ITK's?????

[Myron Gaines]

Jaxons clearly was an ITK.


But around the time he reported Williams was getting the coaching gig, things seemed to turn sour.

Richo getting the job seemed to agitate him. His posting suggested that he was filthy with Finnis for that decision itself and/or being blindsided by it.

The angst toward Finnis and the club seemed to start at that point.

The posting then seemed to go from first hand knowledge, to second or third hand. It gave me the impression that Jaxons was no longer directly involved at the club, or his/her source wasn't.


That's just my take on it. Either way, jaxons' input on this site was outstanding. However now that the goss doesn't appear to be first hand, and has a real whiff of resentment to it (particularly toward Finnis) I don't find it quite as interesting.

Still love the input, but I take it more as merely someone's opinion, as opposed to interesting ITK stuff.

Reported the precise trade details for McEvoy-Savage, Longer & a few others from memory.

Stated prior to the draft that if Gresham was avail we’d take him. I don’t believe anyone in the media linked him to us.

Pretty sure Williams was all but done because Richo initially ruled us out. Things obviously changed.

Jaxons was a good poster that got ran out of the forum by a few grubs simple as that.

[rodgerfox]

Jaxons clearly was an ITK.


But around the time he reported Williams was getting the coaching gig, things seemed to turn sour.

Richo getting the job seemed to agitate him. His posting suggested that he was filthy with Finnis for that decision itself and/or being blindsided by it.

The angst toward Finnis and the club seemed to start at that point.

The posting then seemed to go from first hand knowledge, to second or third hand. It gave me the impression that Jaxons was no longer directly involved at the club, or his/her source wasn't.


That's just my take on it. Either way, jaxons' input on this site was outstanding. However now that the goss doesn't appear to be first hand, and has a real whiff of resentment to it (particularly toward Finnis) I don't find it quite as interesting.

Still love the input, but I take it more as merely someone's opinion, as opposed to interesting ITK stuff.

Reported the precise trade details for McEvoy-Savage, Longer & a few others from memory.

Stated prior to the draft that if Gresham was avail we’d take him. I don’t believe anyone in the media linked him to us.

Pretty sure Williams was all but done because Richo initially ruled us out. Things obviously changed.

Jaxons was a good poster that got ran out of the forum by a few grubs simple as that.

Not sure what your point is?

[Cairnsman]

Jaxons clearly was an ITK.


But around the time he reported Williams was getting the coaching gig, things seemed to turn sour.

Richo getting the job seemed to agitate him. His posting suggested that he was filthy with Finnis for that decision itself and/or being blindsided by it.

The angst toward Finnis and the club seemed to start at that point.

The posting then seemed to go from first hand knowledge, to second or third hand. It gave me the impression that Jaxons was no longer directly involved at the club, or his/her source wasn't.


That's just my take on it. Either way, jaxons' input on this site was outstanding. However now that the goss doesn't appear to be first hand, and has a real whiff of resentment to it (particularly toward Finnis) I don't find it quite as interesting.

Still love the input, but I take it more as merely someone's opinion, as opposed to interesting ITK stuff.

There have been guesses along the journey that Jaxons is Mark Finey, I wouldn't know but a believable guess merely based on Finey's closer proximity to club sources than the average supporter. So let's assume for a moment that Jaxons = Finey, does that make Finey an ITK? I've always wondered what the definition of an ITK is. And the observation about resentment growing seemed to coincide with Finey getting the sack after 13 years and our our poor season.

[Myron Gaines]

Jaxons clearly was an ITK.


But around the time he reported Williams was getting the coaching gig, things seemed to turn sour.

Richo getting the job seemed to agitate him. His posting suggested that he was filthy with Finnis for that decision itself and/or being blindsided by it.

The angst toward Finnis and the club seemed to start at that point.

The posting then seemed to go from first hand knowledge, to second or third hand. It gave me the impression that Jaxons was no longer directly involved at the club, or his/her source wasn't.


That's just my take on it. Either way, jaxons' input on this site was outstanding. However now that the goss doesn't appear to be first hand, and has a real whiff of resentment to it (particularly toward Finnis) I don't find it quite as interesting.

