So what’s the verdict on the ruck?

[skeptic]

Marshall and Ryder
Or just Marshall

Paddy is better in the middle no question
Marshall plays better around the ground when by himself
Don’t remember seeing either up forward.

Commentators suggested that Paddy starts in the middle but that Marshall should roam the ground.
Less of a clear role for Paddy if not rucking whereas Roman can sit up forward.

It’s been an ongoing debate.

Thoughts?

Personally... despite the reduced output from Marshall, I reckon we can’t let opposition ducks dominate us the way they do when it’s just Rowan

[mr six o'clock]

Depending who we play .
Romo needs protection
So if the opposition rucks are good then they both play
If there average then just Romo

[Munga]

Both at the moment. Marshall isn't peaking.

[SaintDippa]

Step 1 to win games is win clearance. Ryder is a rucking god. Must play if fit.

[Ghost Like]

Marshall's game against Freo was a real concern. Even last night he got himself in position but failed to impact, besides his tap work being poor, he appears to have lost confidence marking.

He is too good to drop and I suspect he'll work his way back into form. In my opinion Roma needs Ryder to take some of the pressure off & our mids definitely need Ryder.

As a wise person described Ryder, "...is a rucking god." I'm hoping that's not rhyming slang.

[The_Dud]

I’d prefer Marshall on his own, but I suppose it depends on the matchup.

[older saint]

Horses for courses.

People questioning the recruitment but Ryder was recruited thinking there would be normally timed games , however with the shortened games we are seeing basically only about 8 -10 min a game in total when a ruckman isn't in there as opposed to normal timed games where it was closer to 20 plus minutes.

[Crossy66]

Last night was a better set up Ryder's ruck craft was a major influence last night .
King and members not enough marking power up forward. So with Battle out, marshall plays forward/ ruck.
The alternative is to swap marsh for battle, but I prefer marshall. Hes good in the air and applied forward pressure.

[freely]

What's this nonsense with Marshall that he can only play well if he's the only ruck? Somebody needs to have a word with him. Does he know it's a team sport. This is exactly the problem (imho) with Gresham - great, so long as he's the only attacking player having a crack.

[Life Long Saint]

Would like Ryder to be the main ruck with Marshall to be the 2nd tall forward and Membrey the third. King is getting double teamed too much.
Ryder gives us first use of the ball with Jones, Gresham, Steele, and Hannebery (when fit) in the middle.
Win the centre clearance and look for one of the three talls with Lonie/Butler crumbing if the ball isn't marked.
Marshall/Ryder to swap for rests.

The general consensus is that if you have one tall forward, you need two otherwise you're too predictable.
Having Hall on his own didn't work for the Dogs.
We've always been more dangerous when we've had two or more genuine key forwards.
Lockett/Loewe; Loewe/Everitt/Heatley; G-Train/Kosi/Hammil/Roo;

[spert]

Ryder is clearly the better ruckman of the two- right now. Marshall's big strength was his marking and hard running around the ground last season, but that seems to be missing. He just looked a more confident player last season, but now he doesn't look that good as a forward or a mobile ruck. That's two ordinary games in a row, so next game, needs to pick it up a bit.

[Saintmatt]

I like the two rucks but it's only going to work against certain teams. Our two dominated a younger English against the Dogs and I thought they tried to do the same with O'Brien last night.

Ryder's tap work is a ting of absolute beauty and his silver service to our mids at centre bounces was a massive advantage to us. When Ryder plays - Marshall's role changes depending on the opposition. Against a shorter defence - he plays forward and stretches them but last night, he seemed to play that traditional follower role of a kick behind the play (which O'Brien was also doing). Marshall is terrific below his knees - he's a very versatile footballer.

I hope they can find a way to keep both of them playing - when necessary - and especially if Paddy can impart his tap knowledge to RoMa

[Beno88]

Both must play this week. Short break, young opposition ruckman and Marshall still needs the chop out.

Port's defence struggled against Carlton's talls on Sunday, so either ruckman resting forward may be handy too.

[saynta]

If you are only going to go in with one ruck, on form it has to be Paddy. Sorry, but apart from one week, Marshall has been below form.

[nostalgicsaint]

Both for sure.

Marshall benefits in multiple ways.

