Saints homeward bound!!

[gringo]

There appears to be 4 key questions being debated in this thread as potential reasons for a move back to the JO:

1. How do we ensure we have unrestricted access to an elite training facility and administration centre big enough to allow us to grow
2. How do we build our membership base to competitive levels with other clubs
3. How do we improve the financial returns for our 11 home games
4. How do we attract bigger sponsorship revenue competitive with other clubs

Ultimately the biggest influence on 2 - 3 and 4 above will be success on the field. A change of our training and admin facility might have indirect benefits on membership and sponsorship but that is marginal at best.

Major Sponsors care only how many eyes will be on their logo and how much goodwill they buy by being associated with the team. There are experts who calculate the value to the dollar of these types of deals. Maybe if we could call the JO - the Mitsubishi Centre that has move value than Linen House Oval in Seaford but given Cricket Victoria is the primary tenant even that option is probably not available to us.

Membership growth is driven by success where we train is not going sell one more membership - we have a set number of supporters today our success on the field determines what percentage of those supporters choose to become members and attend games. More than that our success determines how many opposition supporters want to attend when their team is playing the Saints.

Longer term it is success that breeds new supporters, kids in primary school either follow their Parents team or the teams at the top of the ladder. Even then the membership benefit of a sustained period of success is not really evident until that generation of primary school kids that jumped on board in Prep grow up and start buying their own memberships and having kids. Hawthorn were almost merged in the late 90's such was the dire state of their membership. The fact they now have 50K plus members is not because they won the flag in 2008 it is because they were the most successful side of the 80's. Those 80's kids are now all in their 30's and there are a lot of them.

As for playing games at the JO or Moorabin that will never happen. Geelong works because they are in Geelong and they never left, they own the town. More than 50% of the locals support them and support the council and local members of state government ploughing money into keeping them in Geelong. Cricket Victoria won't want one blade of grass disturbed on their new premier ground and neither should they. It would only be considered by them if they received the lions share of the match revenue which would kind of defeat the whole purpose for us. Ultimately it appears Cricket don't want us there and that pretty much kills the plan.

So the only tangible reason left for us to be part of this redevelopment is if we end up with state of the art facilities and room to expand at minimal long term financial cost to the club. All of which are possible but unlikely at the Junction particularly if we are the 2nd class tenant that it appears we will be and the State Government doesn't fund it.

I think we could easily use the facilities like pool, gym, training and rehab staff and it benefit both. Cricket Vic have a few loud mouths but at the end of the day they are trying to get the AFL to help buy them a stadium because of a farcical situation where a few hundred people go to watch state cricket at the MCG which costs a bomb just to open the gates. AFL is then unable to fixture around this farce. The AFL could easily change a few things to make it the oval outside the JO for football training with shared facilities. Collingwood does it at OP and it gives access to the other athletes as well as the football club. Time for cricket to shut up and realise they are a spent force trying to throw their weight around still. It could be a major coup for the state cricketers to get access to shared training activities, professional staff etc. The ground is higher profile and changes the self image of the club as a whole IMO.

[Con Gorozidis]

8 Wooden Spoons at Moorabbin in 40 years. So two per decade. So lets not romanticise it and claim it was a place of enormous success and happiness.
We also only got out of there 5 minutes ago so it cant have been that great.
I feel the past is irrelevant anyhow. Things have changed dramatically since we left the JO in the 60s. Inner Urban design has changed. Demographics have changed. To me the JO is a place of the future and not the past. If anyone cant imagine it look at the Rabbitohs re-development in Redfern. The JO allows us to get new supporters. Pleasing says 'the number of supporters is fixed'. That is true for Seaford and Moorabbin but I feel that is where JO can make a step difference. Why is the number of supporters fixed in a growing population?

[Bunk_Moreland]

So after winning one flag by one point we conclude that Moorabbin was a successful base?

How many spoons did we win there? 7?

Let's move to the best place for the future - wherever that is... not some emotional-based relic of a flag we won 50 years ago.

Facts are we have won one more flag at Morrabbin that at any other home ground.