Still love the input, but I take it more as merely someone's opinion, as opposed to interesting ITK stuff.

Reported the precise trade details for McEvoy-Savage, Longer & a few others from memory.

Stated prior to the draft that if Gresham was avail we’d take him. I don’t believe anyone in the media linked him to us.

Pretty sure Williams was all but done because Richo initially ruled us out. Things obviously changed.

Jaxons was a good poster that got ran out of the forum by a few grubs simple as that.

Not sure what your point is?

Backing up your point?

[rodgerfox]

Jaxons clearly was an ITK.


But around the time he reported Williams was getting the coaching gig, things seemed to turn sour.

Richo getting the job seemed to agitate him. His posting suggested that he was filthy with Finnis for that decision itself and/or being blindsided by it.

The angst toward Finnis and the club seemed to start at that point.

The posting then seemed to go from first hand knowledge, to second or third hand. It gave me the impression that Jaxons was no longer directly involved at the club, or his/her source wasn't.


That's just my take on it. Either way, jaxons' input on this site was outstanding. However now that the goss doesn't appear to be first hand, and has a real whiff of resentment to it (particularly toward Finnis) I don't find it quite as interesting.

Still love the input, but I take it more as merely someone's opinion, as opposed to interesting ITK stuff.

Reported the precise trade details for McEvoy-Savage, Longer & a few others from memory.

Stated prior to the draft that if Gresham was avail we’d take him. I don’t believe anyone in the media linked him to us.

Pretty sure Williams was all but done because Richo initially ruled us out. Things obviously changed.

Jaxons was a good poster that got ran out of the forum by a few grubs simple as that.

Not sure what your point is?

Backing up your point?

Was it? Couldn't quite understand it.

[Myron Gaines]

Jaxons clearly was an ITK.


But around the time he reported Williams was getting the coaching gig, things seemed to turn sour.

Richo getting the job seemed to agitate him. His posting suggested that he was filthy with Finnis for that decision itself and/or being blindsided by it.

The angst toward Finnis and the club seemed to start at that point.

The posting then seemed to go from first hand knowledge, to second or third hand. It gave me the impression that Jaxons was no longer directly involved at the club, or his/her source wasn't.


That's just my take on it. Either way, jaxons' input on this site was outstanding. However now that the goss doesn't appear to be first hand, and has a real whiff of resentment to it (particularly toward Finnis) I don't find it quite as interesting.

Still love the input, but I take it more as merely someone's opinion, as opposed to interesting ITK stuff.

Reported the precise trade details for McEvoy-Savage, Longer & a few others from memory.

Stated prior to the draft that if Gresham was avail we’d take him. I don’t believe anyone in the media linked him to us.

Pretty sure Williams was all but done because Richo initially ruled us out. Things obviously changed.

Jaxons was a good poster that got ran out of the forum by a few grubs simple as that.

Not sure what your point is?

Backing up your point?

Was it? Couldn't quite understand it.

“Jaxons clearly was an itk”.

I then provided examples of why he clearly was an itk.

Good chat.

[Mr Magic]

Jaxons clearly was an ITK.


But around the time he reported Williams was getting the coaching gig, things seemed to turn sour.

Richo getting the job seemed to agitate him. His posting suggested that he was filthy with Finnis for that decision itself and/or being blindsided by it.

The angst toward Finnis and the club seemed to start at that point.

The posting then seemed to go from first hand knowledge, to second or third hand. It gave me the impression that Jaxons was no longer directly involved at the club, or his/her source wasn't.


That's just my take on it. Either way, jaxons' input on this site was outstanding. However now that the goss doesn't appear to be first hand, and has a real whiff of resentment to it (particularly toward Finnis) I don't find it quite as interesting.

Still love the input, but I take it more as merely someone's opinion, as opposed to interesting ITK stuff.

There have been guesses along the journey that Jaxons is Mark Finey, I wouldn't know but a believable guess merely based on Finey's closer proximity to club sources than the average supporter. So let's assume for a moment that Jaxons = Finey, does that make Finey an ITK? I've always wondered what the definition of an ITK is. And the observation about resentment growing seemed to coincide with Finey getting the sack after 13 years and our our poor season.

