Anyone at the Sandy game?

[Linton Lodger]

Hickey had 34 possessions for the match!

When you spend all day on the ball you’re bound to pick up a few possessions.

Unless your name in Longer and you are up against Gawn.

4 Games, 3 Wins!!!!!

Max got most of he's touches playing a kick behind play on the wing!!!!!

On Hickeys AFL form, 3 wins would take 3 seasons!!!!!

I take the wins, say what you like, its irrelevant, unless your playing for second place, then play Hickledik!!!!!

Gawn got sucked into a rope a dope scenario and Billy played a big part. As Stonecold mentions, Gawn had a great game playing defensive wing. Did some great defensive work, saved them from a 5 goal defeat, but offered zilch offensively. They wore him down, every ruck contest Billy inflicted punishment and I thought broke even. Most of Gawn's hitouts landed at his feet, nullified. He was knackered by three quarter time. Also, at many times Gawn allowed others to contest stoppages in their forward half while he waited a kick behind. Win, win for us. Thank you Billy boy.

[saynta]

Someone kept tapping the ball to Viney in that final quarter.

[stonecold]

Hickey had 34 possessions for the match!

When you spend all day on the ball you’re bound to pick up a few possessions.

Unless your name in Longer and you are up against Gawn.

4 Games, 3 Wins!!!!!

Max got most of he's touches playing a kick behind play on the wing!!!!!

On Hickeys AFL form, 3 wins would take 3 seasons!!!!!

I take the wins, say what you like, its irrelevant, unless your playing for second place, then play Hickledik!!!!!

Gawn got sucked into a rope a dope scenario and Billy played a big part. As Stonecold mentions, Gawn had a great game playing defensive wing. Did some great defensive work, saved them from a 5 goal defeat, but offered zilch offensively. They wore him down, every ruck contest Billy inflicted punishment and I thought broke even. Most of Gawn's hitouts landed at his feet, nullified. He was knackered by three quarter time. Also, at many times Gawn allowed others to contest stoppages in their forward half while he waited a kick behind. Win, win for us. Thank you Billy boy.

Wow LL, that's the 'post of the year' right there, finally someone else who knows Ruckwork!!!!!

4games 3 wins!!!!

[Scollop]

Hickey had 34 possessions for the match!

When you spend all day on the ball you’re bound to pick up a few possessions.

Unless your name in Longer and you are up against Gawn.

4 Games, 3 Wins!!!!!

Max got most of he's touches playing a kick behind play on the wing!!!!!

On Hickeys AFL form, 3 wins would take 3 seasons!!!!!

I take the wins, say what you like, its irrelevant, unless your playing for second place, then play Hickledik!!!!!

Gawn got sucked into a rope a dope scenario and Billy played a big part. As Stonecold mentions, Gawn had a great game playing defensive wing. Did some great defensive work, saved them from a 5 goal defeat, but offered zilch offensively. They wore him down, every ruck contest Billy inflicted punishment and I thought broke even. Most of Gawn's hitouts landed at his feet, nullified. He was knackered by three quarter time. Also, at many times Gawn allowed others to contest stoppages in their forward half while he waited a kick behind. Win, win for us. Thank you Billy boy.

The fact is that Gawn was 'knackered' because he was working his butt off and his back, shoulders and neck were killing him because he carried a number of his team mates, and not because of his direct opponent. You say he broke even, but ALL he broke even on were the tap out and ruck work. As far as marks and possessions and impact on the game are concerned, Gawn smashed him.

Billy certainly made Gawn aware of his presence, however a few physical contests are not going to stop a star like Gawn. The win was in spite of Billy's average game not because of it. Without the efforts from our midfield and an even contribution from 20 players we would have lost

[The_Dud]

Hickey had 34 possessions for the match!

When you spend all day on the ball you’re bound to pick up a few possessions.

Unless your name in Longer and you are up against Gawn.

4 Games, 3 Wins!!!!!

Max got most of he's touches playing a kick behind play on the wing!!!!!

On Hickeys AFL form, 3 wins would take 3 seasons!!!!!