How many flags and how many woodenspoons at the JO?

No flags

27 Spoons, 2 at Docklands, 8 at Morrabbin, this means 17 at JO.

So no flags and 17 spoons.

Seems like Morrabbin was VASTLY more successful in the 20+ years than the 68+ years getting flogged and humiliated at the JO.

And people want to go back there???????

great.

[stinger]

So after winning one flag by one point we conclude that Moorabbin was a successful base?

How many spoons did we win there? 7?

Let's move to the best place for the future - wherever that is... not some emotional-based relic of a flag we won 50 years ago.

Facts are we have won one more flag at Morrabbin that at any other home ground.

How many flags and how many woodenspoons at the JO?

No flags

27 Spoons, 2 at Docklands, 8 at Morrabbin, this means 17 at JO.

So no flags and 17 spoons.

Seems like Morrabbin was VASTLY more successful in the 20+ years than the 68+ years getting flogged and humiliated at the JO.

And people want to go back there???????

great.

+1

[plugger66]

So after winning one flag by one point we conclude that Moorabbin was a successful base?

How many spoons did we win there? 7?

Let's move to the best place for the future - wherever that is... not some emotional-based relic of a flag we won 50 years ago.

I agree, Moorabin was not a happy home for people of my generation. It all comes back to finding a way to get out of our oppressive stadium deal though to me. JO could become a distraction while in the meantime the Dogs are a real chance to get to a point where they are able to play some interstate games at the Kennel. That means we are probably going to be needing to make up the difference for the stadium operators. The Cats get public money to upgrade their stadium which brings them $500 000 a game. We have to pay for the privilege of playing our home games at Etihad then get told we are poor financial managers and disdainfully ridiculed by teams like the Hawks. We should look at getting in on a deal with the Roos, Dogs etc and unionise to get the AFL to pay for their own stadium. Call their bluff and say we are going to need underwriting and not handouts. There is no way we should be paying their asset off while others question our credentials.

You sound as off beat as Dave. Unionise with other clubs? What are you on about. The AFL basically own the clubs. Unfortunately whilst we are struggling on and off the field we have to do what they say. We have to work out a way of building our memberships like the hawks and Tigers and then we wont get pushed around. I agree with people who say we should train at the best place for the club and I don't care where that is as long as its just one venue. The only reason I like the idea of Moorabbin isn't because of the past but because of the future and that is the 10 million they are going to spend on it. If we can get some extra money we should be able to make it into a very good facility. And the idea of playing home games at anywhere but Etihad, the G or Wellington is fanciful and I don't think our club is dumb enough to spend a second thinking about it.

[Pleasing]

8 Wooden Spoons at Moorabbin in 40 years. So two per decade. So lets not romanticise it and claim it was a place of enormous success and happiness.
We also only got out of there 5 minutes ago so it cant have been that great.
I feel the past is irrelevant anyhow. Things have changed dramatically since we left the JO in the 60s. Inner Urban design has changed. Demographics have changed. To me the JO is a place of the future and not the past. If anyone cant imagine it look at the Rabbitohs re-development in Redfern. The JO allows us to get new supporters. Pleasing says 'the number of supporters is fixed'. That is true for Seaford and Moorabbin but I feel that is where JO can make a step difference. Why is the number of supporters fixed in a growing population?

What I said was we have a fixed number of supporters as of today variations in membership year to year are mostly based on how many of that fixed number we convert into members. I went on to say long term there will always be kids and new arrivals who are yet to choose their team, but I don't think where we train will influence their choice of team at all. More likely as has been the case ever since teams stopped playing in the suburb they came from, they will choose one of the teams at the top of the ladder. I have so many Hawthorn supporting friends it's not funny but not one comes from a Hawthorn family. They chose them despite being nomads for much of the 70's 80's and 90's, having the worst colours in the history of professional sport and coming from a boring middle class suburb, purely on the basis that they won a lot. To be fair it has worked out pretty well for them over the years.