I'd be staggered if Jaxons was actually Mark Fine.
BUT let's say for the sake of the debate that he is.
Finey was sacked from SEN not St Kilda so that wouldn't seem to logically be the reason for him (as Jaxons) to suddenly turn on the Club.

[rodgerfox]

Jaxons clearly was an ITK.


But around the time he reported Williams was getting the coaching gig, things seemed to turn sour.

Richo getting the job seemed to agitate him. His posting suggested that he was filthy with Finnis for that decision itself and/or being blindsided by it.

The angst toward Finnis and the club seemed to start at that point.

The posting then seemed to go from first hand knowledge, to second or third hand. It gave me the impression that Jaxons was no longer directly involved at the club, or his/her source wasn't.


That's just my take on it. Either way, jaxons' input on this site was outstanding. However now that the goss doesn't appear to be first hand, and has a real whiff of resentment to it (particularly toward Finnis) I don't find it quite as interesting.

Still love the input, but I take it more as merely someone's opinion, as opposed to interesting ITK stuff.

Reported the precise trade details for McEvoy-Savage, Longer & a few others from memory.

Stated prior to the draft that if Gresham was avail we’d take him. I don’t believe anyone in the media linked him to us.

Pretty sure Williams was all but done because Richo initially ruled us out. Things obviously changed.

Jaxons was a good poster that got ran out of the forum by a few grubs simple as that.

Not sure what your point is?

Backing up your point?

Was it? Couldn't quite understand it.

“Jaxons clearly was an itk”.

I then provided examples of why he clearly was an itk.

Good chat.

This part threw me:

"Jaxons was a good poster that got ran out of the forum by a few grubs simple as that."


That doesn't align with my point at all.

[asiu]

''turning on the club" ... might be a bit harsh

if we are looking for a moment when his 'vibe' changed down a gear
... it was probably as Shostack was out manouvered

[Cairnsman]

Jaxons clearly was an ITK.


But around the time he reported Williams was getting the coaching gig, things seemed to turn sour.

Richo getting the job seemed to agitate him. His posting suggested that he was filthy with Finnis for that decision itself and/or being blindsided by it.

The angst toward Finnis and the club seemed to start at that point.

The posting then seemed to go from first hand knowledge, to second or third hand. It gave me the impression that Jaxons was no longer directly involved at the club, or his/her source wasn't.


That's just my take on it. Either way, jaxons' input on this site was outstanding. However now that the goss doesn't appear to be first hand, and has a real whiff of resentment to it (particularly toward Finnis) I don't find it quite as interesting.

Still love the input, but I take it more as merely someone's opinion, as opposed to interesting ITK stuff.

There have been guesses along the journey that Jaxons is Mark Finey, I wouldn't know but a believable guess merely based on Finey's closer proximity to club sources than the average supporter. So let's assume for a moment that Jaxons = Finey, does that make Finey an ITK? I've always wondered what the definition of an ITK is. And the observation about resentment growing seemed to coincide with Finey getting the sack after 13 years and our our poor season.

I'd be staggered if Jaxons was actually Mark Fine.
BUT let's say for the sake of the debate that he is.
Finey was sacked from SEN not St Kilda so that wouldn't seem to logically be the reason for him (as Jaxons) to suddenly turn on the Club.

I probably didn't articulate well, I'm suggesting an ITK is not someone in the inner sanctum, whereas Jaxon's offerings over the journey have had the appearance of being someone that is privi to the occasional piece of information as a result of being employed by or being close to someone in an AFL connected industry as well as being a saints person. Finey fits that description. The suggestion that his negativity and resentment has coincided around the time of his sacking and the clubs poor performance was a suggestion he is no longer privi to the occasional piece of information and hence he is now just one of us, without a clue about what happens in the inner sanctum and is bitter and twisted and free to unload as a result of the clubs poor 2018 which probably hasn't been helped due to his unemployment status

[Mr Magic]

I probably didn't articulate well, I'm suggesting an ITK is not someone in the inner sanctum, whereas Jaxon's offerings over the journey have had the appearance of being someone that is privi to the occasional piece of information as a result of being employed by or being close to someone in an AFL connected industry as well as being a saints person. Finey fits that description. The suggestion that his negativity and resentment has coincided around the time of his sacking and the clubs poor performance was a suggestion he is no longer privi to the occasional piece of information and hence he is now just one of us, without a clue about what happens in the inner sanctum and is bitter and twisted and free to unload as a result of the clubs poor 2018 which probably hasn't been helped due to his unemployment status

Understood, and could be correct.