I take the wins, say what you like, its irrelevant, unless your playing for second place, then play Hickledik!!!!!

Gawn got sucked into a rope a dope scenario and Billy played a big part. As Stonecold mentions, Gawn had a great game playing defensive wing. Did some great defensive work, saved them from a 5 goal defeat, but offered zilch offensively. They wore him down, every ruck contest Billy inflicted punishment and I thought broke even. Most of Gawn's hitouts landed at his feet, nullified. He was knackered by three quarter time. Also, at many times Gawn allowed others to contest stoppages in their forward half while he waited a kick behind. Win, win for us. Thank you Billy boy.

Gawn has 8 score involvements, second only to Hogan for the Dees. Longer had 1.

[stonecold]

Hickey had 34 possessions for the match!

When you spend all day on the ball you’re bound to pick up a few possessions.

Unless your name in Longer and you are up against Gawn.

4 Games, 3 Wins!!!!!

Max got most of he's touches playing a kick behind play on the wing!!!!!

On Hickeys AFL form, 3 wins would take 3 seasons!!!!!

I take the wins, say what you like, its irrelevant, unless your playing for second place, then play Hickledik!!!!!

Gawn got sucked into a rope a dope scenario and Billy played a big part. As Stonecold mentions, Gawn had a great game playing defensive wing. Did some great defensive work, saved them from a 5 goal defeat, but offered zilch offensively. They wore him down, every ruck contest Billy inflicted punishment and I thought broke even. Most of Gawn's hitouts landed at his feet, nullified. He was knackered by three quarter time. Also, at many times Gawn allowed others to contest stoppages in their forward half while he waited a kick behind. Win, win for us. Thank you Billy boy.

Gawn has 8 score involvements, second only to Hogan for the Dees. Longer had 1.

Just read the Signature!!!!!

[takeaway]

Hickey had 34 possessions for the match!

When you spend all day on the ball you’re bound to pick up a few possessions.

Unless your name in Longer and you are up against Gawn.

4 Games, 3 Wins!!!!!

Max got most of he's touches playing a kick behind play on the wing!!!!!

On Hickeys AFL form, 3 wins would take 3 seasons!!!!!

I take the wins, say what you like, its irrelevant, unless your playing for second place, then play Hickledik!!!!!

Gawn got sucked into a rope a dope scenario and Billy played a big part. As Stonecold mentions, Gawn had a great game playing defensive wing. Did some great defensive work, saved them from a 5 goal defeat, but offered zilch offensively. They wore him down, every ruck contest Billy inflicted punishment and I thought broke even. Most of Gawn's hitouts landed at his feet, nullified. He was knackered by three quarter time. Also, at many times Gawn allowed others to contest stoppages in their forward half while he waited a kick behind. Win, win for us. Thank you Billy boy.

Totally agree. I said something similar earlier in this thread. Good tactics, obviously pre planned, because Gawn is a gun, need to curtail his effectiveness. As I stated previously, Billy let Gawn go down to our forward line and didn't follow him. He took a few grabs but that was when players did the bomb and did not shorten their gaze to a leading forward, which generally was carried out much better this week. Whenever Gawn went off, Billy normally did as well. Hickey may have adopted the tactics just as well, but not in the hit outs.

Billy crashed into Gawn quite a few times, and many of his hitouts did not go anywhere. He was definitely BOG, but not as effective as he could have been. Billy did OK, and we were ahead in the clearances when the game was won.

[Scollop]

Look, I like Billy too. I think he deserves a chance and he tried his best yesterday, but he was soundly beaten by his opponent on the day. Why don't you just say Billy is a top bloke and you like him. I'll agree with you and so will many others, but when you and his supporters post stuff defending what stonecold is saying it is absolutely ridiculous.

[To the top]

BOG

But should have done better and was played as a dill

The dills are some who contribute to this forum, obviously

[takeaway]

Look, I like Billy too. I think he deserves a chance and he tried his best yesterday, but he was soundly beaten by his opponent on the day. Why don't you just say Billy is a top bloke and you like him. I'll agree with you and so will many others, but when you and his supporters post stuff defending what stonecold is saying it is absolutely ridiculous.

