Nettlefold on SEN

[Johnny Member]

Have a squiz at Wikipedia for Barry Hall's record. They list 5 'controversial' incidents - and only 1 was from his time at the Saints.

Does the press blame Sydney's culture for him going off the rails?

[cwrcyn]

I'm sick of the culture of our football club being put into question when one idiot does something stupid. Heath Scotland's misdemeanors are not representative of Carlton's culture. Dustin Martin's 'white line fever' does not represent Richmond's culture. Buddy Franklin's interesting social life is not representative of Hawthorn's culture.

Yet, one of our guys does something stupid and it's a culture issue. What about the culture of Riewoldt, Hayes, Blake, Dal Santo, Schneider, Roberton, Gwilt, & co?

No, we have to be defined by the actions of one idiot, because of course, if there is one idiot in your club, they must all be idiots. Just logical, isn't it?

The club should just hang the idiots out to dry, and let them take the heat for their stupid actions. Maybe then then idiots might just pull their heads in, instead of sitting back while the club's management have to be grilled by the media and put up explanations for something they were not a part of.

And while we're talking about idiots, some clubs just get the royal treatment from the media when everyone knows that there are genuine cultural issues within those clubs. Nathan Buckley is trying to deal with all that at the moment, and everyone in Perth knew about the crap that was going on at West Coast a few years ago before the shite hit the fan. It seems that winning a premiership means your culture is never or rarely questioned by the media, because as we've found out lately, most in the media are groupies who love that smell of success, even when it only just masks the stench of questionable behaviour.

If we had won premierships during the explosion of media around football (late 1980s onwards), then our culture would rarely come into question. North Melbourne had some animals in their team during the 90s, but premierships turned those guys into successful and admirable footballers.

Illusions, illusions, illusions..........................

[cwrcyn]

Bigmart wrote

'Off Field culture has always been in the bottom few in the AFL! Not sure why? I suppose you learn from mentors, so culture is passed on??'

Sorry Bigmart, but that's just nonsense. I know someone who worked at the sports desk the Herald Sun for quite a few years during the 90s and into the early 2000s , and believe me, everything that St Kilda has been blamed for can be said for every other team, and in many cases those clubs were far worse than our club. It's just easy to target St Kilda because we were a failure in the 80s and had the biggest disco in town. The reputation just stuck and is regurgitated by lazy journalists ad nauseum. Off field, there are many clubs who have had worse records than us. Every club has their dickheads and every club has had to deal with unsavoury and difficult characters and incidents. Rich and powerful clubs have been able to pay plenty of 'shut-up' money over the years.

It would be extremely naive to believe otherwise.

We are no worse than the rest, and I could argue the point that at many times we've been better behaved than a lot of others.

[fingers]

Every workplace, club, school, street, suburb, city, country, religion.... Has a culture...

They way things are done and why...

I think you'd find the practises at most AFL clubs are similar.... But the culture of performance varies greatly...

Ask Aaron Hamill about what he noticed when he first came to StK, or Fraser.... Or Barry Hall kor Plugga visa versa

Our onfield culture improved greatly under GT, and went north again under Ross... Our Off Field culture has always been in the bottom few in the AFL! Not sure why? I suppose you learn from mentors, so culture is passed on??

If you think culture is not important at footy clubs, you making excuses for a poor culture

This

[suss]

Bigmart wrote

'Off Field culture has always been in the bottom few in the AFL! Not sure why? I suppose you learn from mentors, so culture is passed on??'

Sorry Bigmart, but that's just nonsense. I know someone who worked at the sports desk the Herald Sun for quite a few years during the 90s and into the early 2000s , and believe me, everything that St Kilda has been blamed for can be said for every other team, and in many cases those clubs were far worse than our club. It's just easy to target St Kilda because we were a failure in the 80s and had the biggest disco in town. The reputation just stuck and is regurgitated by lazy journalists ad nauseum. Off field, there are many clubs who have had worse records than us. Every club has their dickheads and every club has had to deal with unsavoury and difficult characters and incidents. Rich and powerful clubs have been able to pay plenty of 'shut-up' money over the years.

It would be extremely naive to believe otherwise.

We are no worse than the rest, and I could argue the point that at many times we've been better behaved than a lot of others.

Carey & North in the 90s? Premierships gloss over a lot...

[gringo]

Or is it that the clubs with less money and less history are more desperate to keep their stars and tolerate more bad behaviour.

[cwrcyn]

No.