I get the romance of returning to St Kilda it would be exciting and it would mean a lot to me but I am already a member and I suspect it means a lot more to us rusted on Saints than it would to any as yet undecideds.

[gringo]

So after winning one flag by one point we conclude that Moorabbin was a successful base?

How many spoons did we win there? 7?

Let's move to the best place for the future - wherever that is... not some emotional-based relic of a flag we won 50 years ago.

I agree, Moorabin was not a happy home for people of my generation. It all comes back to finding a way to get out of our oppressive stadium deal though to me. JO could become a distraction while in the meantime the Dogs are a real chance to get to a point where they are able to play some interstate games at the Kennel. That means we are probably going to be needing to make up the difference for the stadium operators. The Cats get public money to upgrade their stadium which brings them $500 000 a game. We have to pay for the privilege of playing our home games at Etihad then get told we are poor financial managers and disdainfully ridiculed by teams like the Hawks. We should look at getting in on a deal with the Roos, Dogs etc and unionise to get the AFL to pay for their own stadium. Call their bluff and say we are going to need underwriting and not handouts. There is no way we should be paying their asset off while others question our credentials.

If we don't look for alternatives to the stadium deal we have we will always be struggling. The truth is the AFL made the Dogs, Roos and St kilda pay for Etihad because they wanted to move close to the city. Essendon got a sweetheart deal as an "anchor club" which means they play out of there but don't pay for it because they are already a big club. It's like Tony Abbott's budget, get the poor to do the heavy lifting and scoff at how clever your management is while sipping champagne out of the orifices of a few oligarchs. The AFL has shown themselves to be a s*** organisation that spends years and countless millions stopping Essendon from facing any kind of sanction for breaking the rules they make but can't be arsed doing anything to help out the clubs who are struggling due to stadium deals that should never have been allowed. The SA clubs will cop it soon too. If Port slips out of the 8 they will be getting a few million a year worse off playing at home.

You sound as off beat as Dave. Unionise with other clubs? What are you on about. The AFL basically own the clubs. Unfortunately whilst we are struggling on and off the field we have to do what they say. We have to work out a way of building our memberships like the hawks and Tigers and then we wont get pushed around. I agree with people who say we should train at the best place for the club and I don't care where that is as long as its just one venue. The only reason I like the idea of Moorabbin isn't because of the past but because of the future and that is the 10 million they are going to spend on it. If we can get some extra money we should be able to make it into a very good facility. And the idea of playing home games at anywhere but Etihad, the G or Wellington is fanciful and I don't think our club is dumb enough to spend a second thinking about it.

[kosifantutti]

Meanwhile back in StKilda

"Welcome the Saints and support their bid to return home to St Kilda. The Saints are holding an Open Day on 14 March in the O'Donnell Gardens. Wear you best black, white and red and come on down!'" - See more at: http://aclandstreetvillage.com.au/stkil ... EUfSV.dpuf

[plugger66]

So after winning one flag by one point we conclude that Moorabbin was a successful base?

How many spoons did we win there? 7?

Let's move to the best place for the future - wherever that is... not some emotional-based relic of a flag we won 50 years ago.

I agree, Moorabin was not a happy home for people of my generation. It all comes back to finding a way to get out of our oppressive stadium deal though to me. JO could become a distraction while in the meantime the Dogs are a real chance to get to a point where they are able to play some interstate games at the Kennel. That means we are probably going to be needing to make up the difference for the stadium operators. The Cats get public money to upgrade their stadium which brings them $500 000 a game. We have to pay for the privilege of playing our home games at Etihad then get told we are poor financial managers and disdainfully ridiculed by teams like the Hawks. We should look at getting in on a deal with the Roos, Dogs etc and unionise to get the AFL to pay for their own stadium. Call their bluff and say we are going to need underwriting and not handouts. There is no way we should be paying their asset off while others question our credentials.

