Jake Carlisle

[Con Gorozidis]

We have spent too much time obsessing on this one bloke. Hes not the messiah.

[Scollop]

Pendlebury, Boak, Stringer and Buddy all went at pick 5. There's a risk with a pick 5 but there's a risk with any player especially one that might get a WADA ban.

[mr six o'clock]

We have spent too much time obsessing on this one bloke. Hes not the messiah.

Amen to that !

he's had six seasons at the bombers
and basically achieved nothing .
I reckon we are mad to offer him the deal we have , so if we miss out , we miss out . someone else will come along .
if he goes to the hawks then he may have a chance to win a flag next year but with the bulk of there champion match winners getting on , there premiership window is closing .

[spert]

He still would be a handy get under a good coach and in a better environment than a drug lab. If we don't get him, then we need to concentrate on the big flashing alarm- the midfield..get quality.

[Jacks Back]

Won't lose a wink of sleep if we can't pull this one off and Jake goes elsewhere.

I'd certainly be talking to his management about heading to the PSD, front-loading that four-year contract into $1m in each of his first two seasons, and much lower amounts thereafter.

Why would Carlisle want to come to a club with a poor list management strategy? I'm sure he'd much rather be playing WITH the pick 5 from next season onwards.

This front loading doesn't sound good. What if he starts to then sook in his third year because he then won't be getting paid as much or he leaves for another club?

[SMS]

Hes 24.

Not the end of the world. Not worth pick 5. Get freeman, rice (speed) and a number 5 gun.
Next draft go harder and get 2 quality kpd's. All is well.

[prwilkinson]

Hes 24.

Not the end of the world. Not worth pick 5. Get freeman, rice (speed) and a number 5 gun.
Next draft go harder and get 2 quality kpd's. All is well.

Yup. Nailed it.

[Goose is king]

[quote="Jacks Back"][quote="evertonfc"]Won't lose a wink of sleep if we can't pull this one off and Jake goes elsewhere.

I'd certainly be talking to his management about heading to the PSD, front-loading that four-year contract into $1m in each of his first two seasons, and much lower amounts thereafter.

Why would Carlisle want to come to a club with a poor list management strategy? I'm sure he'd much rather be playing WITH the pick 5 from next season onwards.[/quote]
This front loading doesn't sound good. What if he starts to then sook in his third year because he then won't be getting paid as much or he leaves for another club?[/quote]

He wouldn't sook. And you could say suck it up mate your contracted. We will be playing finals by then

[Goose is king]

Let's not forget. The manager gets a percentage of his pay. He wants him with us

[ace]

Hawthorn dealing for Carlisle.
Essendon receive picks 15 & 18 but lose pick 41 soon to be pick 44 due to free agency compensations.
Pick 15 = 1,112 points
Pick 18 = 985 points
Pick 44 = 362 points
Essendon receive 1,735 points for Carlisle
That values Carlisle between picks 6 & 7.
PIck 7 = 1,644 points
Pick 6 = 1,751 points
Not pick 5 as Essendon demands = 1,878 points.

Hawthorn pay the lowest money of any club in the league for top players.
You play for Hawthorn, you take a lot less than your market value, you get to play for premierships as compensation.
Hawthorn may have more room in their cap in 2017 but then other players will not be content if one player gets most of that and they miss out.
Put simply Carlisle has no hope of getting $3.2 million plus in 5 years at Hawthorn.

Lets move on, Essendon can sell him to Hawthorn, if Hawthorn can't pay enough to get his signature he goes to the PSD.

[saintsRrising]

Why would Carlisle want to come to a club with a poor list management strategy? I'm sure he'd much rather be playing WITH the pick 5 from next season onwards.

Talk about in being 100% denial and fully blinkered. Which club would be the one that Carlisle would think has a good list management strategy?

a/ The one that can do a deal to get him

b/ The one that can't do a deal and tells him that they are so inept that that he will have to go into the PSD so that MAYBE they get to pick him up. (Anyone in that circumstance would choose accepting the Hawks deal over maybebeing picked by the Blues or Lions)

[ace]

Why would Carlisle want to come to a club with a poor list management strategy? I'm sure he'd much rather be playing WITH the pick 5 from next season onwards.

