Side v Carlton

[To the top]

Interesting, hey?

It was a pretty even effort today, noting Kent replaced Ryder (general soreness)

Ross found a position, doing what he did when he first established in the St Kilda side, tagging an opposition play maker

Lonie got up and down the ground, also winning some frees in the process

And we now have Butler, Lonie, Kent and Gresham as “small forwards”

So the midfield and “small forward” sameness is still there except all contributed today including Ross as the defensive player frees Steele from that responsibility

So Ross runs with Cripps next week?

There are improvements to be made in execution (Ross with a speculative over the head handball sending the ball Richmond’s way and they ran into it as an example - but perfect is a pipe dream)

The “spine” is solid - and I would still like to see Marshall as a forward because I think he is that good King will only get better and Membrey improved

The back 6 is set with Paton cementing

So, on today’s performance (and I emphasise today because every day is a new day) the Coach backed them in and they delivered

That leaves a group of players including the Captain looking on - until the next loss when we again run the ruler over why we lost and see where the Coach’s patience is and with who

[skeptic]

I don’t think you can keep the captain out. Geary deserves his spot in the team and I think we need his experience.

On balance, I think a forward pocket needs to go so for me it’s Lonie vs Kent for Geary is the one change I’d make

[fugazi]

Tempted to go unchanged pending Jones injury update.

Kent was actually good, maybe the extra few months have allowed those sort tissue injuries to ease up.
He can actually turn corners now, not just straight line speed.

Paton is a lock, with Wilkie back there too, just cool headed pros.

If Jones goes, maybe we bring in Bytel or Phillips?

[Devilhead]

If Geary comes in - give him a run with role on Docherty like he did on Johannisen

[Spinner]

If Geary fit then comes straight in.

Who to drop? Hard.

[Peanut Farm]

Surely the swelling in Gresham's eye wont recover - it was fully closed after that knock

[Moods]

Surely the swelling in Gresham's eye wont recover - it was fully closed after that knock

Surely Gresham has to be dropped regardless and Geary comes in

[minneapolis]

If Geary fit then comes straight in.

Who to drop? Hard.

It would be hard to drop Hard. He hardly made a mistake.

[saintspremiers]

If Geary fit then comes straight in.

Who to drop? Hard.

Unless our at ToT who has a well known vendetta against The Captain.

As to who to drop - very hard - possibly Jones is quite 100% next week.

[The Linton Street Flash]

If Geary fit then comes straight in.

Who to drop? Hard.

It would be hard to drop Hard. He hardly made a mistake.

Not convinced on Hard - I think he's soft!

[saynta]

Battle, Marsh. Long and Steele add a toughness to the side that will have opposition sides hearing footsteps. Find a place for the captain and I think we could be finals bound.

[whiskers3614]

If Geary fit then comes straight in.

Who to drop? Hard.

It would be hard to drop Hard. He hardly made a mistake.

Not convinced on Hard - I think he's soft!

Apparently Hard upsets Mr and Mrs Murphy!

[perfectionist]

In Luke Dunstan
Out Zak Jones (injured)

[saints66]

Z.A.C. Jones has been a great pick up lots of speed and effort shame to see him hurt.
Dunstan in
Will Ryder make it back?
Team worked better without him.

[SAINT-LEE]

I don’t think you can keep the captain out. Geary deserves his spot in the team and I think we need his experience.

On balance, I think a forward pocket needs to go so for me it’s Lonie vs Kent for Geary is the one change I’d make

Kent or Lonie? Why not Gresham? He's had 1 decent game out of 4. Statistics show Gresham besting Lonie....just. But Lonie is scoring more.
Gresham vs Kent shows Kent beating Gresham in many areas - goals, marks, inside 50'S, tackles, etc.

Gresham is more efficient than both of them but he just seems flat. Not a 1 game situation....Gresham will be close to 100 games at season end and he's still playing B- / C+ ball.

Maybe Gresh needs a refresh or some damn passion out there, fight a bit, scrap for it ....Lonie will never be better but he's more feral and scores.

With Jones out who stays?

[skeptic]

I don’t think you can keep the captain out. Geary deserves his spot in the team and I think we need his experience.

On balance, I think a forward pocket needs to go so for me it’s Lonie vs Kent for Geary is the one change I’d make

Kent or Lonie? Why not Gresham? He's had 1 decent game out of 4. Statistics show Gresham besting Lonie....just. But Lonie is scoring more.
Gresham vs Kent shows Kent beating Gresham in many areas - goals, marks, inside 50'S, tackles, etc.

