Improved?

[freely]

Last season lonie and gears were (largely) the whipping boys on here. This season we struggle without them. So - setting aside the parkers and Paton's etc - that's two players who've presumably improved.

[spert]

Ladder position must be our indicator- after all, if we're in the 8 at the end of the home-and-aways, then we play finals, and that's what improvement is. Whatever happens outside the final 8 means little. So far so good, but we must not drop away.

[Scollop]

Last season lonie and gears were (largely) the whipping boys on here. This season we struggle without them. So - setting aside the parkers and Paton's etc - that's two players who've presumably improved.

I was thinking the same thing after Lonie went down during the match.

After the game however, I realised that it's not that they've really improved, but it's more that their work rate and their effort and their attitude has been replicated by more players in the team.Geary has always put in his body on the line and when we are playing better as a team, people acknowledge each individual playing their role. Lonie still has room for improvement.

When Lonie gives second and third efforts and is desperate to retain the ball in our forward line, the others know that there is a standard to follow. Lonie still misses way too many shots at goal, but he definitely deserves his spot in our forward line for the progress he made in 2018.

When your leader is fearless, you have no choice but to copy. I have always valued what Geary brings as a player while acknowledging that he has some weaknesses. Gears is missed as much for his captaincy (i.e on field leadership) rather than purely what he offers as a small defender. They can certainly be part of a Saints revival and a march to September, but will either ever make an All Australian squad?

[freely]

Last season lonie and gears were (largely) the whipping boys on here. This season we struggle without them. So - setting aside the parkers and Paton's etc - that's two players who've presumably improved.

I was thinking the same thing after Lonie went down during the match.

After the game however, I realised that it's not that they've really improved, but it's more that their work rate and their effort and their attitude has been replicated by more players in the team.Geary has always put in his body on the line and when we are playing better as a team, people acknowledge each individual playing their role. Lonie still has room for improvement.

When Lonie gives second and third efforts and is desperate to retain the ball in our forward line, the others know that there is a standard to follow. Lonie still misses way too many shots at goal, but he definitely deserves his spot in our forward line for the progress he made in 2018.

When your leader is fearless, you have no choice but to copy. I have always valued what Geary brings as a player while acknowledging that he has some weaknesses. Gears is missed as much for his captaincy (i.e on field leadership) rather than purely what he offers as a small defender. They can certainly be part of a Saints revival and a march to September, but will either ever make an All Australian squad?

Excellent post. Makes an interesting point. You need such players for their attitude and commitment. I was always expecting it to come from Dunstan - I guess it might yet. Ideally the same players are also champions but you're never going to have 22 of those - so what you need is for your non-champions to be playing with this much spirit. It's a variation on 'you can't be what you can't see' and 'the standard you walk past is the standard you accept'.

[BarryGrogan]

*bump*

Still can't kick more than 70 odd points, still have no system going into F50.

The only difference is that over the past 5 weeks we've played decent teams.

[kosifantutti]

So Melbourne is a decent team now. It was only four weeks ago but I assume you meant over the last five games.

[Joffa Burns]

NO LONIE, NO SAINTS!

[spert]

Time to focus on Gresh- so much talent but appears lazy and waiting for the easy possession too much. We rate this guy, but he is playing ordinary footy like some of his mates. If our more highly fancied players are just playing like GOPs, then we're going nowhere in a hurry.

[Yorkeys]

Improved from what? 7 wins from last 30 games. 23%. Is improved the question or is it how far off acceptable standard we are. Brisbane was a half a win ahead of us end of 2018 season. Now fourth and looking solid there. That's possibly what improvement looks like. I am mightily impressed with Richo's ability to have the board accept he is the right man for the job and keep on saying it publicly and the lack of heat the media bring to his pressers. I understand the board wanting to hang tough just a bit longer, I'd be scared of change if you were risking a strike rate like that; look at the honours he has brought to the club (and not the wasted games invested into Mav). What do they think can possibly happen worse if we change coaches, bottom 2? not the bottom 4 spot we have made our own. But what if a new coach could generate improvement...nah, can't see it. And winning isn't everything.

[twirlyhair]

With our senior players out, you just can't compare to last year or year before. We are much better coached this year for sure, but without the likes of Carlisle and our best player in Steven, and don't forget our captain, how can anyone say whether we have improved or not?

[SydneySainter]

With our senior players out, you just can't compare to last year or year before. We are much better coached this year for sure, but without the likes of Carlisle and our best player in Steven, and don't forget our captain, how can anyone say whether we have improved or not?

This says a lot about our depth, or lack there of it.