Talk about in being 100% denial and fully blinkered. Which club would be the one that Carlisle would think has a good list management strategy?

a/ The one that can do a deal to get him

b/ The one that can't do a deal and tells him that they are so inept that that he will have to go into the PSD so that MAYBE they get to pick him up. (Anyone in that circumstance would choose accepting the Hawks deal over maybebeing picked by the Blues or Lions)

Hawthorn can't pay him $3.2 million over 5 years.
If Carlisle signs with Hawthorn he loses at least a million dollars.
The compensation is he gets to play for premierships.
It comes down to money or the medallion.

I don't know what plan B is, but it is better than plan A, lets move on saints.

[LTN16]

Hes 24.

Not the end of the world. Not worth pick 5. Get freeman, rice (speed) and a number 5 gun.
Next draft go harder and get 2 quality kpd's. All is well.

Yup. Nailed it.

Exactly!

[ace]

Essendon such a caring club.
First they stick you repeatably with a drug.
Won't tell you or anyone else what the drug is (because it was illegal).
Allow you to be mentally tortured for 2 years.
Force you to play for a year under the same coach that inflicted all this upon you.
Then when you want to leave, they stick you again - with a club you don't want to join.

[Con Gorozidis]

I think its all over if this is true. Essendon end up with the equivalent of pick 6 out of that deal if it is actually on the table.

[santazzi]

Why would Carlisle want to come to a club with a poor list management strategy? I'm sure he'd much rather be playing WITH the pick 5 from next season onwards.

Talk about in being 100% denial and fully blinkered. Which club would be the one that Carlisle would think has a good list management strategy?

a/ The one that can do a deal to get him

b/ The one that can't do a deal and tells him that they are so inept that that he will have to go into the PSD so that MAYBE they get to pick him up. (Anyone in that circumstance would choose accepting the Hawks deal over maybebeing picked by the Blues or Lions)

Hawthorn can't pay him $3.2 million over 5 years.
If Carlisle signs with Hawthorn he loses at least a million dollars.
The compensation is he gets to play for premierships.
It comes down to money or the medallion.

I don't know what plan B is, but it is better than plan A, lets move on saints.

I think he put the money/medallion question to rest in his interview soon after he nominated the Saints. He clearly stated that if he wanted a premiership NOW he would have selected Hawks and the other team he mentioned I think was North. He also stated that he chose the Saints because he wanted to grow and develop with a young group. I guess he was saying he wants to make his own championship history with the guys. I find it hard to believe that, that statement evaporates away because the team (Hawks) he consciously discarded not so long a go decided to ride into town

[longtimesaint]

Why would Carlisle want to come to a club with a poor list management strategy? I'm sure he'd much rather be playing WITH the pick 5 from next season onwards.

Talk about in being 100% denial and fully blinkered. Which club would be the one that Carlisle would think has a good list management strategy?

a/ The one that can do a deal to get him

b/ The one that can't do a deal and tells him that they are so inept that that he will have to go into the PSD so that MAYBE they get to pick him up. (Anyone in that circumstance would choose accepting the Hawks deal over maybebeing picked by the Blues or Lions)

Hawthorn can't pay him $3.2 million over 5 years.
If Carlisle signs with Hawthorn he loses at least a million dollars.
The compensation is he gets to play for premierships.
It comes down to money or the medallion.

I don't know what plan B is, but it is better than plan A, lets move on saints.

I think he put the money/medallion question to rest in his interview soon after he nominated the Saints. He clearly stated that if he wanted a premiership NOW he would have selected Hawks and the other team he mentioned I think was North. He also stated that he chose the Saints because he wanted to grow and develop with a young group. I guess he was saying he wants to make his own championship history with the guys. I find it hard to believe that, that statement evaporates away because the team (Hawks) he consciously discarded not so long a go decided to ride into town

This is a real test of his integrity.
Once making the decision and publicly stating the reasons for joining the saints he should hold fast and let us continue to negotiate.

[Sainternist]

Hes not the messiah.

He's a very naughty boy!

[derby Street]

Where is the magical 15# from Hawthorn coming from - surely not via Norf for Anderson. I would spew if I was a shinboner and this trade happened. He is mid 2nd round at the very very best.