If we don't look for alternatives to the stadium deal we have we will always be struggling. The truth is the AFL made the Dogs, Roos and St kilda pay for Etihad because they wanted to move close to the city. Essendon got a sweetheart deal as an "anchor club" which means they play out of there but don't pay for it because they are already a big club. It's like Tony Abbott's budget, get the poor to do the heavy lifting and scoff at how clever your management is while sipping champagne out of the orifices of a few oligarchs. The AFL has shown themselves to be a s*** organisation that spends years and countless millions stopping Essendon from facing any kind of sanction for breaking the rules they make but can't be arsed doing anything to help out the clubs who are struggling due to stadium deals that should never have been allowed. The SA clubs will cop it soon too. If Port slips out of the 8 they will be getting a few million a year worse off playing at home.

You sound as off beat as Dave. Unionise with other clubs? What are you on about. The AFL basically own the clubs. Unfortunately whilst we are struggling on and off the field we have to do what they say. We have to work out a way of building our memberships like the hawks and Tigers and then we wont get pushed around. I agree with people who say we should train at the best place for the club and I don't care where that is as long as its just one venue. The only reason I like the idea of Moorabbin isn't because of the past but because of the future and that is the 10 million they are going to spend on it. If we can get some extra money we should be able to make it into a very good facility. And the idea of playing home games at anywhere but Etihad, the G or Wellington is fanciful and I don't think our club is dumb enough to spend a second thinking about it.

Look all you like but the AFL can just so no unless you want to play in a 3 competition. You can hate the AFL all you like but you will find they are clearly the number one run organisation in Australian. And can you tell us apart from your emotive words what countless millions they spent helping Essendon. You seem upset with gillon. Don't you know anyone who knows his mums sister? Lets talk about the subject anyway and not your silly problem with the AFL. Im still trying to find all the kids that watch soccer compared to the AFL.

[The Fireman]

http://aclandstreetvillage.com.au/stkil ... e-marching

[gringo]

So after winning one flag by one point we conclude that Moorabbin was a successful base?

How many spoons did we win there? 7?

Let's move to the best place for the future - wherever that is... not some emotional-based relic of a flag we won 50 years ago.

I agree, Moorabin was not a happy home for people of my generation. It all comes back to finding a way to get out of our oppressive stadium deal though to me. JO could become a distraction while in the meantime the Dogs are a real chance to get to a point where they are able to play some interstate games at the Kennel. That means we are probably going to be needing to make up the difference for the stadium operators. The Cats get public money to upgrade their stadium which brings them $500 000 a game. We have to pay for the privilege of playing our home games at Etihad then get told we are poor financial managers and disdainfully ridiculed by teams like the Hawks. We should look at getting in on a deal with the Roos, Dogs etc and unionise to get the AFL to pay for their own stadium. Call their bluff and say we are going to need underwriting and not handouts. There is no way we should be paying their asset off while others question our credentials.

If we don't look for alternatives to the stadium deal we have we will always be struggling. The truth is the AFL made the Dogs, Roos and St kilda pay for Etihad because they wanted to move close to the city. Essendon got a sweetheart deal as an "anchor club" which means they play out of there but don't pay for it because they are already a big club. It's like Tony Abbott's budget, get the poor to do the heavy lifting and scoff at how clever your management is while sipping champagne out of the orifices of a few oligarchs. The AFL has shown themselves to be a s*** organisation that spends years and countless millions stopping Essendon from facing any kind of sanction for breaking the rules they make but can't be arsed doing anything to help out the clubs who are struggling due to stadium deals that should never have been allowed. The SA clubs will cop it soon too. If Port slips out of the 8 they will be getting a few million a year worse off playing at home.

You sound as off beat as Dave. Unionise with other clubs? What are you on about. The AFL basically own the clubs. Unfortunately whilst we are struggling on and off the field we have to do what they say. We have to work out a way of building our memberships like the hawks and Tigers and then we wont get pushed around. I agree with people who say we should train at the best place for the club and I don't care where that is as long as its just one venue. The only reason I like the idea of Moorabbin isn't because of the past but because of the future and that is the 10 million they are going to spend on it. If we can get some extra money we should be able to make it into a very good facility. And the idea of playing home games at anywhere but Etihad, the G or Wellington is fanciful and I don't think our club is dumb enough to spend a second thinking about it.