Gresham is more efficient than both of them but he just seems flat. Not a 1 game situation....Gresham will be close to 100 games at season end and he's still playing B- / C+ ball.

Maybe Gresh needs a refresh or some damn passion out there, fight a bit, scrap for it ....Lonie will never be better but he's more feral and scores.

With Jones out who stays?

I respectfully disagree.

Gresham didn’t have a great game yesterday but he’s been north of 20 possessions for the last 2 weeks and IMO his contribution has been a lot better than what he’s been credited with.
I think he’s being marked very harshly by the brush of what people want his performance to be versus what it actually is. My view is that whilst not as tidy... he’s working hard, getting a bit of it and contributing.

On Lonie,
Rd1 - 6 possessions for 0.1
Rd2 - 15 possessions for 1.1
Rd3 - 9 possessions for 0.1
Rd4 - 16 possessions for 2.0

On Kent
Rd1- 14 possessions for 0.2
Rd4 - 10 possessions for 2.0

Now it’s harder to judge Kent on just 2 games but I think those numbers, in my opinion, demonstrate how much less we’re inclined to scrutinise players when we’re winning.
Both have been very mediocre in the games that we’ve lost and simply aren’t contributing enough when/if the teams not dominating. Further to that, we’ve seen from both that they can player better in terms of tackles, pressure and just plain getting hands on the ball

The challenge with both at the moment... the difference in measuring their contributions is heavily reliant on whether or not they hit the scoreboard and make the most of their limited opportunities and that’s really a concern.
Kent’s two games are a reflection of that. He had actually had less ball yesterday then rd1 but made the most of the opportunities hence his game has a positive rub to it.

The reality IMO, harsh as this might be is that whilst his last goal was a ripper, he was extremely lucky to get the first one which was gifted to him after King dropped what he really should have taken.

If we were 0-4... both guys would be under a lot more pressure

Compare there output to a guy like Butler whose gotten 15-16 possessions and 2-3 goals in each of the last 3 games and note the difference. Goals aside , his impact is very noticeable. The guy has presence and seems to make this happen IMO due to his work rate and getting to contests.


In terms of team balance, IMO there is enough room for 2 of Butler, Lonie and Kent... obviously Butler is a lock. For me it’s a flip between the other 2

[The_Dud]

Hope we stick with Marshall as number 1 ruck. No offence to Ryder, but the team balance is a lot better without him there.

I’d only consider Ryder if for some reason King isn’t playing, then Marshall can slot in to his spot.

[Scollop]

If there's no Harry, then we could even leave Howard out. Not sure who Wilkie takes but Carlisle must compete harder if he's up against Levi Casboult

Who are the Carlton talls in the forward line apart from Levi.

I'd stay with RoMa and Battle in ruck. Don't think Kreuzer is fit

Keep Lonie in. Gresh plays if he passes his 20/20 vision test

And rest any one with any niggles or soreness

[To the top]

When Carlton beat us in a tight contest toward the end of last season at the MCG their tall options moved around as targets, pinging them from the 50 and on the boundary (they particularly exploited Brown) PLUS they had a guy in defence who marked everything that was coming in (and, I would suspect, the game that saw Bruce's papers marked).

No doubt our IT resource has drawn this to the Coach's attention (if necessary which it probably in not because Rattan is most perceptive)

As with every week, the Coaching panel assisted by the IR resource will have identified certain issues to be addressed.

We no doubt prefer the roof closed and a fast surface - and we are building a side that can further improve as they gain more experience.

There will be further hurdles because you do not win every game, the losses leading to reviews which are, possibly at least, more critical than the reviews when you win.

Player confidence, including in fellow players and in "the system" give the result.

If player confidence is absent it manifests because it only takes one weak link for "the system" to be compromised.

The position of the Captain (because he is the Captain) is of interest because he is now in competition with Clark, Coffield, Long, Patton and Wilkie for a defensive responsibility (before you get to Roberton, Savage, Webster et al) and equally for a "defensive small forward" spot.

The "gun and run" brigade plus an ability to (also) hit the scoreboard are puting pressure on, which is a good thing because these are not negotiable attributes in today's game.

[Toy Saint]

Keen to see Luke Dunstan back in the team

[SAINT-LEE]

I don’t think you can keep the captain out. Geary deserves his spot in the team and I think we need his experience.

