable. He’s played some outstanding innings since returning to the test team and you only have to look back 2 tests where he was MOTM. His innings in the UAE two years back to draw a test against Pakistan was as good as you’ll see!

As a Captain
Arguably what he’s done since being put in charge of this side after the suspension of its two world class batters, will sit him amongst the great captains.
He has been a wonderful leader by any measure.

Jarryn Geary
Like Paine has absolute respect from his coaches, team mates and opponents!
Fans can say what they like, but he’s been a quality small defender/role player for years and his courage and commitment is at the highest level it can be for a player.

Jarryn Geary may not be a superstar player but he is obviously a super leader!

[saynta]

Paine is and always has been rated a quality wicketkeeper, at the moment is rated as one of the best in the world!

His batting always feels underwhelming because he looks a lot better than his output. But an average of 33 as a keeper batsman is more than acceptable. He’s played some outstanding innings since returning to the test team and you only have to look back 2 tests where he was MOTM. His innings in the UAE two years back to draw a test against Pakistan was as good as you’ll see!

As a Captain
Arguably what he’s done since being put in charge of this side after the suspension of its two world class batters, will sit him amongst the great captains.
He had been a wonderful leader by any measure.

Jarryn Geary
Like Paine has absolute respect from his coaches, team mates and opponents!
Fans can say what they like, but he’s been a quality small defender/role player for years and his courage and commitment is at the highest level it can be for a player.

Jarryn Geary may not be a superstar player but he is obviously a super leader!

[Harves Man]

Paine FFS

Sorry to hear you're in payne.

[Joffa Burns]

Paine is and always has been rated a quality wicketkeeper, at the moment is rated as one of the best in the world!

His batting always feels underwhelming because he looks a lot better than his output. But an average of 33 as a keeper batsman is more than acceptable. He’s played some outstanding innings since returning to the test team and you only have to look back 2 tests where he was MOTM. His innings in the UAE two years back to draw a test against Pakistan was as good as you’ll see!

As a Captain
Arguably what he’s done since being put in charge of this side after the suspension of its two world class batters, will sit him amongst the great captains.
He has been a wonderful leader by any measure.

Jarryn Geary
Like Paine has absolute respect from his coaches, team mates and opponents!
Fans can say what they like, but he’s been a quality small defender/role player for years and his courage and commitment is at the highest level it can be for a player.

Jarryn Geary may not be a superstar player but he is obviously a super leader!

I think The Gilchrist factor has plagued any keeper since Adam retired from Test Cricket.

Having the greatest batsman to ever keep wickets as a recent memory, Australians pass harsh judgement on keepers.

Hardin in any era was a decent glove man and destructive bat on his day, but has spoken of the Gilchrist comparison.

I’m a fan of Paines attitude and strength and think he has been a phenomenal leader since taking the reins. I do think within the next 12 months Smith will again be appointed captain with Alex Carey taking the gloves.

[B.M]

Could be argued Kumar Sangakkara is the greatest keeper/batsman

12 000 test runs
Batting at #3
57 Average
Runs all around the world

[B.M]

I agree, Paine should step aside in the near future after doing a great job as a leader. Carey obvious replacement.

Not sure Smith will Captain, I think he should, but I know they love Cummins.

[Joffa Burns]

Could be argued Kumar Sangakkara is the greatest keeper/batsman

12 000 test runs
Batting at #3
57 Average
Runs all around the world

Agree, all time great and largely underrated in AUS, not so in the sub-continent.
Would probably be in Wisdens all time world 11 as the keeper batsman if they still ran those polls.

I was more referring to Australia and keepers, but comparing or selecting Sangakkara and Gilchrist would be an interesting choice. Having a guy come in at 7 and score at +80 runs per hundred balls is game changing and demoralising to opposition, compared with one of the finest top order batsmen of the modern era who was also very competent behind the stumps. Fair to say neither would feature in the best 10 pure wicket-keepers to play the game.

For pure entertainment I'd go with Gilchrist as he could come in at 5 for 300 of 5 for 50 and would play exactly the same way and spank the first ball if it was there to hit.

Both modern day greats of the game.

[B.M]

I have Kumar on par with the modern giants of the game with the bat

Lara, Tendulkar, Kallis, Ponting, Dravid, Khan, Kohli, DeVilliers, Williamson.

He would almost make a greatest ever side purely as a batsman. A classic left handed bat, with every shot!

A better batsman than Gilchrist without doubt

Not as good a keeper as Gilly (although more than competent) he gave up the gloves to concentrate on batting 3

If I were picking a team however and wanted that No 7 spot filled
I’d go with the better keeper and dangerous batsman in that position
So I’d go with Gilchrist.

Sanga would probably make my best since 2000 as a batter.

[awesome_days]

I have Kumar on par with the modern giants of the game with the bat

Lara, Tendulkar, Kallis, Ponting, Dravid, Khan, Kohli, DeVilliers, Williamson.

He would almost make a greatest ever side purely as a batsman. A classic left handed bat, with every shot!

A better batsman than Gilchrist without doubt

Not as good a keeper as Gilly (although more than competent) he gave up the gloves to concentrate on batting 3

If I were picking a team however and wanted that No 7 spot filled
I’d go with the better keeper and dangerous batsman in that position
So I’d go with Gilchrist.

Sanga would probably make my best since 2000 as a batter.