Look all you like but the AFL can just so no unless you want to play in a 3 competition. You can hate the AFL all you like but you will find they are clearly the number one run organisation in Australian. And can you tell us apart from your emotive words what countless millions they spent helping Essendon. You seem upset with gillon. Don't you know anyone who knows his mums sister? Lets talk about the subject anyway and not your silly problem with the AFL. Im still trying to find all the kids that watch soccer compared to the AFL.

My wifes close friend genuinely is a good friend of his. He was at her 40th birthday and I met him a couple of times before that including her wedding. He hangs out with her husband but she went to uni with him from memory before she met her husband. They are all lawyers so I'm not sure if he was studying law at the time but probably. He seems like a pretty ordinary guy, I actually didn't know he was so high up in the AFL when I first met him. His brother had a higher profile. Anyway I would suggest the AFL has gone from number one to back down low after the Bombers scandal. It shows how awful the Australian sports are run if they are the best.

[plugger66]

My wifes close friend genuinely is a good friend of his. He was at her 40th birthday and I met him a couple of times before that including her wedding. He hangs out with her husband but she went to uni with him from memory before she met her husband. They are all lawyers so I'm not sure if he was studying law at the time but probably. He seems like a pretty ordinary guy, I actually didn't know he was so high up in the AFL when I first met him. His brother had a higher profile. Anyway I would suggest the AFL has gone from number one to back down low after the Bombers scandal. It shows how awful the Australian sports are run if they are the best.

They are clearly number one still. Clearly not that matters at all. It has nothing to do with us training at any base. The one thing I do know is we will never play at the JO and why would we want to. I just cant see the thrill at all. I think dave has lost his mind. And I think you will find all sports around the world have as big issues as Australian sports.

[Dave McNamara]

[Con Gorozidis]

Good overview of clubs finances.

Places Saints 18th/18.

http://www.bigfooty.com/news/2015/03/af ... ces-rated/

To those who think the status quo is ok and steady as she goes - Its not ok.

We need a step change - and imho JO offers a chance of that.
Otherwise we will just stay as perennial strugglers (which I think suits a few posters on here personally).

[kosifantutti]

Don't forget the meet and greet opportunity in StKilda on Saturday.

http://aclandstreetvillage.com.au/stkil ... e-marching

[plugger66]

Good overview of clubs finances.

Places Saints 18th/18.

http://www.bigfooty.com/news/2015/03/af ... ces-rated/

To those who think the status quo is ok and steady as she goes - Its not ok.

We need a step change - and imho JO offers a chance of that.
Otherwise we will just stay as perennial strugglers (which I think suits a few posters on here personally).

Interesting if you could name the posters who would like us to be perennial strugglers. I certainly wouldn't think there would be to many if any. I certainly would hope not.

[White Winmar]

Good overview of clubs finances.

Places Saints 18th/18.

http://www.bigfooty.com/news/2015/03/af ... ces-rated/

To those who think the status quo is ok and steady as she goes - Its not ok.

We need a step change - and imho JO offers a chance of that.
Otherwise we will just stay as perennial strugglers (which I think suits a few posters on here personally).

Interesting if you could name the posters who would like us to be perennial strugglers. I certainly wouldn't think there would be to many if any. I certainly would hope not.

City West, for one.

[plugger66]

Good overview of clubs finances.

Places Saints 18th/18.

http://www.bigfooty.com/news/2015/03/af ... ces-rated/

To those who think the status quo is ok and steady as she goes - Its not ok.

We need a step change - and imho JO offers a chance of that.
Otherwise we will just stay as perennial strugglers (which I think suits a few posters on here personally).

Interesting if you could name the posters who would like us to be perennial strugglers. I certainly wouldn't think there would be to many if any. I certainly would hope not.

City West, for one.

Sorry I should have said name the saints supporters.

[ausfatcat]

Good overview of clubs finances.