Billings, Acres, Bruce, Gresh and Sinclair have played quite a lot of senior footy now and are supposed to be the core of our new brigade. If outs like Geary, Carlisle and Steven are enough to put us on this losing streak - then the reality is that we’re not a very good team.

[nw7]

We need another go to forward. Josh Bruce plays the odd good game or good quarter but hes not really the player thats going to finish the hard work up the ground. When he gets the best defender he struggles. I know Battle is playning well down back but we need 3 tallish players forward. I would lije to see Membrey, Bruce and Battle given a go and Bruce playing as 2nd Ruck.

[Special]

We need another go to forward. Josh Bruce plays the odd good game or good quarter but hes not really the player thats going to finish the hard work up the ground. When he gets the best defender he struggles. I know Battle is playning well down back but we need 3 tallish players forward. I would lije to see Membrey, Bruce and Battle given a go and Bruce playing as 2nd Ruck.

King will be

Sppppeeeecccciaaalllll!

Oh Brucey oh Brucey he’s another Cyril

[Josh Battle]

NO LONIE, NO SAINTS!

No Richo, GO Saints

How long do you need in the top job? Who is he blaming for the team sitting at the bottom of the ladder the last 2 years? We have gone backwards during his time and the team is going nowhere

If we had a different coach during our rebuild...like Mark Williams for expample....I reckon we'd be playing finals by now

We need someone with hardness and someone like Stewy Dew. They put up a graphic on Footy Classified on Monday which showed all the close games that Gold Coast Suns have been involved in this year. The commentators were debating whether Dew is coach of the year so far and if their effort this year is better than Tigers or Hawthorn(with their injuries) or Brisbane or Port or Geelong (top of the ladder). This is what Brisbane were also doing last year.

Round 1 vs Saints. 1 point Loss
Round 2 vs Fremantle. 3 point Win
Round 3 vs W Bulldogs 5 point Win
Round 4 vs Carlton. 2 point Win
Round 8 vs Melbourne. 1 point Loss

[BarryGrogan]

I just had a quick look, and we are not in the top 8 for any team stat this year.

[BarryGrogan]

You’re just cherrypicking statistics to “prove” that we haven’t improved.

At this stage last year we had 6 points, and 71%. Currently 16 points and 105 percent.

I haven’t checked the bounces to tosses won ratio but I reckon we’re doing better than last year.

What are your thoughts now?

[SaintPav]

I think it's too hard to tell given the injury list.

[6621104]

we have found some best 22 players : Marshall (any side would pick him up); Parker- still yet to settle but has more upside than Long; early but Hind has spark, can kick and has speed; to complement the list of known talent. A backline of Carlisle, Battle, Webster, MacKenzie, Geary, Savage is not so bad whilst Clavarino learns the craft. The forwards - we know a list with Membrey, Bruce, King, and smalls will be competitive.
Our midfield sucks - Hannerbury, Gresham, Steele, Steven (may be on the move) need some added class - we have some trade value (OK late picks) - Ross and Dunstan to go!
So we need a ruck to support Marshall, some mid class and King to be the player we all hoped McCartin would be!

[WellardSaint]

we have found some best 22 players : Marshall (any side would pick him up); Parker- still yet to settle but has more upside than Long; early but Hind has spark, can kick and has speed; to complement the list of known talent. A backline of Carlisle, Battle, Webster, MacKenzie, Geary, Savage is not so bad whilst Clavarino learns the craft. The forwards - we know a list with Membrey, Bruce, King, and smalls will be competitive.
Our midfield sucks - Hannerbury, Gresham, Steele, Steven (may be on the move) need some added class - we have some trade value (OK late picks) - Ross and Dunstan to go!
So we need a ruck to support Marshall, some mid class and King to be the player we all hoped McCartin would be!

DMack might be Ok if he gets some games in a row to really work on his craft.
Gears is a ball butcher, be honest. Lock down specialist but please handball it, don't kick FFS.
Baroose had 2 good games, one against the Bombers, but he's a liability. Maybe stop playing him as back-up ruck
for 5 games and see if he can come good.

[To the top]

Why the focus on the third quarter - even by Ross paraded to the media as Acting Captain

The facts were that they came out ready to play - and dominated from the start of the game

We were lucky to be close on the scoreboard at quarter time then, heading to half time, they reaped the benefit of their domination setting the tone for what happened in the third quarter

We were outclassed all day - from the opening bounce until the final siren

Well over half our players failed to contribute in any way - not even by negating an opponent which used to be the first requirement in such circumstances

I normally do not rate by looking at possession numbers or the goal kickers but those at the foot of the possession numbers was the commentary on Saturday

And on goal scoring what do you expect with Parker, Hind and Kent plus a mid (our mids not noted for their goal kicking feats) to support the under sized Membrey and Bruce whose form is too variable?