On balance, I think a forward pocket needs to go so for me it’s Lonie vs Kent for Geary is the one change I’d make

Kent or Lonie? Why not Gresham? He's had 1 decent game out of 4. Statistics show Gresham besting Lonie....just. But Lonie is scoring more.
Gresham vs Kent shows Kent beating Gresham in many areas - goals, marks, inside 50'S, tackles, etc.

Gresham is more efficient than both of them but he just seems flat. Not a 1 game situation....Gresham will be close to 100 games at season end and he's still playing B- / C+ ball.

Maybe Gresh needs a refresh or some damn passion out there, fight a bit, scrap for it ....Lonie will never be better but he's more feral and scores.

With Jones out who stays?

I respectfully disagree.

Gresham didn’t have a great game yesterday but he’s been north of 20 possessions for the last 2 weeks and IMO his contribution has been a lot better than what he’s been credited with.
I think he’s being marked very harshly by the brush of what people want his performance to be versus what it actually is. My view is that whilst not as tidy... he’s working hard, getting a bit of it and contributing.

On Lonie,
Rd1 - 6 possessions for 0.1
Rd2 - 15 possessions for 1.1
Rd3 - 9 possessions for 0.1
Rd4 - 16 possessions for 2.0

On Kent
Rd1- 14 possessions for 0.2
Rd4 - 10 possessions for 2.0

Now it’s harder to judge Kent on just 2 games but I think those numbers, in my opinion, demonstrate how much less we’re inclined to scrutinise players when we’re winning.
Both have been very mediocre in the games that we’ve lost and simply aren’t contributing enough when/if the teams not dominating. Further to that, we’ve seen from both that they can player better in terms of tackles, pressure and just plain getting hands on the ball

The challenge with both at the moment... the difference in measuring their contributions is heavily reliant on whether or not they hit the scoreboard and make the most of their limited opportunities and that’s really a concern.
Kent’s two games are a reflection of that. He had actually had less ball yesterday then rd1 but made the most of the opportunities hence his game has a positive rub to it.

The reality IMO, harsh as this might be is that whilst his last goal was a ripper, he was extremely lucky to get the first one which was gifted to him after King dropped what he really should have taken.

If we were 0-4... both guys would be under a lot more pressure

Compare there output to a guy like Butler whose gotten 15-16 possessions and 2-3 goals in each of the last 3 games and note the difference. Goals aside , his impact is very noticeable. The guy has presence and seems to make this happen IMO due to his work rate and getting to contests.


In terms of team balance, IMO there is enough room for 2 of Butler, Lonie and Kent... obviously Butler is a lock. For me it’s a flip between the other 2

I guess Gresham is under more scrutiny because he was a 1st round pick with almost 90 games under his belt and the defense that people have is, " hey he's averaging 20 disposals"....yet the same people smash Ross who has higher disposals and significantly better efficiency. If stats are the support for him playing, its not good - avg disposals 17, for 2020.
Almost every stat has dipped by 20-40% lower than 2019.
Either he's being more heavily tagged after teams realise he's a B grade player with 17 disposals and 59% efficiency (Im not using sarcasm, more pure asshole than anything) or his confidence, passion, work rate, or something is affecting him. He's had 85+ games of which 15 were awesome and 23 were average and the rest very average. What he "could be" better hurry up...
If we are doing the Cho in 2020...giving him 3-5 more seasons to prove himself, what makes him more worthy than anyone else waiting?

I like him. I want him to be great...hell, to be the greatest ever but if 85 games hasn't revealed his attitude and game what are you watching? I'd take Lonie 3.3 goals or Kent's 2.2 over Gresham 0.3.

Out: Gresham, Kent
In: Dunstan, Hind

It's hard to really compare him because we dont have other mids at 85-90 games. But if we are dropping Lonie for poor play Gresh has to be considered....He's piss poor compared to last year.

Try comparing him at the same age with Dunstan - similar build, both pick #18. Dunstan absolutely smashes Gresh at the same age....so if Gresh has NEVER statisticallly been as good as Dunstan EVER in his career so far...why are we sh1ting on Dunstan but patting Gresham on the poo poo?

[bigcarl]

No change unless we have to drop someone to get Geary in. It was an impressive win.

I thought Battle was good enough to keep his spot. Very handy player and has a bit of dog in him, which we need.

[saynta]

Jones outinjuredreplaced by either Gears or Dunny.

[tony74]

Jones outinjuredreplaced by either Gears or Dunny.

[SaintPav]

Jones outinjuredreplaced by either Gears or Dunny.

So does that mean Jones definitely out or those players are in line if he misses?

Sounds like he might be out to me which is a shame.