I don't claim to have any real knowledge on the situation.
My whole angst in this episode is the 'acceptance as fact' the statement from Jaxons regarding 'our presentation' because he's an 'ITK'.
I just don't believe, for a number of reasons, that denigrating portrayal of our presentation to Shiel that he posted.
And I find it staggering that some posters just accept it without question.

[SuperDuper]

Jaxons has been a great contributor to this forum.

Like all good saints fans, he was clearly very disappointed in our 2018 season and frustrated with it, and he vented on this forum. Hardly a hanging offense for a saints fan after such a year. If he were not frustrated, then i would question his credentials as a saints fan.

On many occasions he has also been very positive about the saints.

So.. let the guy/girl vent every now and then like every other poster and lets move on.

I hope he/she keeps posting.

[skeptic]

Jaxons has been a great contributor to this forum.

Like all good saints fans, he was clearly very disappointed in our 2018 season and frustrated with it, and he vented on this forum. Hardly a hanging offense for a saints fan after such a year. If he were not frustrated, then i would question his credentials as a saints fan.

On many occasions he has also been very positive about the saints.

So.. let the guy/girl vent every now and then like every other poster and lets move on.

I hope he/she keeps posting.

You are correct, however I think MM’s concern/frustration comes from the notion of something being stated as a fact that appears as such unproven...
Directly or indirectly, Jaxon’s reputation as an ITK has suggested this unproven tidbit is true.

At the moment, there is a lot of “my opinion is worth more than yours just because” on this forum.

I like Jaxons a lot but take MM’s point here

[Mr Magic]

Jaxons has been a great contributor to this forum.

Like all good saints fans, he was clearly very disappointed in our 2018 season and frustrated with it, and he vented on this forum. Hardly a hanging offense for a saints fan after such a year. If he were not frustrated, then i would question his credentials as a saints fan.

On many occasions he has also been very positive about the saints.

So.. let the guy/girl vent every now and then like every other poster and lets move on.

I hope he/she keeps posting.

You are correct, however I think MM’s concern/frustration comes from the notion of something being stated as a fact that appears as such unproven...
Directly or indirectly, Jaxon’s reputation as an ITK has suggested this unproven tidbit is true.

At the moment, there is a lot of “my opinion is worth more than yours just because” on this forum.

I like Jaxons a lot but take MM’s point here

Thank you skeptic,
You've managed to articulate my point exactly and much better than I've been able to.

[David-Lee]

I probably didn't articulate well, I'm suggesting an ITK is not someone in the inner sanctum, whereas Jaxon's offerings over the journey have had the appearance of being someone that is privi to the occasional piece of information as a result of being employed by or being close to someone in an AFL connected industry as well as being a saints person. Finey fits that description. The suggestion that his negativity and resentment has coincided around the time of his sacking and the clubs poor performance was a suggestion he is no longer privi to the occasional piece of information and hence he is now just one of us, without a clue about what happens in the inner sanctum and is bitter and twisted and free to unload as a result of the clubs poor 2018 which probably hasn't been helped due to his unemployment status

Understood, and could be correct.

I don't claim to have any real knowledge on the situation.
My whole angst in this episode is the 'acceptance as fact' the statement from Jaxons regarding 'our presentation' because he's an 'ITK'.
I just don't believe, for a number of reasons, that denigrating portrayal of our presentation to Shiel that he posted.
And I find it staggering that some posters just accept it without question.

I too heard that "we blew it" with the presentation - not the staff or ex players but the club vision and strategy to back it up. Richo came off a bit scattered was the story, but supposedly he'd had influenza pretty bad. When he tried to explain why coming to club was the right thing Shiels literally asked for a break and went outside talking on his phone for 20 odd minutes.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. So well done Jaxons.

[SuperDuper]

Jaxons has been a great contributor to this forum.