Places Saints 18th/18.

http://www.bigfooty.com/news/2015/03/af ... ces-rated/

To those who think the status quo is ok and steady as she goes - Its not ok.

We need a step change - and imho JO offers a chance of that.
Otherwise we will just stay as perennial strugglers (which I think suits a few posters on here personally).

those assets figures don't seem right to me

[Dave McNamara]

those assets figures don't seem right to me

Too late to be bothered going through a few of those anal reports (not a typo), but I'd tend to agree.


For example, the Dawks assets are way more, due to the once-in-a-lifetime offer whereby Mirbank (or whomever it was that built that housing development in the middle of nowhere)... that handed them owership of their headquarters for some peppercorn fee.

At the other end of things ... not sure that we have $13mil in real world liquidatable assets(?)

[Dave McNamara]

The tuggers are an interesting one...

11. Richmond

Ownership Structure: Membership, Limited by Guarantee
2014 Revenue: $44,408,127
2014 Profit: $1,329,530
2014 Assets: $29,345,548
2014 Annual Report
As the phoenix continues to rise so do the fortunes of the Richmond football club, as the fellows from Punt Road set new records in membership revenue, sponsorship revenue and coterie revenue, as well as running a tight, efficient ship. The club is every chance of passing Collingwood for members in the near future.

They've been the most crap side since the creation of the AFL. So if they can achieve this, think how much (even) better we could do tapping into our St Kilda vibe.

Punt Road and Richmond... not too bad, plenty to work on there... but can't hold a candle to a club in Funky Town.



And there's Pluggs (front and centre... nice sunnies, Pluggs ).







I ask again (rhetorically)... what possible benefit could there be, for an AFL club to be linked in the punter's (and sponsor's) minds with these kinda' images, and with the wonderful and vibrant times (and memories) that they conjure up...?






As an aside, due to laughable recruiting (till very recently), I reckon this tuggers side has peaked, and at a level nowhere good enough to challenge for a flag. Will be interesting to see if the phoenix self-combusts again in the next couple of seasons...

[mr six o'clock]

Good overview of clubs finances.

Places Saints 18th/18.

http://www.bigfooty.com/news/2015/03/af ... ces-rated/

To those who think the status quo is ok and steady as she goes - Its not ok.

We need a step change - and imho JO offers a chance of that.
Otherwise we will just stay as perennial strugglers (which I think suits a few posters on here personally).

Interesting if you could name the posters who would like us to be perennial strugglers. I certainly wouldn't think there would be to many if any. I certainly would hope not.

City West, for one.

Sorry I should have said name the saints supporters.

That's funny
cos its true !

[plugger66]

The tuggers are an interesting one...

11. Richmond

Ownership Structure: Membership, Limited by Guarantee
2014 Revenue: $44,408,127
2014 Profit: $1,329,530
2014 Assets: $29,345,548
2014 Annual Report
As the phoenix continues to rise so do the fortunes of the Richmond football club, as the fellows from Punt Road set new records in membership revenue, sponsorship revenue and coterie revenue, as well as running a tight, efficient ship. The club is every chance of passing Collingwood for members in the near future.

They've been the most crap side since the creation of the AFL. So if they can achieve this, think how much (even) better we could do tapping into our St Kilda vibe.

Punt Road and Richmond... not too bad, plenty to work on there... but can't hold a candle to a club in Funky Town.



And there's Pluggs (front and centre... nice sunnies, Pluggs ).







I ask again (rhetorically)... what possible benefit could there be, for an AFL club to be linked in the punter's (and sponsor's) minds with these kinda' images, and with the wonderful and vibrant times (and memories) that they conjure up...?






As an aside, due to laughable recruiting (till very recently), I reckon this tuggers side has peaked, and at a level nowhere good enough to challenge for a flag. Will be interesting to see if the phoenix self-combusts again in the next couple of seasons...

I just wish you would use facts instead of irrelevant pictures.

[Con Gorozidis]

Not directly relevant but some other clubs are forging ahead while we are treading water.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-03-10/a ... al-reached

[remboy]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/s ... 7258965622

This might change things a bit.