Not defending Stonecold, just expressing my independent view. Wouldn't know whether Billy is a top bloke or not. He is our best option in the ruck at the moment, and the mids seem to jell with him better.

[stonecold]

Look, I like Billy too. I think he deserves a chance and he tried his best yesterday, but he was soundly beaten by his opponent on the day. Why don't you just say Billy is a top bloke and you like him. I'll agree with you and so will many others, but when you and his supporters post stuff defending what stonecold is saying it is absolutely ridiculous.

Not defending Stonecold, just expressing my independent view. Wouldn't know whether Billy is a top bloke or not. He is our best option in the ruck at the moment, and the mids seem to jell with him better.

Another great post, glad your not defending me, don't need defending!!!!!

Our mids love what Billy brings to the table and yes, he is a nice guy (just in case you were wondering), just a little laid back!!!!!

Until he crosses the white line of course!!!!!

As I keep stating, Billy is not perfect, but is by far and away our best option!!!!!

[Scollop]

Team morale is important and if Billy is preferred as the number 1 ruckman by his midfield rovers then he just has to improve as a footballer and as an athlete if he wants to keep his spot in the team. There are midfields that learn to rove to opposition rucks and our mids aren't going to get an armchair ride and consistent easy disposals from dominant taps.

If Hickey has another game where he racks up possessions and does an ok job in the ruck at Sandringham and Billy struggles in a losing team, then Billy only has himself to blame.

[stonecold]

Team morale is important and if Billy is preferred as the number 1 ruckman by his midfield rovers then he just has to improve as a footballer and as an athlete if he wants to keep his spot in the team. There are midfields that learn to rove to opposition rucks and our mids aren't going to get an armchair ride and consistent easy disposals from dominant taps.

If Hickey has another game where he racks up possessions and does an ok job in the ruck at Sandringham and Billy struggles in a losing team, then Billy only has himself to blame.

Fair enough!!!!!

I can wear that Scolly!!!!!

[Jacks Back]

From afl.com.au "It may have been worse if not for ruckman Max Gawn's sterling display, highlighted by 25 disposals (13 contested), 11 marks, 39 hit-outs, four clearances and five inside 50s."

Got 10 coaches votes. SC why don't you acknowledge them as you did when some of the ruckmen Hickey played against got a few coaches votes? Now it's all about wins that only Longer solely provided or us plebs. Talk about gobbledygook.

[Scollop]

I wonder if Billy is a fan of pilates and yoga and other agility and flexibility training

I think if he focuses on being elite with his fitness and agility, it will improve other aspects of his game. We've seen enough really good work in the ruck contests in patches from him to suggest that he can play a role. Just needs to get around the ground and have an impact with more marks and possessions

[The_Dud]

Just saw that hitouts to advantage was 11-5 Gawn’s way.

I fail to see how Billy got close to Gawn in any measurable stat. If the best thing he has going for him is he really ‘got in’ to Gawn and made him ‘earn it’, enough so that Gawn was only BOG, then that’s not good enough in my book.

[Zed]

just going back to the OP ..
Does anyone know if/how the following played ?
Goddard, Joyce, Phillips, Coffield ?

[degruch]

just going back to the OP ..
Does anyone know if/how the following played ?
Goddard, Joyce, Phillips, Coffield ?

Joyce! Haha...didn't even show up and was dropped to the seniors!

[saynta]

just going back to the OP ..
Does anyone know if/how the following played ?
Goddard, Joyce, Phillips, Coffield ?

http://www.saints.com.au/news/2018-07-0 ... w-round-13


Saints Sam Gilbert and Josh Bruce were both influential in Sandringham's upset win over the 'Borough.
Related

VFL: Hickey instrumental in upset

"I still think Minchington can be a consistent AFL performer, he just needs consistency with his body."
Aaron Hamill

Sandringham Senior Coach and St Kilda Specialist Coach Aaron Hamill has his say on the Saints’ best performers in the VFL.