I spent way too much time last Christmas determining my team of the 2010's. My criteria was to build a team to be able to be balanced enough to win everywhere. I came up with:
Cook, Warner, Sangakarra, Smith, Kholi, de Villiers, Al Hasan, Ashwin, Starc, Steyn, Anderson.

The weaknesses in this side are Warner (away record), Al Hasan (not many tests outside of Asia) and Starc (best of left arm pacers due to strike rate). Kane Williamson is better credentialed than Warner and could be a makeshift opener as he has been a 3 his whole career.

My main takeaways was that home record really determines (or skews) your stats. South Africa had the top 3 pace bowlers by average. Good spinners were from Asia and played approx 80% of their tests there meaning non-Asian conditions were a small part of the sample; Nathan Lyon is by far the best spinner outside of Asia over the last 10 years. Al Hasan was a really good all-rounder, his teams best batsman and bowler; while Stokes did not do much outside of the last 18 months.

For the wicketkeeper, AB de Villiers averaged around 50 for his career over 114 matches (57 since 1/1/2010 over 60 matches), in the 24 matches (22 were since 1/1/2010) he was a keeper his average was 57. Sanagkarra didn't keep in the last decade and when he did he averaged 40 compared to the 67 when he wasn't a keeper. I want him in my team and I don't want him keeping. The next best keeper was BJ Watling who averages around 40, which led me to believe that de Villiers was a stand out choice.

[Ghost Like]

I have Kumar on par with the modern giants of the game with the bat

Lara, Tendulkar, Kallis, Ponting, Dravid, Khan, Kohli, DeVilliers, Williamson.

He would almost make a greatest ever side purely as a batsman. A classic left handed bat, with every shot!

A better batsman than Gilchrist without doubt

Not as good a keeper as Gilly (although more than competent) he gave up the gloves to concentrate on batting 3

If I were picking a team however and wanted that No 7 spot filled
I’d go with the better keeper and dangerous batsman in that position
So I’d go with Gilchrist.

Sanga would probably make my best since 2000 as a batter.

I spent way too much time last Christmas determining my team of the 2010's. My criteria was to build a team to be able to be balanced enough to win everywhere. I came up with:
Cook, Warner, Sangakarra, Smith, Kholi, de Villiers, Al Hasan, Ashwin, Starc, Steyn, Anderson.

The weaknesses in this side are Warner (away record), Al Hasan (not many tests outside of Asia) and Starc (best of left arm pacers due to strike rate). Kane Williamson is better credentialed than Warner and could be a makeshift opener as he has been a 3 his whole career.

My main takeaways was that home record really determines (or skews) your stats. South Africa had the top 3 pace bowlers by average. Good spinners were from Asia and played approx 80% of their tests there meaning non-Asian conditions were a small part of the sample; Nathan Lyon is by far the best spinner outside of Asia over the last 10 years. Al Hasan was a really good all-rounder, his teams best batsman and bowler; while Stokes did not do much outside of the last 18 months.

For the wicketkeeper, AB de Villiers averaged around 50 for his career over 114 matches (57 since 1/1/2010 over 60 matches), in the 24 matches (22 were since 1/1/2010) he was a keeper his average was 57. Sanagkarra didn't keep in the last decade and when he did he averaged 40 compared to the 67 when he wasn't a keeper. I want him in my team and I don't want him keeping. The next best keeper was BJ Watling who averages around 40, which led me to believe that de Villiers was a stand out choice.

Love how you put this together, however when your purpose is "to win everywhere", Warner cannot be considered.

Would Smith from South Africa push him out under the charter.

[asiu]

I’m a fan of Paines attitude and strength and think he has been a phenomenal leader since taking the reins

given he was asked to carry our collective shame

Yes.

[awesome_days]

Love how you put this together, however when your purpose is "to win everywhere", Warner cannot be considered.

Would Smith from South Africa push him out under the charter.

The toss up was between Latham (44 total avg 42 away avg), Smith (44 total avg 53 away avg) and Warner (49 total avg 66 home avg 33 away avg). Going back and reading my notes Smith and Latham both scored less than half the runs Warner did. It was probably the wrong choice but I went with volume over quantity, it was one that was more difficult to make. Smith would be second given that he had a whole career to back up the smaller decade sample.

I might do one for the 2000s soon, always good to have the research done for the pick your team argument.

[B.M]

Mitch Starc?

Not sure he’d be in Australia’s best few bowlers since 2010?

Harris, Cummins, Johnson

[awesome_days]

Mitch Starc?

Not sure he’d be in Australia’s best few bowlers since 2010?

Harris, Cummins, Johnson

Agree with you there for Cummins, Hazelwood and Harris, but he is in the team as a left hand option, to which he was the best in the world over the last 10 years. He has a superior average and strike rate to Johnson and a pretty decent away record. In my analysis I was tossing up between Philander and Starc for the last fast bowling position. They both take their wickets at 28 away from home, with Philander benefiting from SA conditions to the tune of 138 wickets at under 19. I went with versatility over pure average, especially as it assists the spinners with footmarks.

Note: I used 150 wickets as a threshold which excluded Cummins and Harris.

[B.M]

Johnson had X Factor though - he actually won series for Australia

2 x ICC player of the year.

[awesome_days]

Johnson had X Factor though - he actually won series for Australia

2 x ICC player of the year.

That's very fair, probably one of the flaws of my selections was just looking at there stats as a whole and not taking into account peak performance. Johnson peaked at 849 and Starc at 804 according to ICC ranking, definitely enough for me to revisit that selection.