Like all good saints fans, he was clearly very disappointed in our 2018 season and frustrated with it, and he vented on this forum. Hardly a hanging offense for a saints fan after such a year. If he were not frustrated, then i would question his credentials as a saints fan.

On many occasions he has also been very positive about the saints.

So.. let the guy/girl vent every now and then like every other poster and lets move on.

I hope he/she keeps posting.

You are correct, however I think MM’s concern/frustration comes from the notion of something being stated as a fact that appears as such unproven...
Directly or indirectly, Jaxon’s reputation as an ITK has suggested this unproven tidbit is true.

At the moment, there is a lot of “my opinion is worth more than yours just because” on this forum.

I like Jaxons a lot but take MM’s point here

Thank you skeptic,
You've managed to articulate my point exactly and much better than I've been able to.

Jaxons has consistently given accurate information. But he is still allowed to have an opinion like all of us. Of course his comments were not "fact", they were an assessment of our presentation made by someone who is frustrated by our season.

A fact is "we will trade Stanley for pick 21".... that can be tested against whether or not Stanley gets traded for pick 21...

"the presentation was s***" is an opinion that you can take or leave

As I said, let Jaxons vent like the rest of us.. and lets move on and hope he is not sick of posting because he seems to get held to different standards than the rest of us

[Mr Magic]

Jaxons has been a great contributor to this forum.

Like all good saints fans, he was clearly very disappointed in our 2018 season and frustrated with it, and he vented on this forum. Hardly a hanging offense for a saints fan after such a year. If he were not frustrated, then i would question his credentials as a saints fan.

On many occasions he has also been very positive about the saints.

So.. let the guy/girl vent every now and then like every other poster and lets move on.

I hope he/she keeps posting.

You are correct, however I think MM’s concern/frustration comes from the notion of something being stated as a fact that appears as such unproven...
Directly or indirectly, Jaxon’s reputation as an ITK has suggested this unproven tidbit is true.

At the moment, there is a lot of “my opinion is worth more than yours just because” on this forum.

I like Jaxons a lot but take MM’s point here

Thank you skeptic,
You've managed to articulate my point exactly and much better than I've been able to.

Jaxons has consistently given accurate information. But he is still allowed to have an opinion like all of us. Of course his comments were not "fact", they were an assessment of our presentation made by someone who is frustrated by our season.

A fact is "we will trade Stanley for pick 21".... that can be tested against whether or not Stanley gets traded for pick 21...

"the presentation was s***" is an opinion that you can take or leave

As I said, let Jaxons vent like the rest of us.. and lets move on and hope he is not sick of posting because he seems to get held to different standards than the rest of us

I didn't realize his original post on this matter was an opinion.
I understood from his post that he was stating a fact.
if he had stated it was only his opinion I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

[skeptic]

I’m going to agree with MM again here...I read it as a statement of fact as in the implication was that our presentation was not as good as those others and as such we were dismissed because of it.

Superduper, I get that you mean that even if it was meant that way that’s his opinion. I take that point too. The post in question seemed to imply that it was more than that e.g. it was heard that that was the reason why.

Let me qualify this by saying that I really rate Jaxons... him and Tony are the two standout ITKs here who when the post I pay more attention attention to. Furthermore, if that was posted by Jaxons solely as an opinion, I have no issue with that either. As stated repeatedly over the last few days, unlike some of the thought police here, I have no issue with ppl posting opinions

[silverhalo]

I think Jaxons may be Molly.....let's face it, he's very well connected and close to the club.

[dragit]

I probably didn't articulate well, I'm suggesting an ITK is not someone in the inner sanctum, whereas Jaxon's offerings over the journey have had the appearance of being someone that is privi to the occasional piece of information as a result of being employed by or being close to someone in an AFL connected industry as well as being a saints person. Finey fits that description. The suggestion that his negativity and resentment has coincided around the time of his sacking and the clubs poor performance was a suggestion he is no longer privi to the occasional piece of information and hence he is now just one of us, without a clue about what happens in the inner sanctum and is bitter and twisted and free to unload as a result of the clubs poor 2018 which probably hasn't been helped due to his unemployment status

Understood, and could be correct.