Tom Hickey 59 hit-outs, 18 kicks, 16 handballs, six marks, seven tackles

Tommy had 7 clearances himself. It was his presence on the deck and in the air – he took five contested marks – so he had certainly influenced the game from a stoppage point of view, and he was able to support his defence, which was the most pleasing part of his game.



Nathan Wright (3.0) 12 kicks, four handballs, four marks, six tackles

Wrighty was really good in terms of his role with elite frontline pressure, and he showed his ability to reset and get back in and provide a really good contest at ground level. He was excellent on the back of our talls bringing the ball to ground, and he was able to convert his work.

Josh Bruce (3.1) Eight kicks, eight handballs, seven marks, two tackles

Brucey competed really well in the air for us to either win or halve the contest. Port only marked it twice in our forward 50m, which has been a bit of an Achilles Heel for us. Stemming from Brucey’s contest work, we were able to lay 28 front-half tackles, so that goes hand-in-hand with Josh’s work in the air.

Logan Austin Eight kicks, nine handballs, four marks

Logan was one of our best. Some of his positioning on Jordan Lisle, who’s their best forward, was really good, and he probably played one of his better games that I’ve seen him play. He used his man as a starting point and then went to work, and he’s developing really well. The form that he’s in now after that game will hold him in good stead.



Rowan Marshall (1.1) 13 kicks, 10 handballs, nine marks, eight tackles

Rowan’s ability to win or halve the contest was very impressive and gave our smalls some ball to go to work on. He played his part, and he’s certainly in the mix after another very good game as a forward for us.

Sam Gilbert 14 kicks, four handballs, six marks, four tackles

Gilbo is a ripper. You know what you’re going to get when you’re driving to the game – you know that from a defensive point of view, Gilbo’s going to hold you up really well and keep that stability there. To have him there is really good for the younger blokes to lean on and learn from, and I know they really enjoy playing with Gilbo.

READ: Two Saints in team of the week

Darren Minchington (2.0) 16 kicks, 9 handballs, one mark, five tackles

Meaty certainly stands out at VFL level. Some of the taps he was able to get from Tom obviously helped, but you’ve still got to have the ability to create the space and then use it, and he was quite damaging around stoppage. I still think Minchington can be a consistent AFL performer, he just needs consistency with his body and hopefully now he can get a good run at it.

Jack Lonie (2.1) 11 kicks, eight handballs, two marks, eight tackles

Jack’s effort and his attitude were first class, with a heap of grunt, tackles and speedwork, and his positioning around stoppage was very good. Some of his frontline positioning was as good as you’ll see from a small forward, sort of Stephen Milne stuff, and I think Jack at his best can certainly add value to the AFL program.

WATCH: Highlights v Melbourne

Nathan Freeman 10 kicks, 10 handballs, four marks, five tackles

It’s just good to see Freeza get a bit of continuity. He took two contested marks and he was pretty clever in his positioning, but his ability to read the cues and get back and support was really good. He’s improving, there’s no doubt about that, and we think he can go, so who knows what the back of the season will hold for him.

Ed Phillips (1.0) Nine kicks, 11 handballs, three marks, five tackles

Ed played wing all day, basically doing what he was doing at AFL level in terms of running the lanes for us and getting back. He’d be the first to admit that he let himself down against Williamstown, so for him to respond like that was pleasing. If he keeps absorbing information and learning, it’ll hold him in good stead.

[takeaway]

Just saw that hitouts to advantage was 11-5 Gawn’s way.

I fail to see how Billy got close to Gawn in any measurable stat. If the best thing he has going for him is he really ‘got in’ to Gawn and made him ‘earn it’, enough so that Gawn was only BOG, then that’s not good enough in my book.

I don't think Billy would have matched Gawn in any stat that is measured. Gawn beat him on the day, and was BOG. Gawn knew he was in a contest though.