He gets to learn from one of the best pure rucks going around.
He reduces the wear and tear on his body
He gets to learn how to impact as a forward

Our midfield benefits in multiple ways
They get silver service from ryder
They get Marshall instead of an ordinary part timer

Also Marshall as a forward helps protect king and makes members more dangerous. His body work in that mark late in the game shouldnt be underestimated.

[bigcarl]

Play them both.

Not being No.1 ruckman may have affected RoMa’s mojo, but he’s going to have to adjust.

I think he is good enough to play as a forward or as a kick-behind-the-play ruck rover. He hasn’t really clicked up forward yet, but he will.

Ryder is a very good tap ruckman and I thought he, Gresham and Steele were key when the game was on the line last night.

[Scollop]

Play them both.

Not being No.1 ruckman may have affected RoMa’s mojo, but he’s going to have to adjust.

I think he is good enough to play as a forward or as a kick-behind-the-play ruck rover. He hasn’t really clicked up forward yet, but he will.

Ryder is a very good tap ruckman and I thought he, Gresham and Steele were key when the game was on the line last night.

+ 1

Totally agree on all points.

I wasn’t sure if Ryder impacted the game but I think he was desperate to impress and his second efforts were just as good as his ruckwork...which was elite.

I watched it live (on t.v) and didn’t notice Marshall that much but I was half tanked so when I saw the replay this morning I saw a bloke definitely contribute around the ground as a ruck rover

Marshall was also very smart with the way he competed at that crucial contest when Adelaide was only 9 points down in that last quarter. Carlisle took the intercept mark when they were kicking it out and then he kicked it to the two talls in Skunk and RoMa (thank Christ Lonie or Butler didn’t lead). Roma put on a subtle block and Membrey stood up like a leader should. Well done to Rowan for doing his bit for the team

[bigred]

Ryder was a calming influence really. Last week Roma looked panicked in the second half.

Horses for courses. I would definitely play Ryder again this week. Surely he has some sort of intel to help us pinch this one.

[Sanctorum]

Play them both.

Not being No.1 ruckman may have affected RoMa’s mojo, but he’s going to have to adjust.

I think he is good enough to play as a forward or as a kick-behind-the-play ruck rover. He hasn’t really clicked up forward yet, but he will.

Ryder is a very good tap ruckman and I thought he, Gresham and Steele were key when the game was on the line last night.

You're on the money bigcarl. I hope the Saints continue with 2 ruckmen, and give Ryan Abbott a go when either of Marshall or Ryder need to be rested.

In last night's game O'Brien seemed to me to have been the best big man on the ground, and without Paddy I doubt if the Saints would have come out on top.

[saintbob]

The verdict is Marshall has possibly 18 months to watch Ryder and learn how to tap the ball.
If he can do that he’ll be the complete package and we’ll have one of if not the best ruckman in the comp.

[perfectionist]

I'll leave it to the coach.

[To the top]

Ryder has the experience and the skills

Marshall has little experience with developing skills - plus that Marshall has the skill set to play as a forward

So play both

King is inexperienced and Membrey is midfield size - so the inclusion of Marshall forward shifts the match ups and I would put to our advantage

We have “small forward” options when the ball comes to ground so that should also be to our advantage

Marshall, King and Membrey will need to work on patterns - noting all are mobile

It was a mid winter night match in Adelaide on Monday - so a bit slippery

The next thing is who is under Ryder’s ruck work because there were some deficiencies v Adelaide

Hannebery will make a difference

And to me we seemed to be kicking down the flanks v Adelaide and to packs in what was a man on man contest (maybe the night conditions and Adelaide being 0-6)

[Jacks Back]

Ryder is a good ruck but not so good around the ground and no good up forward.
Marshall is an okay ruck and great around the ground when rucking but Marshall as a forward doesn't seem to be working. He is probably not agile enough to be a forward.

It's a dilemma!

[kosifantutti]

Don’t be surprised to see Abbott at some stage with 4-5 day breaks.

[nostalgicsaint]

Don’t be surprised to see Abbott at some stage with 4-5 day breaks.

Abbott should play for Ryder when Ryder needs a rest.

With this stint of matches coming up I think we're going to really benefit from the recruitment of both ryder and Abbott.

Marshall one out every week would have been a massive slog.