I don't claim to have any real knowledge on the situation.
My whole angst in this episode is the 'acceptance as fact' the statement from Jaxons regarding 'our presentation' because he's an 'ITK'.
I just don't believe, for a number of reasons, that denigrating portrayal of our presentation to Shiel that he posted.
And I find it staggering that some posters just accept it without question.

Who are you actually talking about though?

You've thrown me under the bus as some wide eyed git that believes everything that some rando internet poster spruiks.

Connecting a few dots I would say that there is some truth in what jaxons was saying, but I don't accept anything as gospel.

Do you really think he was making up these accusations from nothing? It feels like your absolute disgust in his delivery is clouding your judgement in that there could possibly be some truth in the subject.

FWIW - I think we are embaressing, prematurely extending richo to SEVEN years, our second longest serving coach ever and also one of the worst performing coaches in the history of the sport makes us an absolute laughing stock right now and no amount of deck chair shuffling will mask this.

The proof is in the pudding, Shiel rejected our massive offer like most other stars who have moved in recent times. Whether that is because of our pitch, prospects or precarious coaching scenario... good players are steering clear despite being offered record contracts.

Jaxons was clearly venting and probably went too far, but I imagine there is absolutely some truth in what he was suggesting.

Does anyone accept jaxons posts as fact?

I doubt it.

Do people think that our presentations to prospective stars is behind other clubs?

I would say yes and our inability to attract quality players would support this belief.

[asiu]

its ok

your eyes aren't THAT far apart

[rodgerfox]

The proof is in the pudding, Shiel rejected our massive offer like most other stars who have moved in recent times. Whether that is because of our pitch, prospects or precarious coaching scenario... good players are steering clear despite being offered record contracts.

I think this narrative is a bit misleading.


Who are the star players we've gone for, and where did they end up?
Compare this to other clubs.

Fyfe, Martin, Kelly, Gaff all stayed at their own club. They didn't just reject us - they rejected all offers from all clubs and stayed.

The 15% salary cap increase had a bearing on this.

Carlisle chose us over Hawthorn.

The only other stars who have moved clubs, have chosen Richmond, Collingwood and Essendon and they've all stated that ANZAC Day and playing in front of huge crowds at the MCG is why.

So unless we find another 40000 supporters overnight and either relocate to the MCG or take over ANZAC Day, ANZAC Day eve, Queens Birthday, the season opener or Dreamtime at the G - we can't offer that.

We don't have the 'go home factor', don't have a huge supporter base to pack stadiums and don't get blockbuster games.

All we can offer is money and success.

The added 15% in the salary cap and front ended/back ended contracts has taken the sting out of the money one. An extra $200k doesn't mean as much when you're already on $800-900k a year.
The difference between $400-500k and a million bucks is a game changer. But when you're already wiping your arse with hundred dollar notes, it's less of a factor.


So there's success. Given that we suck, it's obviously not a factor. But even if we were top 4, there's still 8 clubs every year that can spruik the 'opportunity for success' thing.


THE biggest reason star players choose a club is to play in big games.
We, like most other clubs simply don't have that, and never will.


So people scratching their heads as to why we can't attract star players puzzles me.

It's obvious why.

[wally]

I agree Rodger and have been something similar.
North Melb, Foots, are in same boat.
That's why imo we have to recruit players that will make our team better even though we want A graders, sometimes
players no-one else wants.Lovett was a fail but a few others have turned themselves around.
Early draft pick and try to make a top player.

[dragit]

It's obvious why.

Agree and that's why it's important to have a coach who can get the most from our players in order to imply some form of potential future success.

Richo selling the future of the club is cringy stuff.

[rodgerfox]

It's obvious why.

Agree and that's why it's important to have a coach who can get the most from our players in order to imply some form of potential future success.

Richo selling the future of the club is cringy stuff.

It certainly wouldn't hurt. But it's not going to make a huge difference.

Tom Lynch chose Richmond because of the 'big games' and big crowds.

Treloar chose Collingwood, and Shiel and Devon Smith chose Essendon to play in ANZAC Day and other 'big games'.

No matter who our coach is, we'll never compete with that.

Clarkson couldn't get Hawthorn over the line with Smith, Shiel, Lynch - so what hope do we have? We somehow managed to get Carlisle over Hawthorn, which was a great get.