I am fascinated by the obsession with stats - what exactly are hitouts to advantage - does that mean that the ruckman that won the tap sent it directly to his player and they went forward? Or simply put it to the advantage of his player(s) but they lost possession and the other team went forward. Or Both? Only 16 hitouts to advantage compared to 80 odd hitouts overall in the game vs Melb? Is that a normal ratio for a game? If so, doesn't mean much, as with a lot of "stats". I reckon analysing stats produced by the media gives no more than 20% value in analysing a game, the rest is actually watching the game, and taking heed of issues not recorded (by the media), such as player movement, blocking, leading patterns, zoning etc. That is the realm of the coaching team.

The only stat that really matters is the scoreboard result.

[parkeysainter]

#Hickey will probably come in for Longer after that performance.
#Austin or Goddard in for Brown.
#Bruce in for Battle.
#Webster or Minchington in for Weller.

[sunsaint]

Longer stays in for the PA game
Paddy Ryder is ripe for the picking and will be nothing like Gawn

[Zed]

just going back to the OP ..
Does anyone know if/how the following played ?
Goddard, Joyce, Phillips, Coffield ?

Joyce! Haha...didn't even show up and was dropped to the seniors!

Oops had a Barry Hall brain fade .. meant to say Logan Austin not Joyce !!

[The_Dud]

Just saw that hitouts to advantage was 11-5 Gawn’s way.

I fail to see how Billy got close to Gawn in any measurable stat. If the best thing he has going for him is he really ‘got in’ to Gawn and made him ‘earn it’, enough so that Gawn was only BOG, then that’s not good enough in my book.

I don't think Billy would have matched Gawn in any stat that is measured. Gawn beat him on the day, and was BOG. Gawn knew he was in a contest though.

I am fascinated by the obsession with stats - what exactly are hitouts to advantage - does that mean that the ruckman that won the tap sent it directly to his player and they went forward? Or simply put it to the advantage of his player(s) but they lost possession and the other team went forward. Or Both? Only 16 hitouts to advantage compared to 80 odd hitouts overall in the game vs Melb? Is that a normal ratio for a game? If so, doesn't mean much, as with a lot of "stats". I reckon analysing stats produced by the media gives no more than 20% value in analysing a game, the rest is actually watching the game, and taking heed of issues not recorded (by the media), such as player movement, blocking, leading patterns, zoning etc. That is the realm of the coaching team.

The only stat that really matters is the scoreboard result.

I agree with you about hitouts, I think they’re a bit of a rubbish stats. I would say 75% of ruck contests are basically 50/50, with the ball spilling out without much direction, yet they still award a hitout to one of the ruckman. Hit outs to advantage on the other hand are a damaging stat, I would say it’s a hitout that leads directly to teammate resulting in a possession, a clearance or goal, such as the end of the GC game.

I think the whole “knew he was in a contest” is complete crap. He was BOG by a mile, if he went that well every week he’d waltz in to a Brownlow medal. “Knowing he was in a contest” is pointless if it fails to curtail his influence on the game. I’d rather a ruckman who can influence the game than one who can run into the other guy a lot with no result. A perfect example was in the last quarter when Gawn took a mark right on the goal line preventing a goal, Longer was right there but unable to impact the contest at all, even enough to just body Gawn out and Shepard it through. So much for physical presence.

Gawn impacted in defence (7 intercept marks, 3 rebound 50s), the ruck/middle (11 hitout to advantage, 4 clearances) and attack (8 score involvements, 5 inside 50s). He had 20 effective disposals to Longer’s 4.

In contrast, Longer had 5 hit outs to advantage, 0 rebound 50s, 0 inside 50s, 2 clearances and 1 score involvement.

That is nearly as big a flogging as you will see in football today, and I would say a bigger discrepancy than Hickey has had in any game this year.

You cannot have a AFL footballer playing on the ball who only gets 4 effective touches in a game.

And yes, winning is the most important stat, but you can’t use that to justify a pathetic performance. It’s like saying Nathan Ablett was a better player that Roo because he won a premiership, which is the number 1 goal in the game.

[To the top]

There are some interesting comments on the VFL performance and to me the most positive were the comment on Hickey pleasing because he got back to support his defence so obviously a response by the player to an instruction plus the comment on Freeman and the back end of the season being exciting because they reckon he can go