[Con Gorozidis]

Where is the magical 15# from Hawthorn coming from - surely not via Norf for Anderson. I would spew if I was a shinboner and this trade happened. He is mid 2nd round at the very very best.

Norf get 41 back. Values Anderson as pick 27. Probably not far off the mark. Norf need pace.

[longtimesaint]

Where is the magical 15# from Hawthorn coming from - surely not via Norf for Anderson. I would spew if I was a shinboner and this trade happened. He is mid 2nd round at the very very best.

Norf get 41 back. Values Anderson as pick 27. Probably not far off the mark. Norf need pace.

Questionable the value of 41 in a weak draft. What will be left?

[To the top]

As I put on here elsewhere, the "Free Agency" has occurred at a time that has suited Hawthorn as evidenced by the demographics of the side that played on Grand Final day.

How many players from other Clubs, including the very experienced players who form their core?

So the "politics" at the AFL has given one side a distinct advantage in a competition where the Draft and Salary Caps were introduced to create a more equal competition.

Good luck to them, but nothing lasts forever - eg Hodge was Drafted in the same year as Judd and Ball - and they have an ageing side, the most experienced to ever play a Grand Final.

They control the zones and the ball particularly well - but others will "catch" them and pass them, including because of the interest they are sucking from a competition in decline (hence the cheaper pies and soft drinks!!!) and where the AFL will "tweak" the rules to change the dimensions of the game (as the NRL did with the 5 Tackle Rule to halt St George's 11 Premierships).

Exactly the same as the (then) Father/Son rules gave significant advantage to Geelong.

And again we see the full impact of a team, entrenched at the top of the ladder because of the players it has "attracted" from other Clubs, able to offer players from other clubs what it offers.

Dal Santo and Goddard will be kicking themselves for going to the "wrong" Clubs looking to finish with a premiership, regardless.

Now it is a character test for Carlisle (and a validation of St Kilda putting an offer to him) to respond that he is committed to St Kilda and St Kilda obtaining his services including by any means St Kilda suggest.

We will see.

Pick 5 will (hopefully) deliver us a player with very great potential.

Freeman will hopefully validate his status in his Draft year.

And we continue to build.

In all honesty, our 6 and a half wins were in a fixture putting us in the lower section of the draw - so we still have a lot of work to do when we start playing the top 8 sides twice instead of once.

It is them we must beat.

2016?

Probably not - but hopefully very competitive, snatching the occasional win - even when we play Hawthorn.

The basis for this will be Armitage, Steven, Billings, Dunstan, Acres, McCartin, Bruce, Lonie and Goddard - plus No 5 this year and Freeman.

Allowing for Longer and Hickey (who I would not consider trading under any circumstance), we have 13 of our 22.

Then we have Gilbert (and given everyone else is so proficient with the ball - hence, as an example, Geary is not mentioned - we can "wear" his occasional lapses including because of intent), Newnes, Roberton and Webster who should be adequate support.

A couple of others on our List may stand up in 2016 - adding to our depth.

This leaves out our veterans - who will contribute in 2016.

So, all things being equal, we have a side for 2016 - and a need to inject a further 5/6 class players over the next 1/2 years from and including 2017, from the Draft and from "Free Agency" targets, where "Free Agency" will target specific position players.

If Carlisle wants to "buy into" this from 2016 - Good.

If it is all too hard - well St Kilda continue to build from the foundations up.

[Con Gorozidis]

Hate to say it but if those Bomber flogs end up with pick 4 ,15, 18, 23 they will have done very well. 4 picks in the top 25.
They also get Leuenberger for nothing. This has the AFL signature all over it.

I forgot about Melksham. This means the Bombers have 5 picks in the first 25 + Leuenberger.

[bigred]

Oh well.

Hawthorn get to do it again.

Moving on....

[ripplug66]

Hate to say it but if those Bomber flogs end up with pick 4 ,15, 18, 23 they will have done very well. 4 picks in the top 25.
They also get Leuenberger for nothing. This has the AFL signature all over it.

How could the AFL help them do that? And why would they want to? I don't think the Hawks and North are going to do a deal because the AFL want the Bombers to rise up the ladder quickly. And my guess is the AFL would rather Carlisle come to us than the Hawks anyway.