Just look at recent years

See Collingwood - Brodie Holland, Alan Didak, Dayne Beams, Ben Johnson, Heath Shaw, Dane Swan, to name a few. Success buys you impunity.

West Coast - Ben Cousins, Daniel Kerr, Daniel Chick, Fletcher, Mainwaring.

Plenty tolerated at those clubs, with some serious s*** going on for quite a while.

Understand the media. There is plenty that does not get reported in all forms of news, and sports news is no different.

IN the last 10 years no St Kilda player has bashed anyone. It's happened at other clubs, but apparently it has nothing to do with their culture, and I would say that's correct. Individual players with some anger issues. If one of our players bashed someone, it would, according to the media, be a reflection of our culture.

If one of your extended family members gets caught drink driving, do we label your entire family as drunks and criminals? I think not.

[saintspremiers]

Perception is reality.

Our media team is the worst in the league. It's their job to get more favorable media

[joffaboy]

Perception is reality.

Our media team is the worst in the league. It's their job to get more favorable media

And how do you do that when idiots are setting fire to dwarfs?

[markp]

He didnt speak very well at all. Rambled on really.

I must admit , I dont subscribe to this whole "culture" rubbish.

I see the brisbane lions thing disappeared quickly, as do things at other clubs.

The whole culture thing doesnt come from the club, it comes from the press. We are perceived by the whole football club as being "only Stkilda", we can be
pushed around , dragged through the mud over stuff that quickly disappears at other clubs.

It sells papers, what have the saints done now.

Culture is a myth, invented by the press to sell papers, and the public fall for it everytime.
We need someone who can make things disappear quickly like Eddie Mcquire does.
Seriously, how can Didak still be at the club getting a game after being with a murder hours before he committed murder. And the club has their own "rat pack".
Tryining to change the culture from with in the club is impossible, because the "culture" is determined by the rest of the football world.

The players need to concentrate on playing footy, the admin need to concentrate on administering the club.

I really am sick of hearing that we have a culture that goes back to the party boys of the 80"s. It is utter rubbish.

CJ did a dumb thing, so did daniel rich. And so did Fev when he was at Brisbane, oh god it must be brisbane's "culture".

As Finey said the other night part of this "culture" crap is

A player who never played a second of football with our club
A girl who admitted she lied
A couple of photos taken by boys on a trip
A dumb prank by a drunk player, that got turned in to a hate crime, but would not have got a mention if the guy wasnt a dwarf
Players breaking curfew on a training camp.

My advise to the players, put your heads down and train hard. Look at Port Adelaide. Their season started last year with awful circumstances, they worked hard, got fit
and look where they are. Hard work guys, and while you are working hard , there is nothing for the media to write about.

Culture smulture

Good post.

Tryining to change the culture from with in the club is impossible, because the "culture" is determined by the rest of the football world.

But disagree with this.

Yes culture is a myth and a construct, in large part told and retold by those on the outside, but not entirely determined from the outside.

A good organisation will seize and drive (or remould or transform if required) the narrative of their own myth.

Perhaps Nettlefold/the club is attempting this by seemingly going above and beyond on this issue and proclaiming a line has been drawn, rather than trying to downplay or explain it away.

There's no point pretending we don't have an image problem, or that this incident is not at very least a PR nightmare. Nor can we pretend or deny the existence of a certain (poor) historic attitude towards the club.

It's up to the club to create and drive a narrative where all that is long behind us, and the best way to make that happen is to fervently avoid all such incidences (even more so than other clubs), put plenty of positive stories out there, and ideally win some flags.

[fingers]

I really don't get this "culture is a myth" thing.

Can anyone explain it to me.

Not having a go at you Markp - just yours was the most recent post on the topic.

[stinger]

I really don't get this "culture is a myth" thing.

Can anyone explain it to me.

Not having a go at you Markp - just yours was the most recent post on the topic.

i saw that when they were getting stuck into zac dawson for his childish girlish slaps at the weekend...he was constantly referred to as the former saint......

[markp]

I really don't get this "culture is a myth" thing.

Can anyone explain it to me.

Not having a go at you Markp - just yours was the most recent post on the topic.

As in it's ultimately an invented story... based on historical perceptions, perhaps with only the thinnest thread of truth.

Look at how the myth of the EFC's culture has changed, and how desperately the narrative has been contested over... #whateverittakes

Or the myth of being a citizen of one country over another.... what's 'un-Australian', and what are 'Aussie' traits/values.