You are not going to kick many goals when your selection is “defensive forwards” plus you have no talk targets

Brisbane defended us brilliantly - the problem being it was just too easy for them to do so

Then there was their ruck dominance (thank you for releasing Hickey to West Coast and retaining Longer for what reasons again?), their clearance domination (and Ross talks about accountability when he was right up there in regard the lack of accountability), had too much pace for us across the ground, too much inventiveness assisted by having greater numbers at the contest therefore options, winning the one plus numbers easily and, to boot, they dominated us in the marking contests

And that was all from the start of the game - not just in the third quarter

To refer to the third quarter is delusional (as is the unquestioning status of players on our List starting from the Captain and telling in regards the Coach)

I also criticise the inclusion of “winning a final in 2019” in the Coach Contract because what that has led to is deficient experienced players being selected ahead of recognising this side is in rebuild phase following the future generation neglect of the Lyon years

I have the experience of a Club where next generation was neglected in favour of recruiting experienced players, then the lean years as the scouring took place to introduce class youth (and there were a couple of hard experienced players recruited to “protect” that youth coming thru

The result was a very successful number of years - including because the lessons were learned and not forgotten

James should know that history - from Bob to Phillip

[Crossy66]

Why the focus on the third quarter - even by Ross paraded to the media as Acting Captain

The facts were that they came out ready to play - and dominated from the start of the game

We were lucky to be close on the scoreboard at quarter time then, heading to half time, they reaped the benefit of their domination setting the tone for what happened in the third quarter

We were outclassed all day - from the opening bounce until the final siren

Well over half our players failed to contribute in any way - not even by negating an opponent which used to be the first requirement in such circumstances

I normally do not rate by looking at possession numbers or the goal kickers but those at the foot of the possession numbers was the commentary on Saturday

And on goal scoring what do you expect with Parker, Hind and Kent plus a mid (our mids not noted for their goal kicking feats) to support the under sized Membrey and Bruce whose form is too variable?

You are not going to kick many goals when your selection is “defensive forwards” plus you have no talk targets

Brisbane defended us brilliantly - the problem being it was just too easy for them to do so

Then there was their ruck dominance (thank you for releasing Hickey to West Coast and retaining Longer for what reasons again?), their clearance domination (and Ross talks about accountability when he was right up there in regard the lack of accountability), had too much pace for us across the ground, too much inventiveness assisted by having greater numbers at the contest therefore options, winning the one plus numbers easily and, to boot, they dominated us in the marking contests

And that was all from the start of the game - not just in the third quarter

To refer to the third quarter is delusional (as is the unquestioning status of players on our List starting from the Captain and telling in regards the Coach)

I also criticise the inclusion of “winning a final in 2019” in the Coach Contract because what that has led to is deficient experienced players being selected ahead of recognising this side is in rebuild phase following the future generation neglect of the Lyon years

I have the experience of a Club where next generation was neglected in favour of recruiting experienced players, then the lean years as the scouring took place to introduce class youth (and there were a couple of hard experienced players recruited to “protect” that youth coming thru

The result was a very successful number of years - including because the lessons were learned and not forgotten

James should know that history - from Bob to Phillip

Dont get the last 3 paragraphs

[To the top]

The last paragraph should have read Sam to Phillip

Bob to Duncan replicated the in between period also

As did other icon family names

[Moods]

A season of footy should be judged on its entirety. Not in the 1st 5 rounds and not in the first 14 rounds.

However, things are not looking good. We have NOT improved in my view. the first 5 - 6 rounds were a mirage - much like 2017. The exact same problems still exist as last year. We can't score, we can't kick straight, we turn the ball over too often. Our mids are weak and ineffectual. Our ruck stocks lack depth. Our backline lacks depth in the talls. Our fwd line is possibly the weakest in the comp. Membery is the only key fwd that would get a game in another team.

Marshall and Battle have been revelations, however Marshall is still way too small physically to compete against the great rucks. We are simply treading water and slowly sinking.

[Crossy66]

The last paragraph should have read Sam to Phillip

Bob to Duncan replicated the in between period also

As did other icon family names

clear as mud

[To the top]

Clear as mud is that we have a missing generation.

And we are not the first to be so blighted.

But, with patience it can be turned around by identifying and developing youth AND adding a couple of mature, hard, class "enforcer" players to give guidance and protection to that youth.

The Club James Gallagher comes from is a template - and it took 10 years to achieve the ultimate (from the slide, resulting in bottom a couple of years into the 10 year period, to top).

You also need a strong and focused Administration which is totally ruthless.

So no favorites.

Neither players nor Coaches.